French Coins MDC auction

bidask

Went for good money !🤓

I was close but turned up with nothing !

7Jaguars

Ditto, was hoping for a couple.

Bob13

I picked up a couple modest coins for my colorful Semeuse collection. Not rare by any means but they have the look I like.
Lost a couple others though....

Picked up a couple (I think) from Gorny and Mosch as well....

MrEureka

I spent the day viewing and bidding at the sale. Very nice collection, assembled by an American collector. His dealer, Wade Hinderling, a New York dealer specializing in French coins, deserves a lot of credit for helping to build the collection. I don't think anyone else in the US could have done anywhere near as good of a job.

MrEureka

Some of today's purchases. The Barcelona piece issued under Joseph Napoleon, so included in the collection.

ELuis

^ I like that Cataluña 5 Pesetas - Have seen many and this one it is very nice. Good.

bidask

@MrEureka said:
Some of today's purchases. The Barcelona piece issued under Joseph Napoleon, so included in the collection.

Wowee

Bob13

@MrEureka - had that 1900 2 franc on my list. Nice pickup. Another coin that the PCGS true views look a heck of a lot nicer than the catalog pictures.

Boosibri

Love the Barcelona

MrEureka

@Bob13 said:
@MrEureka - had that 1900 2 franc on my list. Nice pickup. Another coin that the PCGS true views look a heck of a lot nicer than the catalog pictures.

I didn't need to look at the Trueview because I had the coin in hand, however I wouldn't have thought to bid based on the catalog picture. But in hand, the colors are much more vibrant, and I'm a fish for that sort of "almost too original" look.

OrlandoGrandefiglio

@Bob13 said:

I was underbidder on this one. And a few other sowers. I didn't chase them really.

I did end up with one of the Napoleon 1 Frs though.

This is the one graded MS63 by the 3 letter company. I was able to determine it's an old holder. Not sure how old, but we'll see when it arrives.

coinkat

sorry I was asleep at the wheel...

7Jaguars

@MrEureka said:

@Bob13 said:
@MrEureka - had that 1900 2 franc on my list. Nice pickup. Another coin that the PCGS true views look a heck of a lot nicer than the catalog pictures.

I didn't need to look at the Trueview because I had the coin in hand, however I wouldn't have thought to bid based on the catalog picture. But in hand, the colors are much more vibrant, and I'm a fish for that sort of "almost too original" look.

Yes, Andy I had marginal interest in that one as well but the catalogue pictures just did not do it for me and some of us not able to make that trip. Way to go!

pruebas

I picked this up today.

Now you may be wondering why. Good question! It goes with this that I already have.

And if you're still wondering why, well then, they both are rare "pattern" medals designed by Charles Pillet, the designer of the (Mexican) Caballito Peso. Pillet designed coins for France, Mexico, Greece, and Romania. And medals for France and Mexico. I have a small collection of the rarer pieces.

Here's another (not a pattern, but a regular issue).

pruebas

I wanted to buy this, but it wasn't to be. Struck in gold!

MrEureka

.
Two of my favorite French coins in the sale were not part of the single owner catalog. The first is an essai, without the designer's signature in the right obverse field and with other minor design differences on both sides. Previously unpublished and obviously extremely rare, if not unique, it's conceivably the first Rooster struck. The second is the finest known (66+) of an iconic and historical one year type. It sold as part of an important old collection in Monaco only last year, and was now reserved for substantially more. Regardless, I tried hard to buy them both, but came up empty handed.

pruebas

@MrEureka said:
.
Two of my favorite French coins in the sale were not part of the single owner catalog. The first is an essai, without the designer's signature in the right obverse field and with other minor design differences on both sides. Previously unpublished and obviously extremely rare, if not unique, it's conceivably the first Rooster struck. The second is the finest known (66+) of an iconic and historical one year type. It sold as part of an important old collection in Monaco only last year, and was now reserved for substantially more. Regardless, I tried hard to buy them both, but came up empty handed.

Purchased by a specialist, no doubt. Interesting that the essai doesn’t even say it’s an essai.

MrEureka

.

@pruebas said:

Purchased by a specialist, no doubt. Interesting that the essai doesn’t even say it’s an essai.

I think both of those coins have a broad enough appeal to go to a non-specialist. After all, I bid on them, and I'm hardly a specialist.

Good point about the missing "ESSAI". Do you think maybe it's not an essai, and more like a French equivalent to a Cheerios Dollar? I.e., a design that was struck for circulation, but then not approved for circulation until the design was slightly modified. The lack of a clearly special finish would tend to support that theory.

pruebas

Here is my final win of the auction. It's a French trial for Holland when French coining technology was being introduced into the Utrecht Mint in 1808 (though the piece is thought to have been struck slightly later). It's a pretty scarce piece to begin with, and I've never heard of another UNC example.

For instance, in the important Dutch collection that was just offered by Künker about 2 weeks ago (the Lodewijk S. Beth Collection, Part 1), there were several examples with various edge inscriptions, but none were UNC. The online reference at Laurens Schulman shows a silver UNC and some high-grade copper examples, but none appeared strictly UNC. Despite the carbon spots, my example is an UNC with luster.

The piece is 38mm (Rijksdaalder-sized) and has an edge inscription produced with a single-piece collar (virolle pleine) as opposed to a three-piece segmented collar (virolle brisée).

I'm probably buried in it, but it's a good addition to my collection.

MrEureka

@pruebas said:
Here is my final win of the auction. It's a French trial for Holland when French coining technology was being introduced into the Utrecht Mint in 1808 (though the piece is thought to have been struck slightly later). It's a pretty scarce piece to begin with, and I've never heard of another UNC example.

For instance, in the important Dutch collection that was just offered by Künker about 2 weeks ago (the Lodewijk S. Beth Collection, Part 1), there were several examples with various edge inscriptions, but none were UNC. The online reference at Laurens Schulman shows a silver UNC and some high-grade copper examples, but none appeared strictly UNC. Despite the carbon spots, my example is an UNC with luster.

The piece is 38mm (Rijksdaalder-sized) and has an edge inscription produced with a single-piece collar (virolle pleine) as opposed to a three-piece segmented collar (virolle brisée).

I'm probably buried in it, but it's a good addition to my collection.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say your underbidder was probably a specialist. Or drunk and on the wrong lot.

pruebas

@MrEureka said:

@pruebas said:
Here is my final win of the auction. It's a French trial for Holland when French coining technology was being introduced into the Utrecht Mint in 1808 (though the piece is thought to have been struck slightly later). It's a pretty scarce piece to begin with, and I've never heard of another UNC example.

For instance, in the important Dutch collection that was just offered by Künker about 2 weeks ago (the Lodewijk S. Beth Collection, Part 1), there were several examples with various edge inscriptions, but none were UNC. The online reference at Laurens Schulman shows a silver UNC and some high-grade copper examples, but none appeared strictly UNC. Despite the carbon spots, my example is an UNC with luster.

The piece is 38mm (Rijksdaalder-sized) and has an edge inscription produced with a single-piece collar (virolle pleine) as opposed to a three-piece segmented collar (virolle brisée).

I'm probably buried in it, but it's a good addition to my collection.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say your underbidder was probably a specialist. Or drunk and on the wrong lot.

Are you trying to tell me I’m buried? I already knew that before bidding, and I bid anyway. That either makes me foolish or crazy (or both).

And by the way, there were no other bidders, under or over!

Bob13

@MrEureka - I am guessing all of the coins were graded by the collector, not by MDC in anticipation of the sale? Have you noticed any significant change in acceptance of TPG in the world markets? As someone who isn't easily able to travel and may not have a background to know what pictures from a given auction house look like compared to in hand, it is great to have a little more assurance as to how the coin looks.

@OrlandoGrandefiglio - welcome! Be interesting to see what your coin looks like in hand.

tcollects

enjoying watching the auction...
https://www.biddr.com/auctions/gadoury/live?a=5744

MrEureka

@Bob13 said:
@MrEureka - I am guessing all of the coins were graded by the collector, not by MDC in anticipation of the sale? Have you noticed any significant change in acceptance of TPG in the world markets? As someone who isn't easily able to travel and may not have a background to know what pictures from a given auction house look like compared to in hand, it is great to have a little more assurance as to how the coin looks.

I don't know who had the collection graded, but it looked to me like the collector bought most of his coins raw and left them that way until just recently. And it looked like whatever coins he bought in holders were sold exactly as he got them.

As for the acceptance of slabs, yes, the TPGs have made a lot of progress, although it varies dramatically. Not so much based on what the coins are, but on the collector's nationality.

MrEureka

@tcollects said:
enjoying watching the auction...
https://www.biddr.com/auctions/gadoury/live?a=5744

Different auction! Here are some pics of the Gadoury auction venue:

And pics from the earlier MDC venue:

And FWIW, I don't normally take lots of touristy pics. In fact, I don't have a single picture of Long Beach on my phone, believe it or not!

bidask

@MrEureka said:

@tcollects said:
enjoying watching the auction...
https://www.biddr.com/auctions/gadoury/live?a=5744

Different auction! Here are some pics of the Gadoury auction venue:

And pics from the earlier MDC venue:

And FWIW, I don't normally take lots of touristy pics. In fact, I don't have a single picture of Long Beach on my phone, believe it or not!

Wowee looiks beautiful.

scubafuel

I can understand not wanting pics of Long Beach when those are the comparison. Great venues. Are you traveling Europe going from auction to auction? That sounds like a lot of fun!

MrEureka

@scubafuel said:
I can understand not wanting pics of Long Beach when those are the comparison. Great venues. Are you traveling Europe going from auction to auction? That sounds like a lot of fun!

I probably get to Europe for coins about 10 times a year. It's not an awful way to make a living.

joep

Bought 1 coin for 440 Euro and the mailing fee is 90 Euro. That seems a little steep.

MrEureka

@joep said:
Bought 1 coin for 440 Euro and the mailing fee is 90 Euro. That seems a little steep.

Where do you live?

Bob13

YIkes - mine too! I live in California. Last year the shipping costs from MDC were 30 euros. Talk about inflation!

MrEureka

There may be a change in the method of shipment. Weird things going on with regulations on international shipments. Governments trying to make sure bad people aren’t buying good coins, etc. Anyway, I know that my coins are coming via DHL, which probably costs MDC a lot more than $30. And I’m paying 105 euros.

pruebas

I haven’t received my MDC invoice yet. Should I be worried?

Talk about expensive shipping, my last Noonans invoices (combined 3&4 October) totaled £202 ($246). Their shipping/insurance are over the top.

bidask

Will the upcoming Bonaparte movie spark interest in French coins of this era?

MrEureka

@bidask said:
Will the upcoming Bonaparte movie spark interest in French coins of this era?

I would expect common date silver type coins in well circulated grades to temporarily shoot up 10% or more if the movie is a blockbuster. Time to load up!

Bob13

Well, the packaging was really nice!

Not sure it was 90 euros worth but this holder is great.

pruebas

Abafil holders aren’t cheap! Nice presentation!

My purchases haven’t arrived yet. Maybe next week.

neildrobertson

@pruebas said:
Abafil holders aren’t cheap! Nice presentation!

My purchases haven’t arrived yet. Maybe next week.

Whoops. Should I have not thrown mine in the trash immediately after taking the coin out?

bidask

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon

I want to see the movie coming out soon !

rec78

@pruebas said:
Here is my final win of the auction. It's a French trial for Holland when French coining technology was being introduced into the Utrecht Mint in 1808 (though the piece is thought to have been struck slightly later). It's a pretty scarce piece to begin with, and I've never heard of another UNC example.

For instance, in the important Dutch collection that was just offered by Künker about 2 weeks ago (the Lodewijk S. Beth Collection, Part 1), there were several examples with various edge inscriptions, but none were UNC. The online reference at Laurens Schulman shows a silver UNC and some high-grade copper examples, but none appeared strictly UNC. Despite the carbon spots, my example is an UNC with luster.

The piece is 38mm (Rijksdaalder-sized) and has an edge inscription produced with a single-piece collar (virolle pleine) as opposed to a three-piece segmented collar (virolle brisée).

I'm probably buried in it, but it's a good addition to my collection.

A friend of mine once said "I may have overpaid, but at least I have it!"
I strongly believe in this. I threw away the price guides when I went to purchase coins that I needed after that comment and went by instinct alone. At least I have most liberty seated coins now, even though I may have overpaid on a lot of them at the time of purchase, but at least I have them. Most of them are a lot more expensive today then at the time I "overpaid" for them.
Buy the way-very nice !

bidask

@rec78 said:

@pruebas said:
Here is my final win of the auction. It's a French trial for Holland when French coining technology was being introduced into the Utrecht Mint in 1808 (though the piece is thought to have been struck slightly later). It's a pretty scarce piece to begin with, and I've never heard of another UNC example.

For instance, in the important Dutch collection that was just offered by Künker about 2 weeks ago (the Lodewijk S. Beth Collection, Part 1), there were several examples with various edge inscriptions, but none were UNC. The online reference at Laurens Schulman shows a silver UNC and some high-grade copper examples, but none appeared strictly UNC. Despite the carbon spots, my example is an UNC with luster.

The piece is 38mm (Rijksdaalder-sized) and has an edge inscription produced with a single-piece collar (virolle pleine) as opposed to a three-piece segmented collar (virolle brisée).

I'm probably buried in it, but it's a good addition to my collection.

A friend of mine once said "I may have overpaid, but at least I have it!"
I strongly believe in this. I threw away the price guides when I went to purchase coins that I needed after that comment and went by instinct alone. At least I have most liberty seated coins now, even though I may have overpaid on a lot of them at the time of purchase, but at least I have them. Most of them are a lot more expensive today then at the time I "overpaid" for them.
Buy the way-very nice !

You did the right thing !

bidask

@bidask said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon

I want to see the movie coming out soon

I watched the new NAPOLEAN movie last evening .

Here is some back history on that period of time

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Napoleon-I

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Emmanuel-Joseph-Sieyes

Fascinating times of France .

I think nice french 5 francs of those periods are worth buying ….imo.

I recently bought a nice crown from Spain when Joseph ( Napoleon’s brother ) was ruler.

Thank you Mr Eureka !

ELuis

@bidask said:
I think nice french 5 francs of those periods are worth buying ….imo.

There was one I saw yesterday 1803 A AN 12 - PCGS AU50 for $499 - But did not last too long, it was sold right away.

pruebas

@MrEureka said:
Some of today's purchases.

It’s mine now!

tcollects

@Bob13 said:
Well, the packaging was really nice!

Not sure it was 90 euros worth but this holder is great.

now you need a holder for those holders, it's a never ending cycle

bidask

Successfully crossed from NGC proof 65

Rare Hercules proof from that time period.

TwoKopeiki

@bidask said:
Successfully crossed from NGC proof 65

Rare Hercules proof from that time period.

Wowee!

bidask

I watched the new NAPOLEAN movie last evein> @TwoKopeiki said:

@bidask said:
Successfully crossed from NGC proof 65

Rare Hercules proof from that time period.

Wowee!

😀

I was waiting for someone to notice.

Thank you