NEWP- 1st Specimen Carson City Morgan at PCGS

Floridafacelifter

Purchased this awesome CC Morgan in an NGC holder, crossed to PCGS and on the way to CAC!

Jacques_Loungecoque

Oh. WOW! Intriguing indeed.

Pnies20

😳

pcgscacgold

Very cool. Thanks for sharing it here.

david3142

Fabulous Morgan! Is there a backstory to this? Are there other SP Morgans out there? I do know of some branch mint proofs.

Project Numismatics

Wow - amazing eye appeal!

Would love to understand the proof vs. SP designation and how the branch mint process at Carson City for this coin differed (if at all) from the Philadelphia proof process.

What a fantastic coin!

Floridafacelifter

As with many of the very finest Morgan Dollars, this is ex-Jack Lee Collection.

Very little has come to light about this particular specimen striking- the whys and hows aren’t known to my knowledge- but clearly a very specially prepared striking and immediate preservation for it to be in such great condition nearly 140 years later.

I also own two additional SP Morgan Dollars, about which much more documentation exists:

1878-S SP65 VAM-58 CAC

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1077146/unique-survivor-1878-s-sp65-vam-58-morgan-dollar#latest

1921 Zerbe SP66+ CAC

MrEureka

I think it's really cool that the 84-CC was the 42nd coin on the NGC submission. Imagine what else might have been on the invoice!

SoCalBigMark

Jack Lee had some monsters including a 14 D cent.

RobertScotLover

Can one really count on the term used by TPG's ie Specimen when they use it so inconsistently?

MrEureka

@RobertScotLover said:
Can one really count on the term used by TPG's ie Specimen when they use it so inconsistently?

Couldn't you say the same thing about grading? Seriously.

Floridafacelifter

@RobertScotLover said:
Can one really count on the term used by TPG's ie Specimen when they use it so inconsistently?

I think Specimen is a perfectly acceptable term to use for the gray area between Proof and Mint State. This is not a traditional Proof of the era struck in Philadelphia, but it is also not a run of the mill Mint State coin struck in Carson City either.

Special care was taken in the preparation, production and preservation of this coin (as it also was with the other two SP’s in my collection). The mystery, rarity and beauty of these coins is part of the attraction for me.

The other two coins presented here are not mine- borrowed for educational purposes haha:

1884 PR67CAM

1884-CC SP67CAM

1884-CC MS67DMPL

MrEureka

@Floridafacelifter said:

@RobertScotLover said:
Can one really count on the term used by TPG's ie Specimen when they use it so inconsistently?

I think Specimen is a perfectly acceptable term to use for the gray area between Proof and Mint State. This is not a traditional Proof of the era struck in Philadelphia, but it is also not a run of the mill Mint State coin struck in Carson City either.

Special care was taken in the preparation, production and preservation of this coin..

Agreed that it's an acceptable term for "the gray area", but I think it's being used a little too freely these days. Which isn't to imply anything about your 84-CC. I haven't seen it in hand, and I'm not comfortable judging it from images.

I'll also add that the designation is less important to me than the price. Because if the price of a coin makes sense - or doesn't - who cares what they call it?

Floridafacelifter

@MrEureka said:

@Floridafacelifter said:

@RobertScotLover said:

I'll also add that the designation is less important to me than the price. Because if the price of a coin makes sense - or doesn't - who cares what they call it?

Absolutely- my first CC coin and I love it!

cheezhed

Does NGC denote "Specimen"? They did attribute "Proof".

Floridafacelifter

@cheezhed said:
Does NGC denote "Specimen"? They did attribute "Proof".

It’s fairly common to cross an NGC “Proof” to PCGS “Specimen”
Many coins considered “Proof”’ by NGC are not considered proof by PCGS but they do agree they are different and grant them the grade prefix SP

I’ve done it three times this year- with a HR $20, this coin and a CBH
My HR $20 was an NGC PR68 and is now a PCGS SP67+CAC
My 1839-O CBH was NGC PR65 and is now PCGS SP64+

MrEureka

The Dime is designated SP. The half designated PL. The Dime is a little more special than the half, so no arguments. But as far as I’m concerned, the Dime looks like the first coin off the dies, the Half looks like the third struck, and the trivial difference in production quality isn’t really meaningful to me. I’d be glad to own them both. Just a matter of the price.

jfriedm56

Simply an incredible proof!

Floridafacelifter

@MrEureka said:
The Dime is designated SP. The half designated PL. The Dime is a little more special than the half, so no arguments. But as far as I’m concerned, the Dime looks like the first coin off the dies and the Half looks like the third struck, and the trivial difference in production quality isn’t really meaningful to me. I’d be glad to own them both. Just a matter of the price.

I totally agree with you- and look at the 94-S dimes- proof?!? Hmmmmmm

We’ve strayed a bit but it’s fun-
I’ll take a 94-S dime regardless of the label, at the right price as you said!

steelielee

As Frank Barone would say "holy crap"

Morgan13

Does your 1884-CC have a wire rim?
I am only asking becasue it's not easy to spot in the images.
It's no doubt a very special coin.

Floridafacelifter

@Morgan13 said:
Does your 1884-CC have a wire rim?
I am only asking becasue it's not easy to spot in the images.
It's no doubt a very special coin.

No not really- and Happy Birthday btw!

Morgan13

Thank you!

golden

Just wow!

johnny010

Nice newp. Where did you find it?

Ffl do you sell any of your coins?

asheland

Superb!

RobertScotLover

Getting back to the use of specimen a bit too frequently these days, and my worry is that they are diluting Specimen's significance which I appreciate and value. I have a couple PCGS hollered medals that have the specimen designation, they are no where near specimen, possibly PL but that wasn't even necessary to point out. I just would like to see higher controls and more consistency. Your piece is superb, the label means little, its the coin that counts.

Floridafacelifter

@johnny010 said:
Nice newp. Where did you find it?

Ffl do you sell any of your coins?

This one found me, and yes I sell when the offer is right!

Scootersdad

Awesome coin!
I believe there were Jack Lee 1 and 2 registry sets. Was this the PCGS MS 68? Shame it lost its pedigree on the label.

tradedollarnut

The 94-S dimes are not proofs. Just early strikes.

Floridafacelifter

@tradedollarnut said:
The 94-S dimes are not proofs. Just early strikes.

Exactly- but they are in proof holders at both services

Floridafacelifter

@tradedollarnut said:
The 94-S dimes are not proofs. Just early strikes.

Bruce if I’m not mistaken you owned an 1894-S in a holder labeled as a proof. Do you think it should have been labeled MS or SP?

JRocco

Outstanding specimen !

MrEureka

BTW, we’ve being throwing around the term “specimen”, but some now say that “SP” should mean “Special Strike”. I’m not sure what PCGS’ position is on that, or if it really matters.

MrEureka

Dang. I stand corrected.

Floridafacelifter

Very happy to report she now has a green bean!

Morgan13

@Floridafacelifter said:
Very happy to report she now has a green bean!

Well deserved!