What grade would you give this raw 1843 Cent? PCGS has spoken.....does this coin look "Repaired?"
RLSnapper
Posts: 579 ✭✭✭✭✭
1843 Mature Head cents usually come rough. I like the look of this one and my 4 new vouchers are burning a hole in my pocket. Help me out with a grade you would give if you were grading for our host. Thanks for your help.
1
Comments
AU-50, probably a 45 for EAC.
Can't tell if there is any luster from the pics but I would call it a AU55. The color looks off, especially on the Obverse, so don't know it that might cause a details grade for QC.
Life member of ANA
AU.
(To me) Unc details, Cleaned and retoned.
Au all day..
53
I love these GTGs on copper Large Cents as I either come off as completely foolish or an idiot savant.
My guess is MS64.
peacockcoins
AU something
My guess is also MS64
A couple of days ago the same member posted a GTG on an 1844 large cent. The majority of guesses were MS64, which as it turned out was the given grade by NGC.
Today this 1843 is posted in another GTG and the majority of guesses are in the AU area. Both look similar in grade in my eyes. Can you point out what makes this coin low to mid AU and the other mid MS.
The 1844 (on the left) is 64BN.. The 1843 (on the right) is being guessed by the majority (so far) as AU.
- Bob -
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I hope I don’t come across as completely foolish (-1 point😉) and doubt I’ll qualify as an idiot savant, but I’ll go with MS63.
Edited to add: Scattered lighter areas on each side make me think that the coin was probably lightly cleaned, but perhaps not to the extent of a details grade.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm in the au50 camp as well. I'm not sure of maybe an old cleaning/retoning either, fwiw
I see it as MS- Not sure about the surface quality in view of the images. I am not indicting this one as cleaned/re-toned without seeing in hand. Doubtful that I would submit this one but it would be a great addition to any type set album
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AU50 rev rim dings and the off color obv but the strike is nice
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So according to the comments, this is anywhere from barely AU to a nice Choice MS?
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MS-something. Agree that there may have been a cleaning in past. Could still straight grade.
Smitten with DBLCs.
AU55. There is slight rub on hair curls above the ear and on the second hair curl above the 4 in the date, IMO.
There is a difference in my eyes to the comparison between the two dates posted side by side. The rim areas have some slider rub if I’m seeing it right. I’m going with 58. I see rub on the coin from the image, and the surfaces don’t look quite as good. I could see it in a 62 holder but my EAC eyes see 58
58, if it straight grades.
Not sure about the color and surfaces, but leaning towards acceptable.
Adding- I didn’t realize how tough this coin is in the higher grades. I acquired mine years ago, got it graded by PCGS, checked it off the list and forgot about it. The petite head/large letters gets the publicity, but checking the pops, it looks to be only slightly scarcer than than the mature head/large letters.
My way of saying- nice coin, @RLSnapper !
Au53.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Looks cleaned to me.
AU58
AU58
My first impression was 63, then after reading the comments I had to go back and look again because the AU58 opinions started to make me doubt, but I will stick with my gut and guess that it'll get a 63.
Thanks for all the feedback. It's greatly appreciated. A number of comments mentioned an old cleaning and I see evidence of it. The is a patch of wispy horizontal lines over the E in ONE. This along with the tiny rim nick at 11 o'clock on the reverse may well keep the coin from a straight grade. The obverse is very well struck and looks 63 to me. The best I could hope for IMO is an AU58 if the coin didn't details grade. The dealer wants $300 and won't budge. I am on the fence about giving it a shot. The last MS63 auctioned for $1850 and it was a spotted mess.....a straight AU58 is $650 in the price guide. Try finding one at all let alone at that price.
I might just give it a whirl......it would be around $375 all in to get it graded. If it details AU I could probably get half back at GC.
Should I go for it? Nothing ventured nothing gained. Thanks again.
Does the dealer you would be purchasing it from generally and regularly submit coins? Do you trust his expertise?
If the answer is yes I'd question why he isn't submitting this one himself. If he doesn't submit and is the old-time dealer who sells raw coins I'd give it a shot.
There is much to be weighed before deciding to purchase and submit.
Edited to add:
I wonder if it has ever been slabbed and then cracked in its past.
peacockcoins
This is one of those pieces that either goes 58 or 63. To me, it's high AU imo... looks to have slight rub over the ear/upper cheekbone area. My opinion might vary if I saw it in hand but I doubt it.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
AU63BN.
For $300 it’s worth a shot.
I’m guessing that you spent some time hunting for one of these, and this is the best value you’ve come across.
That’s part of the conundrum with copper.
If you NEED it in a PCGS slab, you’re rolling the dice. On the flip side, it’s a nice example of a better Red Book variety at a reasonable price, regardless what PCGS might say.
My example:
For a TPG 50. For EAC 40 or 35. Color is not great.
Thanks again everyone for your advice. I just bought it from a dealer in Canada . The same one who I bought this 1855 from. He doesn't submit U.S. coins to TPG. The 1855 straight graded AU50.....this 1843 by comparison looks MS...we shall see in a few months as I will submit it as soon as I get it.
35
It is strong for AU, but I think that is what it will come back as. The coin could very well be a mint state but more so on the lower end. Between the ear and Y of Liberty looks rather flat and I'm concerned over the odd coloring in the fields.
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My first thought was 58. It looks like it has some minor wear to it but I don't see anything beyond that to make it a 50 or 53. But then again I'm not well versed in large cents. So it could easily have problems and I wouldn't know, especially from an image.
Looks like it might straight grade. Copper is tough and EAC folks give lots of leeway with "respect" to the coins. I have to believe it's natural and on the cusp of MS. But you asked for the PCGS standard. So im guessing AU 55, but an MS coin looks to be underneath that "weathered in time" specimen.
A humble opinion.
Which begs the question(s): if it were lightly cleaned but acceptable, would the greater risk be in restoration service , then grading ? Or as a genuine holder with net details as a worst case scenario ?
Not much cheek wear.
MS62.
EAC grade? Just guessing as well. AU52ish.
It might help to look at images of VF, XF, AU and unc, examples. When your guess is that far off from the consensus, there’s an excellent chance that it’s off base.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
58 for me.
Possibly 63…
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If you look closely you can see the differences. For instance the hair above the ear and above the eyes are softer. The leaves on the reverse also appear softer to me.
With that said lighting and photo quality can play a big part.
I'm so far out of my depth on this series I won't even venture a guess, but those are the difference I see right off the bat.
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Those differences point out a weaker strike in my opinion. I take into consideration how the rim and dentils strike up and compare to see if the less sharp details on the high points of the relief may just be due to a weaker strike.
AU58
i agree i dont know what i was looking at its like i was looking at a completely different coin so sorry
Lower end MS. I'm not seeing wear but a bit of softness in strike compared to the 1844.
Areas of weak strike should still display full luster on a mint state coin, an attribute which can't be determined from an image. Areas of rub won't show full luster and quite often will be a bit different in color.
AU50. Rub on hair curl. EAC grade is 40-45.
AU58 possible details grade for old cleaning.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
She came back AU Details...code 98 Damaged. I guess the tiny reverse rim ding showing fresh copper color warranted the code.
It would have been better if she came back cleaned or environmental damage...the coin would have had some residual value. Graded Damaged it has no value.
On a positive note turnaround time was 1 month.....I am a bit disappointed but when you roll the dice sometimes you get snake eyes. I am out $300 and a voucher, nothing ventured...nothing gained except the knowledge that I should steer clear of raw coins.
@RLSnapper said: She came back AU Details...code 98 Damaged.
I didn't see that coming but if I consider my time with Large cents I probably should have. It seems I always got fooled by them and they were doctored/colored or worked on in some fashion. I finally gave up and sold the coins I had. It left a bad taste in my mouth and now I just avoid the coins even though I really like the look and size.
I wouldn’t rely too much on the codes for information. The rims don’t look damaged. I think the issue was environmental damage to the fields.