Love this board..

olb31

I love posting and love discussing cards and grading, but my last sub has really turned me off. Giving 4's and 5's to 1980's cards that are nearly perfectly centered, sharp corners, no print dots, back centered, essentially zero visable issues, makes no sense. I have 4's at home and they have very visable issues. My last few subs have been almost totally worthless and this 1980's sub was truly worthless. Pissed away $1800 for someone to tell me a pack pulled 1987 card is a 6 or 7. i have graded over 20,000 cards over the last 16 years, and this one was the coup de gras.

The grading consistency has changed at least for some of us and I guess this is the plan. Remove the average graders and prop up the Sharp guys, so they make the money.

BBBrkrr

I feel you, man.

After my 80s Specials were returned I'd decided never to use PSA on anything from the 80s anymore. The cost of grading vs. what cards sell for makes it impossible financially when the grading is like it is.

Now that prices are dropping on the 70s stuff it won't be long before some of those later years won't be worth it either.

gemint

Sorry for your loss. I've stopped submitting as well after 20+ years and 20,000+ vintage cards submitted. I'm just hoarding high grade raw at this point hoping for a realignment in the TPG's at some point. I'm sure if I was submitting Pokemon, I'd still be happy with the results as I'd be in PSA's business sweetspot. I just think vintage doesn't matter to them anymore.

handyman

!




![]

gemint

Beautiful cards!

1948_Swell_Robinson

Very sorry to hear you got hammered on that. Might not be the best time to send those in.

Condition matters, but it is getting harder and harder to see why anyone would shell out 100X more money for a 10 when an 8 looks just as good to the naked eye.

The old saying, "Buy the card, not the holder" always rings true, and unfortunately in this case there will be a buyer very happy to have your cards at a low price.

It is possible that one day it is the subject(player), beauty, and scarcity of the card that will be the biggest determining factor for value or demand...rather than someone's opinion that determines an 8 or 10.

I can buy a PSA 8 Upper Deck Griffey for $70 and will look just as good as a 10 and save $1,700. A million of them are out there and 900,000 of them will look super sharp and pristine to the naked eye.

I can buy a PSA 8 Donruss Don Mattingly for $50 and will look just as good as 10 and save $3,000

Do that for one or two other modern cards and you have four great looking modern cards that nobody can tell the difference in hand between an 8 or 10, and then you also have enough for a low grade(but still decent looking) early 20's Caramel Ruth or a '51 Bowman Mantle rookie, etc ,etc...rinse and repeat.

RonSportscards

@olb31 said:
I love posting and love discussing cards and grading, but my last sub has really turned me off. Giving 4's and 5's to 1980's cards that are nearly perfectly centered, sharp corners, no print dots, back centered, essentially zero visable issues, makes no sense. I have 4's at home and they have very visable issues. My last few subs have been almost totally worthless and this 1980's sub was truly worthless. Pissed away $1800 for someone to tell me a pack pulled 1987 card is a 6 or 7. i have graded over 20,000 cards over the last 16 years, and this one was the coup de gras.

The grading consistency has changed at least for some of us and I guess this is the plan. Remove the average graders and prop up the Sharp guys, so they make the money.

Hopefully you'll post some of your cards you thought you got questionable grades.

I'm in the minority as my '80s sub went OK for the most part. (It was my '60s cards that got hammered in the vintage sub)
Some I thought were better than the grade given, especially the "extra scrutiny" cards like the Randy Johnson rookie, the Nolan Ryan and Pete Rose cards, but most were "average" HOFers and low POP cards, so those did mostly as expected.

As a Penguin collector, I saw this recently graded PSA8 card on ebay....

....and wonder how in the world it got an 8.
The print blob and the line(scratch?) are on the card, not the case, and very obvious.
Per the PSA8 definition, this card is not "a 9 at first glance" and the printing imperfection, I would say is more than "minor".
Meanwhile some of us are getting hammered with "INVISIBLE" surface issues and getting 4s and 5s.

thedutymon11

@gemint said:
Sorry for your loss. I've stopped submitting as well after 20+ years and 20,000+ vintage cards submitted (About the same as you). I'm just hoarding high grade raw at this point hoping for a realignment in the TPG's at some point, but that's NEVER gonna happen.. Although I appreciate the Positive spin on PSA right now I think that is wish full thinking for losers, They have actually managed to destroy their current Business model, situation, reputation, and limited actually reality, Simply, You All Are LOSERS . I think most of you are wrong about about a PSA's return to Glory....by the policy's they are now implementing, my rough and tough results have been out of about 300-700 Vintage Cards subbed in the last 2 months to PSA. I'm sure if I was submitting Poke-mon or Modern Cards I would be looking at 9's and GEM10's. , This is the something that irritated me most about the Current Vintage Non & Sports Cards and Comics with CGC.

it amazes me that these Sellers are selling items for 100's if not thousands $$ cards & Comics I can barely get $5 books for!

WHAT THE FUDK
Most of these Auction houses are selling these items, with the current Hype mostly, Over Graded Modern that look good and are worth CRAPOLA!, priced to be (No Real Clue as to Value) with the results as I'd be in PSA's business sweetspot over recharging $$$$ Cards that in 6 months you will not be able to unload at 1/5th what you paid for it!!!!!. I just think vintage doesn't matter to them anymore. Its all about the Modern which in as little as weeks to maybe a couple of months should be valued about 10-20% what you paid for it!

Remember that Kobe or Jordan Card that you spent $400 for I just saw at my LCS in a little better shape for $4.99. That's a very Valid example

Thanks

Neil

olb31

i received 3 PSA 6's on three 1989 Topps tiffany traded Nolan ryan's. All three were bought from three separate people over a two year span. all 3 had near perfect centering ( i would say at least 9 centering). Black back were nearly perfectly centered and not one white chip on the borders. Corners all sharp.

So how can they all grade exactly the same thing if they aren't 9's? a 1989 PSA 6 should have a very visable issue. Apparently all three had exactly the same issue, the GRADER!!!

handyman

At least they didn’t Give you a 5. Sorry to hear it. Wish we all could understand the new process

olb31

@gemint said:
Sorry for your loss. I've stopped submitting as well after 20+ years and 20,000+ vintage cards submitted. I'm just hoarding high grade raw at this point hoping for a realignment in the TPG's at some point. I'm sure if I was submitting Pokemon, I'd still be happy with the results as I'd be in PSA's business sweetspot. I just think vintage doesn't matter to them anymore.

There might be a lot of truth to this statement. Beckett, CGC, SGC, 4 Sharp, COMC all in Chantilly. No PSA.

BBBrkrr

@olb31 said:

@gemint said:
Sorry for your loss. I've stopped submitting as well after 20+ years and 20,000+ vintage cards submitted. I'm just hoarding high grade raw at this point hoping for a realignment in the TPG's at some point. I'm sure if I was submitting Pokemon, I'd still be happy with the results as I'd be in PSA's business sweetspot. I just think vintage doesn't matter to them anymore.

There might be a lot of truth to this statement. Beckett, CGC, SGC, 4 Sharp, COMC all in Chantilly. No PSA.

Wow. That tells you there's blood in the water and those companies think there's an opening to increase their market share at PSA's expense. That definitely makes you wonder about the future reputations of these grading companies and whether or not the traditional preference of collectors stays the same into the future.

If PSA has decided vintage is not the market they want to focus on they are 100% communicating that. It bums me out if that's the case since almost my entire PC is PSA. I do not want to see them lose their prestige value because PSA decided to give up the market with horrible grading on vintage.

gemint

Neil, why did you misquote me? Please modify your post to correct what I said.

RonSportscards

@olb31 said:
i received 3 PSA 6's on three 1989 Topps tiffany traded Nolan ryan's. All three were bought from three separate people over a two year span. all 3 had near perfect centering ( i would say at least 9 centering). Black back were nearly perfectly centered and not one white chip on the borders. Corners all sharp.

So how can they all grade exactly the same thing if they aren't 9's? a 1989 PSA 6 should have a very visable issue. Apparently all three had exactly the same issue, the GRADER!!!

The other issue: Nolan Ryan.
He's on the "extra scrutiny" list which apparently means lower the grade by 2.
I subbed 4 different player cards from the same year/company that I thought all had a strong chances at 10's.
3 were 9s and the Ryan was a 7.

olb31

ron, you probably hit on something.

coolstanley

Sorry to hear your pain. Learned my lesson 14 years ago. Been happy ever since(sending to other grading companies).

JolleyWrencher

@RonSportscards said:

@olb31 said:
i received 3 PSA 6's on three 1989 Topps tiffany traded Nolan ryan's. All three were bought from three separate people over a two year span. all 3 had near perfect centering ( i would say at least 9 centering). Black back were nearly perfectly centered and not one white chip on the borders. Corners all sharp.

So how can they all grade exactly the same thing if they aren't 9's? a 1989 PSA 6 should have a very visable issue. Apparently all three had exactly the same issue, the GRADER!!!

The other issue: Nolan Ryan.
He's on the "extra scrutiny" list which apparently means lower the grade by 2.
I subbed 4 different player cards from the same year/company that I thought all had a strong chances at 10's.
3 were 9s and the Ryan was a 7.

Suprisingly I hot 2 10s on my Nolans but they were early 90s to be fair. I received an 8 on an early 80s which I agreed with.

JoeBanzai

@JolleyWrencher said:

@RonSportscards said:

@olb31 said:
i received 3 PSA 6's on three 1989 Topps tiffany traded Nolan ryan's. All three were bought from three separate people over a two year span. all 3 had near perfect centering ( i would say at least 9 centering). Black back were nearly perfectly centered and not one white chip on the borders. Corners all sharp.

So how can they all grade exactly the same thing if they aren't 9's? a 1989 PSA 6 should have a very visable issue. Apparently all three had exactly the same issue, the GRADER!!!

The other issue: Nolan Ryan.
He's on the "extra scrutiny" list which apparently means lower the grade by 2.
I subbed 4 different player cards from the same year/company that I thought all had a strong chances at 10's.
3 were 9s and the Ryan was a 7.

Suprisingly I hot 2 10s on my Nolans but they were early 90s to be fair. I received an 8 on an early 80s which I agreed with.

A couple of years ago I ripped a box of 1986 Topps rack packs and got a perfect Ryan. Absolutely flawless.
Got a 9. Turned a $1,000.00 card into a $100.00 card.
Should have hung onto it, but didn't.

82FootballWaxMemorys

@RonSportscards said:

@olb31 said:
i received 3 PSA 6's on three 1989 Topps tiffany traded Nolan ryan's. All three were bought from three separate people over a two year span. all 3 had near perfect centering ( i would say at least 9 centering). Black back were nearly perfectly centered and not one white chip on the borders. Corners all sharp.

So how can they all grade exactly the same thing if they aren't 9's? a 1989 PSA 6 should have a very visable issue. Apparently all three had exactly the same issue, the GRADER!!!

The other issue: Nolan Ryan.
He's on the "extra scrutiny" list which apparently means lower the grade by 2.
I subbed 4 different player cards from the same year/company that I thought all had a strong chances at 10's.
3 were 9s and the Ryan was a 7.

In a game rigged by the house, the only way to win is not to play.

olb31

Sending off my first SGC submission today. I will let you know how long it takes. 26 cards 1958 - 1984.

detroitfan2

@olb31 said:
Sending off my first SGC submission today. I will let you know how long it takes. 26 cards 1958 - 1984.

You'll have them by November 20th at the latest. Good luck!

olb31

@detroitfan2 said:

@olb31 said:
Sending off my first SGC submission today. I will let you know how long it takes. 26 cards 1958 - 1984.

You'll have them by November 20th at the latest. Good luck!

thanks.

olb31

Sent an email to SGC about a card i forgot to list on my submission (i actually forgot to put it the card into submission at all) and they email me back within 1 minute. Nice!!!

UlyssesExtravaganza

@olb31 said:

@detroitfan2 said:

@olb31 said:
Sending off my first SGC submission today. I will let you know how long it takes. 26 cards 1958 - 1984.

You'll have them by November 20th at the latest. Good luck!

thanks.

Dont want to get you too optimistic but my package just was handed to me by the Fed Ex guy about an hour ago. (could not abstain from the $9 per card special) I have sent two orders in in the last several months. Both times I shipped 2-day and it was recorded as received 3 days later. They say its 5 to 10 day turnaround but both of mine leaned to the quicker side of that when it came to grades popping. I think 5 and 6 days. I feel like both times I had the package in hand 2 days later.

Then as someone else mentioned, I had sent them an email and we exchanged responses about 4 times in 3 business hours. Response was almost immediate.

Best of luck with your submission.

Sanddollar

The inconsistency is consistent and the consistency is inconsistent.
We've got that going for us.

olb31

They must just open and grade right when they get them. But overall just grades that make sense, is all that matters.

RonSportscards

@olb31 said:
Sent an email to SGC about a card i forgot to list on my submission (i actually forgot to put it the card into submission at all) and they email me back within 1 minute. Nice!!!

@UlyssesExtravaganza said:
Then as someone else mentioned, I had sent them an email and we exchanged responses about 4 times in 3 business hours. Response was almost immediate.

I used the form on SGC's contact page, but apparently they just ignore those as I never got a response.
I guess I'll have to try emailing them.

edit to add
I emailed them and they responded in 20 minutes. I emailed back more info and then they responded in 10 minutes. Impressive, but lesson learned, don't bother with their contact form, just go straight to emailing.

BBBrkrr

@UlyssesExtravaganza said:

@olb31 said:

@detroitfan2 said:

@olb31 said:
Sending off my first SGC submission today. I will let you know how long it takes. 26 cards 1958 - 1984.

You'll have them by November 20th at the latest. Good luck!

thanks.

Dont want to get you too optimistic but my package just was handed to me by the Fed Ex guy about an hour ago. (could not abstain from the $9 per card special) I have sent two orders in in the last several months. Both times I shipped 2-day and it was recorded as received 3 days later. They say its 5 to 10 day turnaround but both of mine leaned to the quicker side of that when it came to grades popping. I think 5 and 6 days. I feel like both times I had the package in hand 2 days later.

Then as someone else mentioned, I had sent them an email and we exchanged responses about 4 times in 3 business hours. Response was almost immediate.

Best of luck with your submission.

That’s insane. It’s nice to read about any company in today’s world that is so committed to customer service and relationships. Brilliant on their part for sure.

olb31

Sent the cards to SGC october 30, they received them november 2 and shipped them back to me today november 14. Awesome.

Now for the grades. I punched out about 15 or so from the PSA holders. most came back about the same grade or 1 lower. the other 3 - 5 or so turned out decent. Swann rookie from 6 to 8. 1974 ryan 6 to 7.5, 1974 seaver 6 to 8. 1960 Unitas bccg 9 to 7. (awesome there). I did get 2 nice grades on some old ones.

Bought a 1958 aaron at the chantilly show a month ago for $185 and got a 6.5. Bought a 1959 mays for $75 last year and got a 5. So the unitas, aaron, mays and swann turned out really the good,. The rest were just ok. nothing to get to exited about. did like the fast turn around though.

BBBrkrr

@olb31 said:
Sent the cards to SGC october 30, they received them november 2 and shipped them back to me today november 14. Awesome.

Now for the grades. I punched out about 15 or so from the PSA holders. most came back about the same grade or 1 lower. the other 3 - 5 or so turned out decent. Swann rookie from 6 to 8. 1974 ryan 6 to 7.5, 1974 seaver 6 to 8. 1960 Unitas bccg 9 to 7. (awesome there). I did get 2 nice grades on some old ones.

Bought a 1958 aaron at the chantilly show a month ago for $185 and got a 6.5. Bought a 1959 mays for $75 last year and got a 5. So the unitas, aaron, mays and swann turned out really the good,. The rest were just ok. nothing to get to exited about. did like the fast turn around though.

Were the PSAs that you cracked a recent grade or older?

just checked on the 2 subs I did for the 60s Special. About a week over 60 days from when it shows Arrived and still in Grading. Not good for me.

olb31

most of the psa's were recent. swann, ryan, seaver were recent. the unitas was actually a bccg 8, not 9. so to get a 7 was really awesome.

craig44

I have submitted to both PSA and SGC within the last 5 months.

PSA: turnaround was 3.5 months. I cracked a Marino rookie out of a PRO holder (yes, I know, PRO) I had bought it 20 years ago. it was a 9.0 PRO. I measured it and it was full sized. it came back a PSA 9!! I was very happy with that one.

SGC: turnaround was less than 2 weeks! very fast/responsive. I got the grades I had expected mostly. the only surprise was a 50 Bowmam Otto Graham rookie I had purchased many years ago. I thought it may get a 2 or 3 and it came back a 5.5

I think I will be grading all of my PC stuff with SGC from now on. very fast, and on my one order there were no mysterious low grades.

Cakes

@craig44 said:
I have submitted to both PSA and SGC within the last 5 months.

PSA: turnaround was 3.5 months. I cracked a Marino rookie out of a PRO holder (yes, I know, PRO) I had bought it 20 years ago. it was a 9.0 PRO. I measured it and it was full sized. it came back a PSA 9!! I was very happy with that one.

SGC: turnaround was less than 2 weeks! very fast/responsive. I got the grades I had expected mostly. the only surprise was a 50 Bowmam Otto Graham rookie I had purchased many years ago. I thought it may get a 2 or 3 and it came back a 5.5

I think I will be grading all of my PC stuff with SGC from now on. very fast, and on my one order there were no mysterious low grades.

Great hit on the Graham rookie. It seems like the older, forgotten greats like Sammy Baugh, Otto Graham, etc. are just not getting their due as ALL TIME GREATS like they should be.

olb31

The turn around time is definitely a huge plus. The grades are mostly comparable. I had 2 minuses, 1 didn't grade, 2 stayed the same, and 10 went up at least .5.

BBBrkrr

@olb31 said:
The turn around time is definitely a huge plus. The grades are mostly comparable. I had 2 minuses, 1 didn't grade, 2 stayed the same, and 10 went up at least .5.

That's pretty good return on the grades. 2/3 went up a grade. Not bad, and would seem to make it worth it based on comps between companies.

olb31

Yes. I will send in another one to SGC next Wednesday and see how they come back. The Tiffany's keep getting me. I can't get one graded higher than an 8.

olb31

Look at the pop report for the SGC 7 Unitas I received. pretty stoked about it.

1951WheatiesPremium

@olb31

Just wanted to drop a note and say thanks for sharing this information.

Very helpful stuff.

olb31

No problem. other people have done the same for us also, just thought a bit of info would help everyone.

80sOPC

The SGC 9 dollar special referenced, where do they post these? I didn’t and haven’t seen that one.

RonSportscards

@80sOPC said:
The SGC 9 dollar special referenced, where do they post these? I didn’t and haven’t seen that one.

It's on SGCs home page.

80sOPC

Oh, TCG, was thinking sports.

craig44

@Cakes said:

@craig44 said:
I have submitted to both PSA and SGC within the last 5 months.

PSA: turnaround was 3.5 months. I cracked a Marino rookie out of a PRO holder (yes, I know, PRO) I had bought it 20 years ago. it was a 9.0 PRO. I measured it and it was full sized. it came back a PSA 9!! I was very happy with that one.

SGC: turnaround was less than 2 weeks! very fast/responsive. I got the grades I had expected mostly. the only surprise was a 50 Bowmam Otto Graham rookie I had purchased many years ago. I thought it may get a 2 or 3 and it came back a 5.5

I think I will be grading all of my PC stuff with SGC from now on. very fast, and on my one order there were no mysterious low grades.

Great hit on the Graham rookie. It seems like the older, forgotten greats like Sammy Baugh, Otto Graham, etc. are just not getting their due as ALL TIME GREATS like they should be.

thank you! I was pleasantly surprised. I agree about the older greats. Before Montana, It had to have been Otto. Even after joe, a case could still be made for him. It seems like as time goes on, names like Graham, Unitas, Motley, Brown, Hutson etc. get pushed just a little further back. recency bias, I guess.

RonSportscards

@80sOPC said:
Oh, TCG, was thinking sports.

They have sports too, also on their home page.

CardGeek

will sgc grade signed proofs?

1951WheatiesPremium

@CardGeek said:
will sgc grade signed proofs?

I have seen them do so, yes. Provide them with quality information and evidence and they’re usually pretty receptive about creating new specs, from what I understand.

olb31

mailed in order 2 to sgc wednesday. 4 or 5 psa cut outs. 40 cards total.

olb31

Just got back order 4 from SGC. sent in 1/2 grades 1/19.

Highlights -

1990 bowman tiffany gretzky 10
1983 opc wayne gretzky 9.5 (pop 1, 2 10's ahead )
1979 Payton/Campbell 9.5 (pop 1 - none higher)
1971 Maury Wills 8
1972 Clemente 8
1973 clemente 7.5
1975 ryan 7

pop outs

a couple went from 7's to 8's but nothing big. Most I had not sent in before. Overall pretty decent sub. I sent in some 1975 Mini's that i thought were better then the grades I received, but that's it.

olb31

interesting luck. I picked up a three pack of 1973 Nolan Ryan's about 8 months ago off EBay. One wasn't worth grading. i graded the other 2 and i got an SGC 8 and an SGC 6.5 - both with fantastic centering. I paid $40 for the whole lot, unbelievable luck.

Cakes

@olb31 said:
interesting luck. I picked up a three pack of 1973 Nolan Ryan's about 8 months ago off EBay. One wasn't worth grading. i graded the other 2 and i got an SGC 8 and an SGC 6.5 - both with fantastic centering. I paid $40 for the whole lot, unbelievable luck.

Nice hit on the 73! I am curious about the1983 opc wayne gretzky 9.5 hit. Please tell me more details?

olb31

What would you like to know about the 1983 OPC Gretzky?

I just threw the clemente in without much inspection hoping to get a 7. Same with the 1973 aaron i got a 7 on. I will probably keep the clemente, at least for now.

I have posted a bunch of these on my ebay store. VTFB31. In case anyone is interested. lots of centered cards. Got a 1976 Bartkowski rookie SGC 9 didn't know what to ask.