Question: when is a top pop not a top pop.....learned this today.
RobertScotLover
Posts: 834 ✭✭✭✭✭
Ok hopefully I captured someone's attention.
Really 2 questions for discussion.
If you are in the market for a top pop coin what does that signify to you?
And would you rather own a so-called top pop coin or the next lower graded example with huge eye appeal and lets say better strike or some other significant qualifying trait?
Thank you for playing.
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Comments
Answer 1) A “top pop” coin should be THE highest graded or tied for the highest graded. And if it’s the latter, the seller should make that clear. Additionally, if the coin is a “top pop”, only with respect to a variety, that should also be made clear.
Answer 2) It depends upon the individual coins and their prices.
Edited to Add:
With respect to copper coins, I’m OK with “top pop” referring to the specific color designation of the coin being offered. And with respect to Proof coins, I’m OK with “top pop” referring to the non-Cameo, Cameo or Deep Cameo designation of the coin being offered.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Like @MFeld said, it all depends on the coins.
To me, "top pop" modern proof coins are laughable. There are basically two grades - PF69 and PF70. The registry is filled with #1 spots, because everyone has PF70 coins across the board. Frankly, I cannot tell the difference between a PF69 and a PF70, so I would not pay the 5-10X premium to own one. I would rather own the lesser example, and pocket the cash.
Classic coins are generally different. In most cases, MS70 and PF70 does not exist. However, I would still be careful playing the "top pop" game, because it only takes one submission (with relaxed grading standards) to nudge you out. In these cases, I think about how these coins are collected (i.e. there are many high grade early copper coins that are still raw).
When I buy any coins, I look at the grades and think to myself, "Am I going to enjoy this coin $XXXXX more than one grade lower? Where does the enjoyment factor and the money reach an equilibrium for me?" This almost always leads me to buy just below the spike in price (but I have stepped-up a few times, because the coin in question was just that nice to me).
Good luck on however you decide, and I hope you love the coin!
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
And always be careful spending an outrageous amount just to get a pop 1/0. With gradeflation today’s 1/0 is tomorrow’s 2/0, or 3/0 or worse!
With respect to varieties or I guess any coin for that matter.... The only coin listed, non higher/non lower. Seems a coin like that would have a more significant designator.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
You have to read the auction descriptions carefully and do your own research. While a 67CAM might be “top pop cameo” they might just neglect to mention the 68DCAM.
...> @OAKSTAR said:
How about "King?"
All Hail my G6, 'King' of the 1874-CC WB-1s in Coin Facts! . . . until a better specimen is attributed.
As MFeld stated if a non-standard top pop (variety or other), then it should be clarified. I would also include the PL and DMPL top pop along with those noted above and particularly for the Morgans. The PL on the other series are the same but a relatively recent grading change so there could be many others to come. These are however essentially stated or clarified by their grade designator (RB, CAM, DMPL...).
Also often the top pop is relative to the population with respect to the slab / TPG company it is in. So if in a pcgs slab it is being noted from pcgs population perspective but there might be another grading company with one higher.
Varieties are a little unclear. First some varieties are 'major' varieties and don't require variety attribution to get the designation. These have a separate population and not combined with a base variety. Examples the 1823 bust half with the various types of 3. Not a series I am involved in but the wheat cent has several double dies like this (the big one being 1955). Some of the 'major' varieties are not as 'major' as others.
Continuing with varieties requiring paid attribution some are not so popular and many do not get attributed. So a top pop for an attributed variety may have some higher that are currently slabbed as a base / major variety. But they are the top pop for those that have been attributed. Sometimes the rarity rating can give a little insight on this.
Then there is the registry sets. In these a top pop could be a 58+ for everyman's or a 64 for mint state everyman's. As previously noted by MFeld should make all these things clear.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023
The top pop attribution is generally problematic, as it does not necessarily mean the finest example. A case in point would be if one has an UNC Details lightly cleaned but superbly struck specimen of a rare die variety. Now if the highest straight-graded example is a mushy strike XF40, it is commonly called the top pop. Sure, for registry points it might be. And we all probably know plenty of AU58 examples that present far better than MS63. This purity test encroachment is a pet peeve for me in numismatics. Of course, for those who share my sensibilities, there are extraordinary bargains to be had.
My top pop “For the Variety”
Thank you all for replying and hitting all the points so succinctly.
What I learned the other day while contemplating purchasing a so-called top pop from a dealer was that the term top pop is a misnomer and cannot be relied upon for any additional value added purpose ie its too loose a term and meaningless to rely on. To me it is akin to the Wild West of our hobby and in the end should be basically ignored for all the obvious and unobvious reasons that you all so intuitively opined.
As to the term so-called finest compares to the term top pop I too agree with the forum members that I rather acquire the typicallylesser graded piece (often 1 grade lower or so) that has the best eye appeal and other pertinent characteristics that define the elements of grading rather than automatically or blindly pursuing the so-called top pop piece (for technical merit as in the registry domaine etc) that in truth really isn't mostly for the fact that the numeric grade is so subjective and can unfortunately be based on its often market acceptability reasoning nullifying in effect what the sum of the parts means to true & purist grading ie eye appeal, luster, strike, condition etc which should really rule as opposed to the diluting effect grade inflation and loose grading currently produces.
Interesting question - I have followed the principle that I prefer the coin with the highest eye appeal with original toning as opposed to highest grade. My registry set is no longer number #1 anymore and I don't worry about being number#1. Some coins in my set I prefer over higher graded coins putting aside the money factor. Just my 2 cents. Having said that I no longer list other sets on the registry sets because of my preference for eye appeal rather than grade.
To me, a real Top Pop or the ultimate Top Pop 1/0 would be the "ONLY" one graded. Non higher non lower, not just here by our host but out of "ALL" the TPG'ers! Anyone have one?
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
there are some examples where top DCAM is 66 but top registry points is the PR69
‘’Frankly, I cannot tell the difference between a PF69 and a PF70’’
Many collectors and dealers apparently can not either. That’s too bad as for many years, I made a reasonable living being able to tell that relatively easy difference (once you see maybe 5,000 - 10,000 coins to “self” educate yourself).
Wondercoin
Agreed