1811/09 Capped Bust Dime Struck with Severely Broken Dies

Eddi

As is well known, 1811 dimes were struck using unused dies for the 1809 dime. The obverse was modified by punching the digits 11 over the 09.
A total of 65180 1811/09 dimes were reportedly struck. The reverse die failed quickly and increasingly severely, yielding coins showing in some cases multiple die cracks.

This 1811/09 shows very extensive die breaks on the reverse, among the most severe that I have ever seen. The beading is very lightly impressed, specially on the obverse, and some stars are very weak, one of them almost not visible.
Grading this example, for me at least, is a challenge as I find it difficult to distinguish wear from the effects on using a severely broken die.
1811 dimes also show obverse die clashing, and in some cases bulging on top of the cap which may account for some of weakness seen.

Please let me have your thoughts.

How would you grade this example, assuming the advanced reverse die breaks may have impaired the strength of the obverse strike, which I assume is the case here.

Thank you!

lilolme

Cool, I didn't know about this one. Could be an example to have for cracking if one can afford the price.

As far as the question on grading, I don't have the knowledge for it but went looking. I stopped with just coinfacts (no auction) as I found a couple examples.

The first is a pcgs graded MS63. It appears to me to be a little later die state as some of the cracks extend more. This would be in the banner and eagle wings for a couple example areas. Also the clashing on the obverse in a couple of places. It could give an indication of the strike for the die state.

The second is a pcgs graded F12. Again it appears to me to be a little later die state due to cracking in noted areas. I think I see the clashing in front of the forehead but not as much at the date. Wear can play into this.

Last example is a pcgs graded F12 with little cracking, just for reference.
.

.

.

hchcoin

1811 bust dime is one of my favorite coins. Very hard to find a nice one without paying top dollar.

Pnies20

Cool!!!

EastonCollection

one of my personal favorite dates for the CBD series is the 1811/9 as well. The MS-63 above is a gorgeous coin and I am not sure its a terminal die state. If not then its pretty close to a terminal die state. What I can't imagine is how the US Mint minted the coin with the reverse die in such bad shape. The mint held the die together with rubber bands and strings. LOL. BTW - the 63 shown above is in my collection.

relicsncoins

Nice, I have an 1814 dime that was struck with a shattered die.

Eddi

@lilolme said:
Cool, I didn't know about this one. Could be an example to have for cracking if one can afford the price.

As far as the question on grading, I don't have the knowledge for it but went looking. I stopped with just coinfacts (no auction) as I found a couple examples.

The first is a pcgs graded MS63. It appears to me to be a little later die state as some of the cracks extend more. This would be in the banner and eagle wings for a couple example areas. Also the clashing on the obverse in a couple of places. It could give an indication of the strike for the die state.

The second is a pcgs graded F12. Again it appears to me to be a little later die state due to cracking in noted areas. I think I see the clashing in front of the forehead but not as much at the date. Wear can play into this.

Last example is a pcgs graded F12 with little cracking, just for reference.
.

@lilolme,
Thank you very much for taking the time to post your thoughts and of course, also for the pictures.
Based on these it does no seem that an advanced reverse die state causes undue weakness of strike on the obverse. This is what I thought.

I continue to be puzzled as to why star 13 is so weak on my example....maybe it was caused by obverse die bulging?

I love this date (actually, I love all pre-1829 bust dimes).

Thanks again!

And thank you everybody for your comments

These are the three 1811/09 dimes in my collection. I was trying to collect examples in various reverse die states.
Examples struck before the reverse die started to fail are very scarce, per the authors of the CBD-Variety Identification Guide.

EastonCollection

thanks Eddi for sharing the progressive die cracks/failures.
Did you ever see the 1797 JR-1 - progressive die crack in the date. Personally, this is one of my favorite die cracks because you can see the date disappear. Pretty cool.

lilolme

Agree, that looks like a neat collection to generate (die progression) on this date.

I thought that 1797 date thing sounded familiar. I did a thread on that one.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1074571/1797-raised-date

OldeTowneCoinShoppe

I would guess the OP dime grades Fine.

BustDMs

Not a late die state but a decent piece.

RobertScotLover

Easton,
that ms63 is gorgeous and cracked to boot. I wouldn't give it a vote as a terminal die state but LDS I would.

scubafuel

Here is one that is a late state and star 8 is perhaps starting to fade due to the die bulge at the cap?

EastonCollection

@RobertScotLover said:
Easton,
that ms63 is gorgeous and cracked to boot. I wouldn't give it a vote as a terminal die state but LDS I would.

I tend to agree with you that its a LDS but when I show it to some, they feel it might be a terminal ds rather than a LDS. Either way, I am quite pleased I have an example in such nice condition thats a LDS. Thanks RSL.