Grading Vinyl Records

eagles33

I made a post quite a few years ago asking if there were any companies grading vinyl records. At the time, there weren't any. I really wanted to get some of my collection slabbed, so I spent the last few years designing and manufacturing a slab for this. We finally got it to how we would want to slab and store our own collections, so we decided to launch a company to provide a grading service for records. I've been a part of this message board for about 15 years and have bought and sold cards with many of you. Integrity is my highest priority while doing this. We would never slab anything of our own to sell. Anything that we slabbed of our own either says "not for sale" as the serial number or starts with my initials. Here are a few examples. Let me know if you have any questions/feedback. Shoot me a DM for a promo code if you are interested in submitting anything.
https://vmgvinyl.com/

CardGeek

See though, how do you play them if they're in a slab. I don't know how much my records are worth. I don't have any records I won't play out of fear of, dinging a corner though.

Estil

You know while we're on the subject of vinyl records how come an artist's "rookie album" (first major album) isn't treated the same as a ballplayer's rookie card? I'm not saying the rookie album has to necessarily be worth more than all (or nearly all) the others but I would think it would be at least as noticeable? For example my late wife's favorite artist, Carrie Underwood, her rookie album would be Some Hearts. My favorite artist, ABBA's rookie album is Ring Ring (their breakout hit, Waterloo is on the second album of the same name), George Strait's rookie album is Strait Country, Alabama's is Wildcountry (the band's original name), and so on.

Estil

@CardGeek said:
See though, how do you play them if they're in a slab. I don't know how much my records are worth. I don't have any records I won't play out of fear of, dinging a corner though.

That's the thing about comic books...how are you supposed to read them without risking wrecking them?

CardGeek

.

1959

I seems that grading an album cover makes more sense that incasing an entire record. Cards are made to be looked at, but records are made to be listened to.

eagles33

That’s true…. But coins were meant to be spent, comics meant to be read, stamps meant to be used as postage etc… I’m not trying to sway anyone one way or the other. I have many albums that I listen to but some that never listen to because I want to keep them pristine. This all started for me with Live Like A Suicide by GNR. It wasn’t an album I ever played but it was GNRs “rookie” album. Plus I really love the way things look slabbed.

CardGeek

Usually records are listed with 2 conditions X/X. Cover and vinyl. Sometimes 3 conditions. With the cover and each side of the record graded separately.

Estil

@eagles33 said:
That’s true…. But coins were meant to be spent

Oh my grandma tries to pull that on me whenever I mention coin roll hunting...but don't most people, most of the time spend via their credit and/or debit card? I mean you can't collect numbers on a computer or phone screen after all. Nor would having those big Topps baseball and football card coffee table books with pictures of the cards or downloading pictures of cards really count as actually owning them in a real card collection.

Estil

@eagles33 said:
I have many albums that I listen to but some that never listen to because I want to keep them pristine.

And why the heck should you not? Not in this modern day and age when we could just pull up whatever song/video we want with the point and click of a mouse. I also like having magazines and books in PDF format whenever possible, even if (which is more likely than not) I do have the originals. After all, why risk wrecking your originals if you don't have to? Speaking of which if anyone out there could get around to having all the 80s/90s Beckett Baseball Card Monthly (and other collecting magazines) in PDF format or having an archive of SPORT magazine like there is for their rival Sports Illustrated, that would be super amazing.

CardGeek

@Estil said:
After all, why risk wrecking your originals if you don't have to? S

Why buy them at all?

Almost nothing new is staying relevant. Output is quite high. Nearly nothing is sticking.

Also, in many cases the PDFs and MP3s are the originals.

CardGeek

Should also add, visual grading of vinyl is 2nd tier to play grading. Guys who sell tons of used vinyl only give you visual grades because they don't have the time to play all the stuff they're selling. But, when you're buying a really expensive piece of vinyl you probably want it play graded. Records can look great but sound bad and skip.

Also, reshrinking vinyl is a big problem. Shrink wrap wasn't even a thing till the mid 60s. Likely wasn't widely used till the 1970s. Often used record dealers would reshrink records probably starting in the late 70s or early 80s. You never really know what's in the shrink. Which is 1 reason why original stickers are important. Also for dating.

RonSportscards

@eagles33 said:
I made a post quite a few years ago asking if there were any companies grading vinyl records. At the time, there weren't any. I really wanted to get some of my collection slabbed, so I spent the last few years designing and manufacturing a slab for this. We finally got it to how we would want to slab and store our own collections, so we decided to launch a company to provide a grading service for records. I've been a part of this message board for about 15 years and have bought and sold cards with many of you. Integrity is my highest priority while doing this. We would never slab anything of our own to sell. Anything that we slabbed of our own either says "not for sale" as the serial number or starts with my initials. Here are a few examples. Let me know if you have any questions/feedback. Shoot me a DM for a promo code if you are interested in submitting anything.
https://vmgvinyl.com/

I like the idea.
I don't collect records, but I've had some unique ones in the past.

The Beatles Butcher example has no vinyl grade, so does that mean it's just the cover?
Whereas the Velvet Underground has no vinyl grade because it's sealed.
It think it would be clearer to state plainly, for dummies like me, "cover only" or "factory sealed" in the description.

And the Mario Bros example, is that a front and back pic? Or are they 2 different cases? Are they attached to each other?
If it's front and back of 1 case, is the record covering the back cover art?

And what about the sleeve?
If you have the cover, sleeve, but no record, how do you handle that?
Since the sleeve can have amazing art on it.

CardGeek

You guys love wrapping stuff in plastic.

It surprises me because the card grading stuff has screwed up the hobby and seems like a complete dumpster fire.

coolstanley

There is a company that slabs 8-tracks, so why not record lp's? I have about 100 sealed rock lp's from the 70's and 80's I would like to get slabbed because I just collect and dont play them. I think my rookie BLACK SABBATH and AC/DC albums would look pretty cool in slabs

VitoCo1972

@Estil said:

@CardGeek said:
See though, how do you play them if they're in a slab. I don't know how much my records are worth. I don't have any records I won't play out of fear of, dinging a corner though.

That's the thing about comic books...how are you supposed to read them without risking wrecking them?

I collect graded comics and it's incredibly easy to just read them online. I read every one I buy when they arrive. I never found the paper experience essential to my comics. With vinyl though, that turntable quality is a deep part of the experience. Digital music (even when run through turntable credenza speakers) don't have that magic quality.

RonSportscards

@VitoCo1972 said:

@Estil said:

@CardGeek said:
See though, how do you play them if they're in a slab. I don't know how much my records are worth. I don't have any records I won't play out of fear of, dinging a corner though.

That's the thing about comic books...how are you supposed to read them without risking wrecking them?

I collect graded comics and it's incredibly easy to just read them online. I read every one I buy when they arrive. I never found the paper experience essential to my comics. With vinyl though, that turntable quality is a deep part of the experience. Digital music (even when run through turntable credenza speakers) don't have that magic quality.

And yet one could say the opposite and say flipping the paper pages is deeply essential to the comic reading experience and the skipping and popping from a turntable is not a magical quality.

VitoCo1972

@RonSportscards said:

@VitoCo1972 said:

@Estil said:

@CardGeek said:
See though, how do you play them if they're in a slab. I don't know how much my records are worth. I don't have any records I won't play out of fear of, dinging a corner though.

That's the thing about comic books...how are you supposed to read them without risking wrecking them?

I collect graded comics and it's incredibly easy to just read them online. I read every one I buy when they arrive. I never found the paper experience essential to my comics. With vinyl though, that turntable quality is a deep part of the experience. Digital music (even when run through turntable credenza speakers) don't have that magic quality.

And yet one could say the opposite and say flipping the paper pages is deeply essential to the comic reading experience and the skipping and popping from a turntable is not a magical quality.

Totally. To each their own!

CardGeek

They don't usually skip. Usually when they're skipping they just need to be cleaned. When they're in high grade there isn't much popping either. You gotta play grade them.

I do like the idea of trading slabbed stuff. I own slabbed comics and slabbed cards. Just because buyers have a better idea of what they're getting for their money.

I listen to too much music to only listen to vinyl. I do like the idea of buying new records before a band really explodes. If I hear something I think is great on the radio I research it and buy the vinyl if it's available. The thing is, crack it and listen to it. A lot of the new vinyl being made these days is pretty low print runs. Guys cracking cards send modern stuff in by the stack it seems. I'd hate for a great band to issue a limited edition record and have some dude buy the whole run and slab them all and pump up the price and post it on eBay.

Two of those records posted above are exceptional records. Like, Mantle and Mays RCs. I can understand people slabbing that sort of. I have a record cover framed in my house. I keep the vinyl on the shelf and listen to it. The two covers above are more important than the vinyl. Most of the cards people grade these days are not exceptional cards.

1951WheatiesPremium

Card grading came about because people were disappointed and/or disagreed over the condition.

This seems similar.

Just like with cards, it doesn’t have to stay in the slab, either.

Maybe you just want to know you’re getting a nice clean cover and a tested record.

Seems like a great idea - I hope it works out for a good hombre like you, @eagles33 !!!

eagles33

@RonSportscards said:

@eagles33 said:
I made a post quite a few years ago asking if there were any companies grading vinyl records. At the time, there weren't any. I really wanted to get some of my collection slabbed, so I spent the last few years designing and manufacturing a slab for this. We finally got it to how we would want to slab and store our own collections, so we decided to launch a company to provide a grading service for records. I've been a part of this message board for about 15 years and have bought and sold cards with many of you. Integrity is my highest priority while doing this. We would never slab anything of our own to sell. Anything that we slabbed of our own either says "not for sale" as the serial number or starts with my initials. Here are a few examples. Let me know if you have any questions/feedback. Shoot me a DM for a promo code if you are interested in submitting anything.
https://vmgvinyl.com/

I like the idea.
I don't collect records, but I've had some unique ones in the past.

The Beatles Butcher example has no vinyl grade, so does that mean it's just the cover?
Whereas the Velvet Underground has no vinyl grade because it's sealed.
It think it would be clearer to state plainly, for dummies like me, "cover only" or "factory sealed" in the description.

And the Mario Bros example, is that a front and back pic? Or are they 2 different cases? Are they attached to each other?
If it's front and back of 1 case, is the record covering the back cover art?

And what about the sleeve?
If you have the cover, sleeve, but no record, how do you handle that?
Since the sleeve can have amazing art on it.

The butcher and Velvet Underground are both sealed. Sealed albums have 3 subgrades; seal, cover, and spine. Opened albums have 4 subgrades; cover, spine, vinyl and label. The cover and vinyl are weighted more heavily than spine and label. Also for opened albums the vinyl and cover are slabbed separately and then hinged together so you can see the front and back of each. The hinge.allows you to fold the case and easily store it on a shelf. We merged with a company called AAGS who is our resident audiophile to grade the sound. Here is an example of an album with an audio grade too.

coolstanley

What are the grading fees per album? I didn't see any prices on the website.

eagles33

@coolstanley said:
What are the grading fees per album? I didn't see any prices on the website.

We are still perfecting the website to get the flow correct. https://vmgvinyl.com/services/

Sealed albums are 39.99, open with the vinyl in sleeve are 47.99 and opened with the hinged case are 64.99.

BBBrkrr

Those slabs are cool. Makes me wish I collected vinyl.

ghooper33

Very cool - I plan on submitting a few for display in my basement.

Side note for the future: A registry would be fun for a complete run for bands or other fun groupings.

80sOPC

There is definitely a market for this. Buying used records online is a mess.

Trust that you play each album to grade the vinyl? Can’t be done by eye as any collector knows, pristine looking vinyl can be noisy.

coinkat

Grading record album covers seems reasonable- there are album covers designed by various artists- David Stone Martin and Ben Shahn are quite rare in a quality state of preservation. While this seems viable but only if it is done without the record in the album cover- And I write this for many reasons that should be self-evident. Album art has a following that has the potential to grow as time progresses- it is not just about the record. And album covers split at the seams in part do to handling and in part to storage over time whereby the vinyl record point of contact with the album cover seam promotes the splitting. Most serious collectors that are concerned about the album cover and handle and store them in a way to keep this from transpiring. And it is easier said that done with album art for LPs entering its 7th and 8th decade- age and what naturally happens to paper stock makes preservation a challenge.

As for grading vinyl, the quality of the record should come into play. Some of the older Blue Note and Prestige 10" and 12" LPs from the 1950s can sound better than they look. I would suggest grading the record itself becomes problematic because of record label itself and the wear attributable to the spindle and the grooves that will exhibit wear differently based on the age and type of the stylis used over time. Budget labels never sound as good or wear as well as quality vinyl. So it would be logical to give the most serious consideration to standards and that is where the disagreements will start.

1951WheatiesPremium

@coinkat said:
Grading record album covers seems reasonable- there are album covers designed by various artists- David Stone Martin and Ben Shahn are quite rare in a quality state of preservation. While this seems viable but only if it is done without the record in the album cover- And I write this for many reasons that should be self-evident. Album art has a following that has the potential to grow as time progresses- it is not just about the record. And album covers split at the seams in part do to handling and in part to storage over time whereby the vinyl record point of contact with the album cover seam promotes the splitting. Most serious collectors that are concerned about the album cover and handle and store them in a way to keep this from transpiring. And it is easier said that done with album art for LPs entering its 7th and 8th decade- age and what naturally happens to paper stock makes preservation a challenge.

As for grading vinyl, the quality of the record should come into play. Some of the older Blue Note and Prestige 10" and 12" LPs from the 1950s can sound better than they look. I would suggest grading the record itself becomes problematic because of record label itself and the wear attributable to the spindle and the grooves that will exhibit wear differently based on the age and type of the stylis used over time. Budget labels never sound as good or wear as well as quality vinyl. So it would be logical to give the most serious consideration to standards and that is where the disagreements will start.

Maybe.

I don’t agree with the results I get from PSA every time. But I still wouldn’t send a card anywhere else and I would say that the times I’ve been happy far outweigh the times I’ve been disappointed. Case in point, I took it on the chin recently with an order and I still subsequently sent two more.

CardGeek

@eagles33 said:
The butcher and Velvet Underground are both sealed.

How do you know they haven't been reshrunk? Not necessarily these. But, any old record. No stickers.

Are there extra points if they have the right inner sleeve? Do they have a database or something that tells them what the right inner is?

These two records are exceptional. You gotta realize though that if this service is a hit. People are going to be sending in literally tons of junk.

RonSportscards

@eagles33 said:

@RonSportscards said:

@eagles33 said:
I made a post quite a few years ago asking if there were any companies grading vinyl records. At the time, there weren't any. I really wanted to get some of my collection slabbed, so I spent the last few years designing and manufacturing a slab for this. We finally got it to how we would want to slab and store our own collections, so we decided to launch a company to provide a grading service for records. I've been a part of this message board for about 15 years and have bought and sold cards with many of you. Integrity is my highest priority while doing this. We would never slab anything of our own to sell. Anything that we slabbed of our own either says "not for sale" as the serial number or starts with my initials. Here are a few examples. Let me know if you have any questions/feedback. Shoot me a DM for a promo code if you are interested in submitting anything.
https://vmgvinyl.com/

I like the idea.
I don't collect records, but I've had some unique ones in the past.

The Beatles Butcher example has no vinyl grade, so does that mean it's just the cover?
Whereas the Velvet Underground has no vinyl grade because it's sealed.
It think it would be clearer to state plainly, for dummies like me, "cover only" or "factory sealed" in the description.

And the Mario Bros example, is that a front and back pic? Or are they 2 different cases? Are they attached to each other?
If it's front and back of 1 case, is the record covering the back cover art?

And what about the sleeve?
If you have the cover, sleeve, but no record, how do you handle that?
Since the sleeve can have amazing art on it.

The butcher and Velvet Underground are both sealed. Sealed albums have 3 subgrades; seal, cover, and spine. Opened albums have 4 subgrades; cover, spine, vinyl and label. The cover and vinyl are weighted more heavily than spine and label. Also for opened albums the vinyl and cover are slabbed separately and then hinged together so you can see the front and back of each. The hinge.allows you to fold the case and easily store it on a shelf. We merged with a company called AAGS who is our resident audiophile to grade the sound. Here is an example of an album with an audio grade too.

I guess that goes to my point. Looking at the Beatles Butcher pic, it wasn't clear if it was a sealed copy or just the jacket.

As for the opened albums, are the inner sleeves included?
How would the consumer know if the sleeve is hiding in the jacket or not, once encased.
Is it labeled as such? Seems important for value.
Can the record case be easily unhinged from the jacket case?
If so, it seems the jacket case can be sold as a complete record package, unless the label clearly states otherwise.

And what about opened double albums?
Are there oversized slabs to display an unfolded gatefold cover?
Will the record cases be double hinged to the cover case to attach both records?

CardGeek

Someone should start a Twinkie grading company. I hear there are lots of food collectors out there. Investors want to know what year their old Twinkies are from.

eagles33

Sorry the pics are not that clear. If the record is opened it will either be the in the hinged case or have a different label. If a collector chooses that they don’t want the hinged case we offer a less expensive option to slab “vinyl in sleeve”. The label has a black stripe instead of gold on it to know the difference. We do not grade the inserts but will note on the label if the original insert is included. If someone chooses they can have the insert slabbed too and be part of the hinged design. The hinged design allows for double and triple albums to be slabbed and fold like an accordion.

Here is an example of the VIS label

Here is a double album
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CvcY6UDOzBk/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

eagles33

We would not slab the cover only. If an album was issued with only a generic sleeve or without a sleeve then we will grade and slab the vinyl only. This is usually the case with test pressings.

CardGeek

Do you play the test pressings? Are you ripping audio?

Nearly all the value of test pressings is that they can be mixes that aren't available. I'm surprised you can authenticate that. There are tons of records out there that people say are test pressings, even discogs, that aren't test pressings.

CardGeek

.> @eagles33 said:

We do not grade the inserts but will note on the label if the original insert is included.

You guys should be noting on the label if the original inserts are not included. Like, if a page from a comic is missing CGC will say "missing center wrap" or something similar.

If somebody buys a high grade record that you guys have graded and It's missing the poster in it when they crack it, that would be kind of a big deal.

BLUEJAYWAY

@coolstanley said:
There is a company that slabs 8-tracks, so why not record lp's? I have about 100 sealed rock lp's from the 70's and 80's I would like to get slabbed because I just collect and dont play them. I think my rookie BLACK SABBATH and AC/DC albums would look pretty cool in slabs

They are even grading /sealing video tapes.

BLUEJAYWAY

@VitoCo1972 said:

@Estil said:

@CardGeek said:
See though, how do you play them if they're in a slab. I don't know how much my records are worth. I don't have any records I won't play out of fear of, dinging a corner though.

That's the thing about comic books...how are you supposed to read them without risking wrecking them?

I collect graded comics and it's incredibly easy to just read them online. I read every one I buy when they arrive. I never found the paper experience essential to my comics. With vinyl though, that turntable quality is a deep part of the experience. Digital music (even when run through turntable credenza speakers) don't have that magic quality.

Yes the vinyl has a different tonal quality. I also like the album concept with the album listing the songs and liner notes. I've retained all my 60's and up LP's. My most liked is the original Beatles "White Album" with the stamped serial number. As far as grading LP'S never considered it . Maybe that will change.

eagles33

We have rejected some that we could not authenticate. Test pressings typically need provenance along with the record. If we cannot verify something then we won’t slab it. We just slabbed one for a major auction house and they opted for the audio back up but not audio grading. We go to great lengths to authentic. Contacting record labels etc.. I now understand why PSA was so difficult .. and probably annoyed with me when I was trying to get some of my non major sport rookie cards approved for grading.

Estil

@BLUEJAYWAY said:

They are even grading /sealing video tapes.

But then how are you supposed to take a trip on Video Airlines?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhiw4MK8O1g

coolstanley

@eagles33 said:
We have rejected some that we could not authenticate. Test pressings typically need provenance along with the record. If we cannot verify something then we won’t slab it. We just slabbed one for a major auction house and they opted for the audio back up but not audio grading. We go to great lengths to authentic. Contacting record labels etc.. I now understand why PSA was so difficult .. and probably annoyed with me when I was trying to get some of my non major sport rookie cards approved for grading.

If they get rejected do we get our $48 back?

BLUEJAYWAY

@CardGeek said:
.> @eagles33 said:

We do not grade the inserts but will note on the label if the original insert is included.

You guys should be noting on the label if the original inserts are not included. Like, if a page from a comic is missing CGC will say "missing center wrap" or something similar.

If somebody buys a high grade record that you guys have graded and It's missing the poster in it when they crack it, that would be kind of a big deal.

To take your point further. For example in regard to inserts. The Beatles Sgt. Pepper LP has a cut out insert as well as a colored inner sleeve which starts as a darker pink and gradually fades.

CardGeek

.

Estil

When they grade/slab them, do they put a warning label or qualifier on those sad country albums?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-rIoHRVIhM

Mister Rogers: Isn't that interesting...how people make records.

CardGeek

@Estil said:
When they grade/slab them, do they put a warning label or qualifier on those sad country albums?

Please encapsulate as much country music as possible.

Estil

@CardGeek said:

@Estil said:
When they grade/slab them, do they put a warning label or qualifier on those sad country albums?

Please encapsulate as much country music as possible.

If you own and have encapsulated every Boxcar Willie album, you might be a redneck!

CardGeek

Boxcar Willie was the first piece of music I ever bought. When I as in 1st grade. 8 track off the TV. How did you know of my love of Boxcar WIllie? That shouldn't be public knowledge.

UlyssesExtravaganza

What about the longbox CD? Took an interest in these because they came out at a time when I was loving music most, loitering in record music stores in college, and supply is very limited because the idea was abandoned quickly and most of it would have been opened. So far this is my entire collection. 😆 Not easy to find appealing stuff at a reasonable price. And this one is folded down the middle. Kind of a PSA 1 type of crease.