@RonSportscards said:
Well, my first ever sub to SGC just popped. Just 9 cards total to test.
It included 4 crackouts from PSA, 3 that I thought were grossly misgraded.
Turns out, I was right.
Card 1
First is my 89 Hoops Jordan AS that PSA gave a EX 5 grade. I thought that it just couldn't be and I could not find any problem with the card, before and after cracking. I thought it had a shot at a 10. SGC agreed. SGC result: GEM MT 10 ! A 5 grade bump !
Card 2
This 94 Topps Sample Nolan Ryan was not graded by PSA because of min-size. I measured the card and it seemed fine, and I know it wasn't altered because I pulled it from a sealed factory set. SGC result: MINT+ 9.5 !! A 9.5 grade bump ! LOL
Card 3
Next was an 83 Topps Sticker panel that PSA gave a VG 4 grade. I thought that was really low. SGC agreed. SGC result: NM MT 8 ! A 4 grade bump !
Card 4
The final cracked card was an 89 Topps Randy Johnson that PSA gave a MT 9 grade. I thought it had a good shot at a 10, so I cracked it out just to see what SGC might grade. SGC result: MINT+ 9.5 ! 1/2 grade bump.
Maybe the 9.5s could have been 10s before all the handling of the card by PSA and myself cracking them out.
I did receive an unexpected SGC 4 on 1 of the cards, but all the others graded to what I was expecting.
just review the pop report. i have been posting about it over and over. 750 1987 topps nolan ryan psa 10's have little to no growth value. 4100 1989 UD griffey's have little to no growth value.
The surface downgrades are just too much. People want centered cards, sharp corners and no "noticeable" issues. They don't really care if the cardboard is completely flawless, because it's not and never has been.
@olb31 said:
just review the pop report. i have been posting about it over and over. 750 1987 topps nolan ryan psa 10's have little to no growth value. 4100 1989 UD griffey's have little to no growth value.
The surface downgrades are just too much. People want centered cards, sharp corners and no "noticeable" issues. They don't really care if the cardboard is completely flawless, because it's not and never has been.
I agree with this 100%. It sort of feels like some of the newer technology things are just to justify all the services' existence.
No one needs it to be flawless even under UV scans, etc... Just do a good visual grade and return it quickly.
I'm currently sitting at almost 90 days on the 60s special submittal from when it was ENTERED and it's still in grading. No reason for that to ever happen.
@olb31 said:
just review the pop report. i have been posting about it over and over. 750 1987 topps nolan ryan psa 10's have little to no growth value. 4100 1989 UD griffey's have little to no growth value.
The surface downgrades are just too much. People want centered cards, sharp corners and no "noticeable" issues. They don't really care if the cardboard is completely flawless, because it's not and never has been.
I agree with this 100%. It sort of feels like some of the newer technology things are just to justify all the services' existence.
_ No one needs it to be flawless even under UV scans, etc... Just do a good visual grade and return it quickly. _
I'm currently sitting at almost 90 days on the 60s special submittal from when it was ENTERED and it's still in grading. No reason for that to ever happen.
@Cakes said:
Ron and anyone else that cracked PSA's and subbed to SGC and got amazing results you should get a refund from PSA for the horrible service.
The Hoops Jordan getting a PSA5 especially bothered me. Yes, I know it's their "opinion", and they've graded 10s of 1000s of this lower dollar card, but I wonder if they even looked at the card. The cynic in me can say it's pop control or they're looking for crackout repeat business, and had they given the card a PSA8 or even a PSA7, I might not have cracked it out and figured I missed something. But given it a PSA5 was a real slap in the face and tantamount to theft with an invitation to yes, please crack it out.
A few weeks ago I sent 11 1969-70 Topps basketball cards to SGC. These had never been graded but I had a good idea what they would be if sent to PSA. All but two came back graded higher that I expected. The checklist graded what I expected and a Havlicek was a grade lower than expected. The turn around time was 2 weeks at $15 per card.
@jfkheat said:
A few weeks ago I sent 11 1969-70 Topps basketball cards to SGC. These had never been graded but I had a good idea what they would be if sent to PSA. All but two came back graded higher that I expected. The checklist graded what I expected and a Havlicek was a grade lower than expected. The turn around time was 2 weeks at $15 per card.
Now it feels like you're just rubbing salt in my turnaround-time wound.
I know folks who will not buy any PSA card unless is slabbed 2022 or later. Myself I will no longer pay FMV for older slabs only for newer. Except this to become the new normal that majority of collectors will practice in the near future.
If not already then soon, sellers will notice lower realized prices for pre 2022 slabs. Those folks have PSA to thank.I
IMO this makes no sense. Buy the card not the holder. There's ample cards in old PSA holders that would receive the same grade if submitted today. I agree that cards in old PSA holders that are graded PSA 8/9 that are off center should be avoided.
If you are correct this would mean there would be ZERO REASON for any collector to have his cards graded until the time they are ready to sell their collection. Why have them graded today when in five years collectors might only want cards in recently graded holders. This would mean unless a collector knew for sure he was never going to sell his collection there would be zero reason to submit any cards to PSA.
I found this crazy, just the other day.
Same seller. Ended same day.
PSA8 that was off centered left/right vs. SGC9 beauty.
I would have gladly paid $8 for the SGC9. I was going to bid but work pulled me away and then I forgot.
Is PSA set registry alive and well?
I just sent my fourth group of PSA crack outs from serial numbers 7000 and higher. I’m averaging 1.41 upgrade per card
I have my last 4 PSA orders in level 7 now. Let’s see how these turn out
In college, in the summers over 20 years ago, I used to grade standardized exam essays. They would give everyone an example of what was a 1 through what was a 5 which was the best one could get. Grading so many of them you sometimes lose your way and it was always impprtant to come back and level set and look at those examples again.
The other important part was that the 5 was 80% of the way to perfection, the 4 between 60 and 79% and so on.
PSA has lost their way.
If you send in cards now that are vintage that are 100% mint, you start at a 9, 99% mint is an 8, 97% mint is a 7, 95 or 96% is a 6, 94-95% is a 5, 91-93 is a 4, 87-90 is a 3, 81-86 is a 2 and anything below 80% mint is a 1.
Grading can't work like that. In the past it was all equally spread out among the ten grade points. I could MAYBE see a 10 being 95% mint or above but the rest of them have to be more or less equally spaced out in terms of degradation to card and the associated grade.
PSA used to grade like that in the past.
They have somehow gotten lost in the process of grading millions of cards and have lost their bearings about what grade should be what.
@Cakes said:
Ron and anyone else that cracked PSA's and subbed to SGC and got amazing results you should get a refund from PSA for the horrible service.
The Hoops Jordan getting a PSA5 especially bothered me. Yes, I know it's their "opinion", and they've graded 10s of 1000s of this lower dollar card, but I wonder if they even looked at the card. The cynic in me can say it's pop control or they're looking for crackout repeat business, and had they given the card a PSA8 or even a PSA7, I might not have cracked it out and figured I missed something. But given it a PSA5 was a real slap in the face and tantamount to theft with an invitation to yes, please crack it out.
Agreed! when it goes from a 5 to a 10 and the other card was a 4 to an 8 it scares the hell out of me. But...after seeing those results you have shown me the way.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
@Cakes said:
Ron and anyone else that cracked PSA's and subbed to SGC and got amazing results you should get a refund from PSA for the horrible service.
The Hoops Jordan getting a PSA5 especially bothered me. Yes, I know it's their "opinion", and they've graded 10s of 1000s of this lower dollar card, but I wonder if they even looked at the card. The cynic in me can say it's pop control or they're looking for crackout repeat business, and had they given the card a PSA8 or even a PSA7, I might not have cracked it out and figured I missed something. But given it a PSA5 was a real slap in the face and tantamount to theft with an invitation to yes, please crack it out.
I've read very similar in multiple forums and on various Social Media. While that does not make it it true, it now gives me cause for pause and incentive to dig deeper
@JoeBanzai said:
^^Amazing!^^
I hope PSA is addressing this issue. If they ignore it, they are in trouble.
Does PSA consider it an issue or is it it by design?
Good question, maybe they just want to grade pokemon?
Once a company loses a customer, it's hard to get them back.
I think if you look at what the grading companies charge the least amount of money for and the most, it tells you what they want to grade. Without a special, PSA is only asking $15 for TCG. When there is a 13.99 special its TCG and the cheap stuff with a $100 declared value, stuff they can pound through because they are not making a mistake on a thousand dollar Charizard card overgrading it missing a scratch on a foil card. Stuff they can blow through. Are the corners sharp? Let me check. Oh wait, there are no corners. Easy to check. New company 4 Round Corners sending in 1000s of cards. AI can probably spit out a centering reading in a couple of seconds. Less of an issue with surface wrinkles. Scratches if its foil? Whitening around the not exactly corners? Done. Next. They charge 15, offer a special discount of 13.99, SGC charges 9. TCG is the girl at the dance most of the grading companies want to dance with.
Or modern, cause again, it must be easier. Cards look like they are made of steel and can break the skin. Probably takes a lot less time to evaluate pack fresh Chrome corners than determine exactly how much wear there is on aged cards that were made from similar material as a box of Lucky Charms. Kind of much more subjective to determine the grade of an old card where part of it has deteriorated. What is the algorithm for how much has disappeared? .0007% means NM-MT? .0018 means PSA 5. How can you do the math on how round/not sharp the corners on 30 to 60-year-old card are? Not sure you can or if it has been figured out. Chrome Prizm Optic. 45 degree angles. Done. Next step. SGC had a special for 2023 Topps Chrome for $9. Now Bowman Chrome for $9. All I need to know. Its easier. I am not holding my breath on a 1933 Goudey or T206 special for $9. More difficult. Less of them.
I think they also see it as a business opportunity where they want to target the business where there is the largest supply. TCG and modern cards the stuff is just getting printed and printed and printed. With TCG and modern you could have 50 to 100 releases a year, all with their desirable short prints. Older stuff, the supply gets smaller every day. 2023 50 to 100 releases with tons of raw cards ready to be slabbed. 1972 how many releases are there people would consider grading in large quantities? Then how many are already in slabs? How much more would never be considered candidates for slabbing in the next 20 years? How much is left? There just is an always decreasing supply of candidates for grading with old cards. TCG and modern its like a volcano spitting out candidates by the second that could allow them to have a business transaction.
I see people hoping for specials on this and that like oversized cards or coins and pins and that would be nice. I have some stuff I could throw out there. But dont think we ever see bargains there again. I just doubt they want that business. I assume they feel that if they lose customers that prioritize the older stuff they feel they can make up for it with new customers who like Gengar Blastoise and Kenny Pickett /199 Disco Prizms.
@olb31 said:
just review the pop report. i have been posting about it over and over. 750 1987 topps nolan ryan psa 10's have little to no growth value. 4100 1989 UD griffey's have little to no growth value.
The surface downgrades are just too much. People want centered cards, sharp corners and no "noticeable" issues. They don't really care if the cardboard is completely flawless, because it's not and never has been.
I agree with this 100%. It sort of feels like some of the newer technology things are just to justify all the services' existence.
_ No one needs it to be flawless even under UV scans, etc... Just do a good visual grade and return it quickly. _
I'm currently sitting at almost 90 days on the 60s special submittal from when it was ENTERED and it's still in grading. No reason for that to ever happen.
Totally agree with that statement.
UV scans are to detect attempted color alterations. Example 1971 borders that have been touched up with a black permanent marker.
Just saw and caught up on this thread. Is PSA really scanning every single card that comes in for review? That seems like a ton of work. Do they also save the scans? That is a ton of storage.
SGC grading - Mailed off on the 22, they received them the 28 and graded them Dec 5. Now that's service. I haven't seen the grades yet, so I might be ticked off later, but the fast grading is appreciated.
@olb31 said:
SGC grading - Mailed off on the 22, they received them the 28 and graded them Dec 5. Now that's service. I haven't seen the grades yet, so I might be ticked off later, but the fast grading is appreciated.
@olb31 said:
SGC grading - Mailed off on the 22, they received them the 28 and graded them Dec 5. Now that's service. I haven't seen the grades yet, so I might be ticked off later, but the fast grading is appreciated.
Wow. And that's with the holiday built in.
Good luck and I hope you only get 10s.
I doubt I get any 10's. sent in 1961 - 1977 cards. If I do get a 10, it will be a doozy. But thanks.
Just got the grades and they are mailing them back.
40 cards total
psa cut outs -
1971 from a 4 to authentic
1973 from a 6 to 8 from $25 to $75
1974 from a 6 to 8 from $40 to $175
1973 from a 5 to 4
1981 from a 7 to 8.5 from $40 to $80
1986 from a 8 to 9 from $25 to $175
Not bad. the ones that dropped aren't a big deal overall. Got some real nice grades. Really pumped. Here are the main highlights
1977 jabbar 9
1975 ryan 8
1975 opc tanana 9 pop 1
1973 ryan 8
1973 munson 9
1972 kingman opc 9 and opc 8.5
1973 wilt 8.5
Those are nice. I love the 73 Munson, but those Ryans will be nice to hold onto.
As a kid in the early 80s I met Tanana at an exhibition game and he was about as nice as anyone could ever be. Was a fan ever since. That guy was on a great career path until injuries forced him to become a different type pitcher. Nice career.
Not many going forward that will come close to matching those stats. and he was just considered a slightly above average pitcher for his day. Today he would make $40M a year.
Have picked up a few SGC cards over the years and pleased with the grades, and really like the tuxedo holders and how they feel. For vintage they are becoming a great option for grading. Only have a few right now but they are decent cards and grades. The 7.5 was reviewed and has been bumped to an 8 already.
@mintonlypls said:
The smart collector/investor will buy the card, not the holder...pre-or post-slabbed cards to the apparent stricter grading standards currently.
Unfortunately most collectors do not go by that mantra and the number grade rules. If you thought a vintage card you sent in to PSA was a 9 and it grades a 7 or an 8; or an 8 comes back a 5, etc. and you sell these cards say on Ebay you are basically going to be screwed. Most collectors will pay the price for the number grade with consideration given to the centering. I buy ungraded vintage and get it graded and sell it on Ebay or some auction houses. I have been doing this for say 30 years. I am picky and anal and do my best to try to find cards that might grade a 9 or maybe and 8. And in an average year I am right on say 70 to 75% (say 35% on hoped-for 9s) of my anticipated grade. This year I sent in 40 cards to PSA. I would say maybe 80% were lower than I hoped for. No 9s (except 1) and usually I at least hit a few. Then there were 2 cards: one card was an 8 in all possible scenarios and somehow it graded a 9 with the other 7 cards 1 to 2 grades lower than I expected. And then in another submission, a 1964 card was a 6 under all possible grading circumstances and it miraculously graded a 7.5. However the overriding trend was 80% lower than anticipated (hoped for). So I usually make a profit on the cards I sale and I am able to use it to keep some cards for my collection and give the remaining profit to my boss (my wife). This year on 40 cards sent in I was lucky enough to break even. All for nothing. I had to sell cards from my collection to pay the boss. This is called taking the fun out of collecting .
Doesn't this seen odd and possibly intentional? On both submissions all of the cards you figured would be valued higher are not and your expected lower value appears higher. If there is intention then it's quite a simple and profitable strategy if you're a grader and looking to buy and re-grade to flip.
Let's not assume everyone is our friend or that everyone at PSA has your best interest at heart. Do I think a grader hired in the last 3 years is looking to make a career out of grading and sees a lot of vertical movement in their career...definitely not the masses. Certain industries who work around valuables will attract all types. Schools attract pedophiles (no not every pedophile works at a school and not every school employee is a pedophile), nursing homes attract pill poppers, and what does the trading card and memorabilia industry attract... people who either also like trading card memorabilia or they simply just want money. There is obviously a way to scam the system here and I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least 1 person, or 1 team of people, who is doing something shady on occasion to profit more.
If any company over 100 employees doesn't have 1 bad apple employed from time to time then hats off to them but reality tells us that some employees, and some businesses, are corrupt.
I'm not going to accuse anyone of knowing about any scams at a high level. I do suspect scams are present here and there. I don't expect grading consistency when a scam occurs.
@olb31 said:
Just got the grades and they are mailing them back.
40 cards total
psa cut outs -
1971 from a 4 to authentic
1973 from a 6 to 8 from $25 to $75
1974 from a 6 to 8 from $40 to $175
1973 from a 5 to 4
1981 from a 7 to 8.5 from $40 to $80
1986 from a 8 to 9 from $25 to $175
Not bad. the ones that dropped aren't a big deal overall. Got some real nice grades. Really pumped. Here are the main highlights
1977 jabbar 9
1975 ryan 8
1975 opc tanana 9 pop 1
1973 ryan 8
1973 munson 9
1972 kingman opc 9 and opc 8.5
1973 wilt 8.5
and several other pretty nice ones.
Good results. A 6 to 8 jump is significant. How the heck can a card most people with a decent eye would agree is at least a 7 end up a 6 by Professionals? Purely accidentenal by the trained and qualified grader AND trained and qualified quality control multiple times on the same submission to hoard of people?
If it's purely accidental then a sign needs made "0 days since the last accident".
If I were in control, and kept hearing my fan base complaining, at some point I would mention the issue has been noted and look into it. Then I would follow-up with the dissatisfied people and update them with whatever actions are being taken to address the issue. Depending on the root cause then I may wait to disclose or follow-up until meeting with lawyers if the severity of the issue may result in legal issues.
SGC holders are attractive. I still like PSA holders. I haven't seen a SGC graded card in a holder that I thought was graded higher than it should have been by more than half a point.
I do plan on another submission but my confidence in grading consistency has me on edge.
I will say that I thought the grades with SGC were reminiscent of the PSA grades I used to get back in 2018 and back, I usually got alot of 7,8,9 grades on 70's stuff. I will say that I was surprised by the 1975 Nolan ryan getting an 8, although it is a nice card. It wasn't the best example I had to send in, but was extremely centered. The other grades were exactly what I thought they could be. On the PSA cut outs. I totally agreed with all the grades that SGC gave me (the authentic card was graded 3 times, PSA didn't grade it then gave it a 4 and then SGC said it was authentic).
My observation is that the two companies treat half-point grades a bit differently. SGC seems to place an emphasis on condition while PSA seems to place an emphasis on centering. For example, if the centering of a card warrants no greater than a 7 but is otherwise in mint condition SGC seems more likely than PSA to assign a 7.5. On the other hand, PSA seems more likely to assign a 7.5 to a card that warrants no greater than a 7 based upon its condition if it has near-perfect to perfect centering. My preference would be for both companies to be equally as willing to assign half-point grades in both scenarios rather than favoring one scenario over the other. PSA seems to have gotten more stingy with assigning half-point grades in recent years, which is a shame since they added half-point grades to their standards late in the game for a reason and benefitted substantially back then from review submissions that were based solely on the hope for a half-point bump.
Comments
All I can say about these results is ... LOL
^^Amazing!^^
I hope PSA is addressing this issue. If they ignore it, they are in trouble.
Looks like someone got ahead of it with one result that was recently posted. It has/had to be an AI issue.
Does PSA consider it an issue or is it it by design?
just review the pop report. i have been posting about it over and over. 750 1987 topps nolan ryan psa 10's have little to no growth value. 4100 1989 UD griffey's have little to no growth value.
The surface downgrades are just too much. People want centered cards, sharp corners and no "noticeable" issues. They don't really care if the cardboard is completely flawless, because it's not and never has been.
I agree with this 100%. It sort of feels like some of the newer technology things are just to justify all the services' existence.
No one needs it to be flawless even under UV scans, etc... Just do a good visual grade and return it quickly.
I'm currently sitting at almost 90 days on the 60s special submittal from when it was ENTERED and it's still in grading. No reason for that to ever happen.
Ron and anyone else that cracked PSA's and subbed to SGC and got amazing results you should get a refund from PSA for the horrible service.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Totally agree with that statement.
The Hoops Jordan getting a PSA5 especially bothered me. Yes, I know it's their "opinion", and they've graded 10s of 1000s of this lower dollar card, but I wonder if they even looked at the card. The cynic in me can say it's pop control or they're looking for crackout repeat business, and had they given the card a PSA8 or even a PSA7, I might not have cracked it out and figured I missed something. But given it a PSA5 was a real slap in the face and tantamount to theft with an invitation to yes, please crack it out.
Good question, maybe they just want to grade pokemon?
Once a company loses a customer, it's hard to get them back.
To me the added technology should be used to detect alterations, not to help with card grading.
A few weeks ago I sent 11 1969-70 Topps basketball cards to SGC. These had never been graded but I had a good idea what they would be if sent to PSA. All but two came back graded higher that I expected. The checklist graded what I expected and a Havlicek was a grade lower than expected. The turn around time was 2 weeks at $15 per card.
Now it feels like you're just rubbing salt in my turnaround-time wound.
I know folks who will not buy any PSA card unless is slabbed 2022 or later. Myself I will no longer pay FMV for older slabs only for newer. Except this to become the new normal that majority of collectors will practice in the near future.
If not already then soon, sellers will notice lower realized prices for pre 2022 slabs. Those folks have PSA to thank.I
IMO this makes no sense. Buy the card not the holder. There's ample cards in old PSA holders that would receive the same grade if submitted today. I agree that cards in old PSA holders that are graded PSA 8/9 that are off center should be avoided.
If you are correct this would mean there would be ZERO REASON for any collector to have his cards graded until the time they are ready to sell their collection. Why have them graded today when in five years collectors might only want cards in recently graded holders. This would mean unless a collector knew for sure he was never going to sell his collection there would be zero reason to submit any cards to PSA.
I found this crazy, just the other day.
Same seller. Ended same day.
PSA8 that was off centered left/right vs. SGC9 beauty.
I would have gladly paid $8 for the SGC9. I was going to bid but work pulled me away and then I forgot.
Is PSA set registry alive and well?
Ron, I've noticed those things going on recently with SGC/PSA as well. Prices are down all over and this is even better.
Better for buying. But I'm trying to sell some stuff too.
I just sent my fourth group of PSA crack outs from serial numbers 7000 and higher. I’m averaging 1.41 upgrade per card
I have my last 4 PSA orders in level 7 now. Let’s see how these turn out
In college, in the summers over 20 years ago, I used to grade standardized exam essays. They would give everyone an example of what was a 1 through what was a 5 which was the best one could get. Grading so many of them you sometimes lose your way and it was always impprtant to come back and level set and look at those examples again.
The other important part was that the 5 was 80% of the way to perfection, the 4 between 60 and 79% and so on.
PSA has lost their way.
If you send in cards now that are vintage that are 100% mint, you start at a 9, 99% mint is an 8, 97% mint is a 7, 95 or 96% is a 6, 94-95% is a 5, 91-93 is a 4, 87-90 is a 3, 81-86 is a 2 and anything below 80% mint is a 1.
Grading can't work like that. In the past it was all equally spread out among the ten grade points. I could MAYBE see a 10 being 95% mint or above but the rest of them have to be more or less equally spaced out in terms of degradation to card and the associated grade.
PSA used to grade like that in the past.
They have somehow gotten lost in the process of grading millions of cards and have lost their bearings about what grade should be what.
Agreed! when it goes from a 5 to a 10 and the other card was a 4 to an 8 it scares the hell out of me. But...after seeing those results you have shown me the way.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Just sold my first SGC card I got back from grading on November 17. good price.
I've read very similar in multiple forums and on various Social Media. While that does not make it it true, it now gives me cause for pause and incentive to dig deeper
I think if you look at what the grading companies charge the least amount of money for and the most, it tells you what they want to grade. Without a special, PSA is only asking $15 for TCG. When there is a 13.99 special its TCG and the cheap stuff with a $100 declared value, stuff they can pound through because they are not making a mistake on a thousand dollar Charizard card overgrading it missing a scratch on a foil card. Stuff they can blow through. Are the corners sharp? Let me check. Oh wait, there are no corners. Easy to check. New company 4 Round Corners sending in 1000s of cards. AI can probably spit out a centering reading in a couple of seconds. Less of an issue with surface wrinkles. Scratches if its foil? Whitening around the not exactly corners? Done. Next. They charge 15, offer a special discount of 13.99, SGC charges 9. TCG is the girl at the dance most of the grading companies want to dance with.
Or modern, cause again, it must be easier. Cards look like they are made of steel and can break the skin. Probably takes a lot less time to evaluate pack fresh Chrome corners than determine exactly how much wear there is on aged cards that were made from similar material as a box of Lucky Charms. Kind of much more subjective to determine the grade of an old card where part of it has deteriorated. What is the algorithm for how much has disappeared? .0007% means NM-MT? .0018 means PSA 5. How can you do the math on how round/not sharp the corners on 30 to 60-year-old card are? Not sure you can or if it has been figured out. Chrome Prizm Optic. 45 degree angles. Done. Next step. SGC had a special for 2023 Topps Chrome for $9. Now Bowman Chrome for $9. All I need to know. Its easier. I am not holding my breath on a 1933 Goudey or T206 special for $9. More difficult. Less of them.
I think they also see it as a business opportunity where they want to target the business where there is the largest supply. TCG and modern cards the stuff is just getting printed and printed and printed. With TCG and modern you could have 50 to 100 releases a year, all with their desirable short prints. Older stuff, the supply gets smaller every day. 2023 50 to 100 releases with tons of raw cards ready to be slabbed. 1972 how many releases are there people would consider grading in large quantities? Then how many are already in slabs? How much more would never be considered candidates for slabbing in the next 20 years? How much is left? There just is an always decreasing supply of candidates for grading with old cards. TCG and modern its like a volcano spitting out candidates by the second that could allow them to have a business transaction.
I see people hoping for specials on this and that like oversized cards or coins and pins and that would be nice. I have some stuff I could throw out there. But dont think we ever see bargains there again. I just doubt they want that business. I assume they feel that if they lose customers that prioritize the older stuff they feel they can make up for it with new customers who like Gengar Blastoise and Kenny Pickett /199 Disco Prizms.
Thanks for sharing
Just saw and caught up on this thread. Is PSA really scanning every single card that comes in for review? That seems like a ton of work. Do they also save the scans? That is a ton of storage.
Matt
They do. Before and after. Not sure where the before pictures end up, because once you get the after pictures, the before pictures disappear.
These various viewpoints give one much to consider. Always helpful.
I also will add these examples of grading differences/concerns shows things never stay the same.
SGC grading - Mailed off on the 22, they received them the 28 and graded them Dec 5. Now that's service. I haven't seen the grades yet, so I might be ticked off later, but the fast grading is appreciated.
Wow. And that's with the holiday built in.
Good luck and I hope you only get 10s.
I doubt I get any 10's. sent in 1961 - 1977 cards. If I do get a 10, it will be a doozy. But thanks.
Just got the grades and they are mailing them back.
40 cards total
psa cut outs -
1971 from a 4 to authentic
1973 from a 6 to 8 from $25 to $75
1974 from a 6 to 8 from $40 to $175
1973 from a 5 to 4
1981 from a 7 to 8.5 from $40 to $80
1986 from a 8 to 9 from $25 to $175
Not bad. the ones that dropped aren't a big deal overall. Got some real nice grades. Really pumped. Here are the main highlights
1977 jabbar 9
1975 ryan 8
1975 opc tanana 9 pop 1
1973 ryan 8
1973 munson 9
1972 kingman opc 9 and opc 8.5
1973 wilt 8.5
and several other pretty nice ones.
^^
Those are nice. I love the 73 Munson, but those Ryans will be nice to hold onto.
As a kid in the early 80s I met Tanana at an exhibition game and he was about as nice as anyone could ever be. Was a fan ever since. That guy was on a great career path until injuries forced him to become a different type pitcher. Nice career.
Tanana
240 wins
143 CG
34 Shutouts
4,188 IP
2,773 SO
Not many going forward that will come close to matching those stats. and he was just considered a slightly above average pitcher for his day. Today he would make $40M a year.
also Got a 7 on 1973 ryan perfectly centered. Fantastic 7.
Have picked up a few SGC cards over the years and pleased with the grades, and really like the tuxedo holders and how they feel. For vintage they are becoming a great option for grading. Only have a few right now but they are decent cards and grades. The 7.5 was reviewed and has been bumped to an 8 already.
Keith...
Gorgeous cards! Those look very sharp in an SGC holder...
Doesn't this seen odd and possibly intentional? On both submissions all of the cards you figured would be valued higher are not and your expected lower value appears higher. If there is intention then it's quite a simple and profitable strategy if you're a grader and looking to buy and re-grade to flip.
Let's not assume everyone is our friend or that everyone at PSA has your best interest at heart. Do I think a grader hired in the last 3 years is looking to make a career out of grading and sees a lot of vertical movement in their career...definitely not the masses. Certain industries who work around valuables will attract all types. Schools attract pedophiles (no not every pedophile works at a school and not every school employee is a pedophile), nursing homes attract pill poppers, and what does the trading card and memorabilia industry attract... people who either also like trading card memorabilia or they simply just want money. There is obviously a way to scam the system here and I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least 1 person, or 1 team of people, who is doing something shady on occasion to profit more.
If any company over 100 employees doesn't have 1 bad apple employed from time to time then hats off to them but reality tells us that some employees, and some businesses, are corrupt.
I'm not going to accuse anyone of knowing about any scams at a high level. I do suspect scams are present here and there. I don't expect grading consistency when a scam occurs.
Good results. A 6 to 8 jump is significant. How the heck can a card most people with a decent eye would agree is at least a 7 end up a 6 by Professionals? Purely accidentenal by the trained and qualified grader AND trained and qualified quality control multiple times on the same submission to hoard of people?
If it's purely accidental then a sign needs made "0 days since the last accident".
If I were in control, and kept hearing my fan base complaining, at some point I would mention the issue has been noted and look into it. Then I would follow-up with the dissatisfied people and update them with whatever actions are being taken to address the issue. Depending on the root cause then I may wait to disclose or follow-up until meeting with lawyers if the severity of the issue may result in legal issues.
SGC holders are attractive. I still like PSA holders. I haven't seen a SGC graded card in a holder that I thought was graded higher than it should have been by more than half a point.
I do plan on another submission but my confidence in grading consistency has me on edge.
I will say that I thought the grades with SGC were reminiscent of the PSA grades I used to get back in 2018 and back, I usually got alot of 7,8,9 grades on 70's stuff. I will say that I was surprised by the 1975 Nolan ryan getting an 8, although it is a nice card. It wasn't the best example I had to send in, but was extremely centered. The other grades were exactly what I thought they could be. On the PSA cut outs. I totally agreed with all the grades that SGC gave me (the authentic card was graded 3 times, PSA didn't grade it then gave it a 4 and then SGC said it was authentic).
My observation is that the two companies treat half-point grades a bit differently. SGC seems to place an emphasis on condition while PSA seems to place an emphasis on centering. For example, if the centering of a card warrants no greater than a 7 but is otherwise in mint condition SGC seems more likely than PSA to assign a 7.5. On the other hand, PSA seems more likely to assign a 7.5 to a card that warrants no greater than a 7 based upon its condition if it has near-perfect to perfect centering. My preference would be for both companies to be equally as willing to assign half-point grades in both scenarios rather than favoring one scenario over the other. PSA seems to have gotten more stingy with assigning half-point grades in recent years, which is a shame since they added half-point grades to their standards late in the game for a reason and benefitted substantially back then from review submissions that were based solely on the hope for a half-point bump.
Does sgc offer a review service like psa? Has anyone ever bumped or tried to bump a sgc graded card with sgc?
i didn't see one.
Yeah never saw it or heard of others stories. Not have I tried.
Yes, I believe SGC has this service.
Call and ask
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
https://www.gosgc.com/card-grading/services-pricing
Go here
Have any of yall had success bumping a card with SGC?
Just got the grades for 16 PSA crack outs resubmitted to SGC
1- 1/2 grade drop
1- same
1- 1/2 grade bump
2- 1 grade bump
3- 1-1/2 grade bump
4- 2 grade bump
1- 2-1/2 grade bump
1- 3 grade bump
1- 3-1/2 grade bump
1- 4 yes 4 grade bump
All were stars or LL cards
That's a crazy breakdown. So, what sport and year ranges are we talking about? Vintage, Modern...?