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1964 sms cent (S) on Lincoln Chair

4022bknb4022bknb Posts: 15
edited October 15, 2023 11:33PM in Q & A Forum

Hi there, a bit confused about thinking I'm seeing an S emblem on the reverse podium chair under seated Lincoln SMS specimens. Would anyone know if that was a special touch for those? Thanks!

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    GreenstangGreenstang Posts: 914 ✭✭✭✭

    That “unique scroll work” is part of the design. Because of the small size it is probably only noticeable
    on coins that are well struck from newer dies. Your second arrow pointing behind the pillars is also part of the design.

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    4022bknb4022bknb Posts: 15

    Thank you

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    4022bknb4022bknb Posts: 15
    edited October 29, 2023 6:40PM Answer ✓

    Well, it is on its way to California after the pcgs show we had. It is under going extensive variety testing for being stuck on sms die. No one has stated it is an sms coin . What we are investigating is an sms die strike. It graded at a AU58 and it is going attn to the director to oversee the testing. Let's leave it to the ones who have proper methods of identifying this die. This die could have been Used after the specimen sets were made. Or coins could have been tossed or damaged during the set making. Technically, yes,not an SMS, but a 1964 penny found struck on an SMS die, absolutely possible. It was an exciting weekend , will update if anyone is interested😊

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    IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2023 3:39AM

    Hi - there is no "S" in that part of the design. If you see a mark that looks like an "S", that is an example of pareidolia.

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    emeraldATVemeraldATV Posts: 4,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It could be the seating section.
    Sry, I could'nt resist.
    You should call it a mint mark or a letter.
    Picture it .

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    IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2023 3:03AM

    @emeraldATV - No, that is not correct or an appropriate response to someone who is trying to learn.

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    GreenstangGreenstang Posts: 914 ✭✭✭✭

    Welcome to the forum
    Please supply a photo of the complete coin and a close up of your
    area of concern. Without them we would just be guessing.

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    Thanks

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    GreenstangGreenstang Posts: 914 ✭✭✭✭

    I guess I should have stated a clear photo. There is no way you can see the detail
    in what you provided. Cut down on the size, it is not necessary to be that large.
    Also include a photo of the complete coin.

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    I do understand that visual definition. My IQ test results were elevated due to a visual comprehension ability. I do pick up odd shapes that for whatever reason seem unusual. This did. Should I say, not an S ,but rather a unique design on the reverse? It is intriguing. Thank you for your support

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    I shall. Will update thanks

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    IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2023 4:36PM

    Additional photos are not necessary. The S shape is just an artifact of the photo due to the lighting and not a part of the design.

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    emeraldATVemeraldATV Posts: 4,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @IkesT said:
    Additional photos are not necessary. The S shape is just an artifact of the photo due to the lighting and not a part of the design.

    Spot on.
    Carry on, Bubba.

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    This is from 1964 sms specimen cent. Only showing as a reference . Is this designed to have this appearance on this coin ,or is that due to lighting and not apart of the NGC and PCGS reverse ?

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    Coin in question. Really just hoping someone was familiar with the unique scroll work under Lincoln . It's apparent.

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    IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2023 12:31AM

    @4022bknb said:
    Coin in question. Really just hoping someone was familiar with the unique scroll work under Lincoln . It's apparent.

    You have a perfectly normal business strike 1964 cent with the normal design - nothing special about it. It is worth 1 cent, so feel free to spend it.

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    Thanks, I have a free grade voucher. Think I will . Just so unique and different from my hundreds of other 1964 P cents on so many levels. Why not, I joined and have had these pcgs vouchers, don't want to spend it so no harm done. Thanks for your input . I was really just curious about the pattern on the pcgs coin . If anyone would know anything about the large S shaped pattern on their coin, I'd love to hear. Have a great day🙂

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    IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @4022bknb said:
    Thanks, I have a free grade voucher. Think I will . Just so unique and different from my hundreds of other 1964 P cents on so many levels. Why not, I joined and have had these pcgs vouchers, don't want to spend it so no harm done.

    If all you want is for PCGS to slab the coin, they will be happy do it. However, they will not call it SMS or give it any other special attribution.

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    It's free with voucher ,I'm good with that. At least that would explain the uncerculated opinion I've gotten, along with so many other die markers. Doesn't anyone ever wonder what the rest of the die was used for ? So many sets made .I assume several tossed aside due to a bad strike to achieve a perfect set , and the possibility of the remaining die being re used since the change out of dies would be around 100,000? What we do have is the opinion of a proof look, flat rim with raised sharp edges, vertical heavy grading , all die markers present ,Satin finished on a Mirrored Lincoln, and die polish markers in the correct location. I'll post the grade if anyone is interested to know why this coin is of high interest to us. It will be fun. No harm done. It's free with voucher. !

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    If she's a Philadelphia regular business strike I'll be a monkeys uncle, and I eat all the rotten bannanas he throws at me if I'm incorrect. Courage to grade at a show is free. Thank you for the positive conversation on what the scroll work entails. 🙂

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    Where did this members post go?

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    ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @4022bknb said:
    Where did this members post go?

    Once you accept their answer the answer goes to the top of the page. ;)

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    IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @4022bknb said:
    If she's a Philadelphia regular business strike I'll be a monkeys uncle, and I eat all the rotten bannanas he throws at me if I'm incorrect.

    That sounds entertaining.

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    Steven59Steven59 Posts: 8,359 ✭✭✭✭✭

    High magnification strikes again!

    "When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"

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    RelaxnRelaxn Posts: 920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sorry... It is not an SMS cent.

    Promise you... You do not have to eat rotten bananas or be a primates relative. If you do not have direct knowledge of the history of the coin.. i.e. you found it in the "Wild" it is NOT a SMS coin. Not a guess.. not a I think... A certainty.

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    GreenstangGreenstang Posts: 914 ✭✭✭✭

    Yes, please let us know the results.
    Curious to see what PCGS has to say.

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    It was a curious experience for sure. They needed it to undergo the variety rarity testing dept. Or so I understand it to be. That was not available at the next day grade event. But did a general analysis . Will be a neat discovery if all markers check out. I can't see why it's not possible for the die to have been Used again or a sample was tossed in the set making. Either way I've grown quite attached and miss it already. Lol

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    IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @4022bknb said:
    It was a curious experience for sure. They needed it to undergo the variety rarity testing dept. Or so I understand it to be. That was not available at the next day grade event. But did a general analysis . Will be a neat discovery if all markers check out. I can't see why it's not possible for the die to have been Used again or a sample was tossed in the set making. Either way I've grown quite attached and miss it already. Lol

    So what are you expecting them to say, exactly?

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    They listed as Struck on SMS Dies. Because of probable markers. Made attn to the grading team leader to make sure it is processed with this request. He wrote that up. Not me. But it has been in my quest to gain information on it. So fitting. If the dies match,I guess there is a very real possibility they could note the coin was struck on the dies. Somewhere at some point in that timeframe. I have had this coin for about 10 years. Always kept it aside from my 1964 cents. I guess they will close this chapter for me one way or another. Is it possible for a strike on remaining SMS dies? I'm told yes. Hope that answeres you repost🙂

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    IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @4022bknb said:
    They listed as Struck on SMS Dies. Because of probable markers. Made attn to the grading team leader to make sure it is processed with this request. He wrote that up. Not me. But it has been in my quest to gain information on it. So fitting. If the dies match,I guess there is a very real possibility they could note the coin was struck on the dies. Somewhere at some point in that timeframe. I have had this coin for about 10 years. Always kept it aside from my 1964 cents. I guess they will close this chapter for me one way or another. Is it possible for a strike on remaining SMS dies? I'm told yes. Hope that answeres you repost🙂

    In that case, I hope you handle disappointment well.

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    So far so good 👍

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