@BBBrkrr said:
I used to love Mickey back in the day. Dude was so cool.
That card is a beautiful 5. They really need to bring a bit of 'eye test' back into their grading.
Agree 100%. He would walk to home plate like Fred Sanford and beat out a grounder to short. He also had the following quotes that I remember off the top of my head:
"I like the 2nd half of the season more because the 2nd half of the season is shorter."
"It's so cold out there I saw a dog chasing a cat and they were both walking."
"My goals for this season are to hit .300, score 100 runs, and stay injury prone."
That first quote resembles a "Yogism". Must be something in that New York water. It is a funny one.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
Mickey Rivers would sometimes show up at a nearby elementary school in CA to watch his nephew (or some family member) play little league in the mid 70's. As a 10 year old, of course it was cool and weird seeing a MLB player in street clothes being a "regular" guy. I was an Angel fan, but bigger Dodger fan, and it was sad to see him get traded from the Angels to the rival Yankees, and then having to cheer against him in the 77 and 78 World Series.
That bat twirl though.
Wow. I just read through these posts and am concerned. I am a new collector and currently have 20 - 1970's Football cards in for grading (they are in the grading step at this moment). Before I sent them in, I had 3 collectors look at, and provide best/worst estimates on grading. they of course said PSA was the best grading service. Their thoughts and feedback as to the grading of the cards led me to select only 20 out of the 50 I had to submit for grading. All of the cards I submitted were considered to be unanimous 9's by all 3 collectors, with 3 considered to be 10's. I no longer am confident that they will receive these same grades by PSA. Aren't older cards supposed to be graded on slightly different grading criteria than the modern cards? **
After reading through these posts, I am beginning to have a distinct feeling that I may have wasted my money by trusting PSA. Having a card graded seems like a scam in many ways as it is. I have to pay someone $20+ to grade my card in order for that card to have value based on their opinion. That is fine. That is how the system is set up. I got it. However, the differences between the values (perceived?) a 10 and a 9 is mind-blowing in most cards. There has to be a better way. I see that there are many grading services out there, but again, PSA seems to hold the crown on graded card value. A PSA graded card is "worth more" than a BGS, SGC, CSG, et.al., graded card? Why? Why do collectors put up with this? I would imagine that other collectors started these other grading services to try to bring some sanity back to the system. Yet, other collectors continue to use, trust, and rely on PSA grading, when it is obvious that there is something really strange and even suspicious going on at PSA. Every single post is evidence of this. I'm not really looking for responses to this post, as I have touched on several issues in general. I just needed to vent some concerns and ask all of you long-time professional collectors **what are the options? I have a 200k sports cards collection and was thinking about trying to start a little side business as I reach retirement age and have several thousand I want to get graded and put on the market. I now wonder if it is even worth the time and investment to have them graded if I lose money to have them graded in the first place. Sorry for the length of this post.
When in school in NYC, I used to go to games and sit in the bleachers.
My only Rivers story.
A guy accidentally knocked over a lady's beer and she told him he had to buy her another f'in beer! He told her to f off!
She jumped him - I couldn't believe it. She started hitting him with her shoe and some how it wound up in center field.
Was just before the next inning was to start - so Rivers just casually tossed the shoe back into the bleachers without missing a step as he was jogging into position. Was quite amusing. Cops scooped both of them up - not sure what happened after that. This was during the "Reggie" era of the Yanks - so along with Billy Martin - Yanks BB in NYC was quite entertaining.
@scooterb2015 said:
Why? Why do collectors put up with this? I would imagine that other collectors started these other grading services to try to bring some sanity back to the system. Yet, other collectors continue to use, trust, and rely on PSA grading, when it is obvious that there is something really strange and even suspicious going on at PSA. Every single post is evidence of this.
PSA is the best at detecting counterfeit/altered cards. In the 1980s…I bought raw cards and was burned by trimmed cards. I embrace and will only buy graded cards…mostly PSA (135 cards of mine) and a few SGC (4 cards of mine). A graded card gives the buyer a peace of mind.
@mintonlypls said:
PSA is the best at detecting counterfeit/altered cards. In the 1980s…I bought raw cards and was burned by trimmed cards. I embrace and will only buy graded cards…mostly PSA (135 cards of mine) and a few SGC (4 cards of mine). A graded card gives the buyer a peace of mind.
Well put. I'm with ya Monte.
I remember back around 1991, every card I bought from dealers like Barnett's, Goodwin, Superior, Greg Manning, Polo Grounds....were over graded. What they called Nmmt was at best Exmt today.
I bought a 55T Jackie Robinson from Strike Zone and it came in a screw down with a crushed corner - they gave me a hard time on returning for a refund.
Buying from SCD was a crapshoot such that the advent of PSA was a godsend IMO. Altho, some of the 8s I have - today - look more like 6s to me.
@scooterb2015 said:
Why? Why do collectors put up with this? I would imagine that other collectors started these other grading services to try to bring some sanity back to the system. Yet, other collectors continue to use, trust, and rely on PSA grading, when it is obvious that there is something really strange and even suspicious going on at PSA. Every single post is evidence of this.
The set registry is the only explanation.
The registry is, and always has been, a minor part of this.
I have a bunch of cards to send in for my registry sets, but haven't bothered for a couple of years since the huge price increases and now the unusual grading.
I for one am not spending $75.00 to get a $5.00 Coke cap graded. I'm not even sure what the price is on grading bottle caps. The "fun" has been priced out of the registry for the most part.
The main reason is that (almost always) PSA graded cards sell for a higher price than a card graded, at the same grade, by one of the other grading services.
Things could be starting to change with PSA supposedly tightening the grading.
People right now refuse to buy well centered 9's (if 10's are available), are people going to start buying 5's because they look like 9's or 10's?
I have said many times in the past, if another grading service starts selling cards with the same grade, for more money, they will get the lions share of the business.
This will not happen overnight.
Apparently PSA is "swamped" with business, their company is a huge success. Some of us (myself included) are very unhappy with what's been happening for quite some time. Do you really think any business that's crazy busy worries about a few unhappy customers?
I don't.......not one bit. I worked for a big linen company and big companies worry about one thing, the bottom line. We were HAPPY to lose customers that were unprofitable, or less profitable.
PSA might reexamine grading if business drops enough, or they might just want to get out of the vintage market, as it's going to be less and less of their submissions as time goes on.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
I have a handful of 70s Sportscasters from my PC that I got back then as a kid that I'd love to slab, but the grading fees are ridiculously out of range for those. They're more sentimental to me than valuable but no way I'm paying their huge fees for those.
Here's a recent sale of a fairly tough issue POP2/4 higher of HOFer in oversized holder.
Can you imagine paying $75+shipping back and forth to PSA, only to flip it for $6.
@RonSportscards said:
Here's a recent sale of a fairly tough issue POP2/4 higher of HOFer in oversized holder.
Can you imagine paying $75+shipping back and forth to PSA, only to flip it for $6.
That's the gambling aspect part of the grading submissions.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
The 75 Mickey Rivers has a print defect over the name as pointed out. The biggest issue is the smudge/print defect that goes from the top of his hat down to his jersey. It's graded properly. Pic 1 is the card in this post. Pic 2 is what it should look like.
@Chargers49ersLakers said:
WOW!!! I get to add to this thread!! I am so honored that I just received my first PSA 7, 7.5, or 8, in a PSA 5 case!!!! Oh what a wonderful life!!! I can't wait to break it out and place it in a magnetic holder where it will get the respect it deserves. Oddly enough, I won't be getting my 100+ 1957 Topps graded! They are just fine the way they are, and worth more in the magnetic holder.
On the plus side for buyers (assuming the poor seller doesn't know any better) -- I'll need to keep an eye out for new-school "5's" that look like this.
@1954 said:
Patriot Trading- I believe is spot on. While PSA has been harder than any time that I can remember, they are just not letting the small stuff through like before. That PSA 5 1969 Yaz is hard to stomach because it looks amazing. I think it could be in a PSA 7 if you play the game.
Even if that was the case it's still a big change in how they are grading. It just doesn't jive with the grading standards we had all gone off for over 20 years. If they want to be harder then change the grading standards to match.
The standard as shown right now, is bupkus, and wildly inaccurate for vintage stock. Someone needs to kick the AI machine and send it in for repairs when it comes to vintage.
@belz said:
Guess the grade. Oh wait, this was one of my recent graded 75s….just looked through them for the first time..won’t sell any, going to my grave lol.
I'm assuming they dinged you for the smudged surface around Mickey's name (common with this card) but a 5 is is still rather harsh.
Right on, back in the day eye appeal had more play when I subbed these…psa 7 or 8 easy back in the day.
Exactly the thing, the 7 or 8 would be accurate grading. A 5 for that card simply is NOT accurate, full stop. Silliness.
I graded thousands of cards for PSA from
2007-2022. 15 years of subbing. I would like to say I know what I am doing. I completely stopped subbing due to what I see as wild inaccuracies and inconsistencies. I am a collector, if I want a card in a certain grade I buy it. It is a complete waste of money to send cards to PSA. In this current state they lost me as a customer, and how poorly they have run the registry over the last decade I am no longer married to the concept that all my favorite cards have to be slabbed.
With the state of the economy and the money lost by the “investor” or get rich quick guys, one would think they would be a little more keen to the absolute alienation of a once incredibly loyal customer base
@1954 said:
Patriot Trading- I believe is spot on. While PSA has been harder than any time that I can remember, they are just not letting the small stuff through like before. That PSA 5 1969 Yaz is hard to stomach because it looks amazing. I think it could be in a PSA 7 if you play the game.
Even if that was the case it's still a big change in how they are grading. It just doesn't jive with the grading standards we had all gone off for over 20 years. If they want to be harder then change the grading standards to match.
The standard as shown right now, is bupkus, and wildly inaccurate for vintage stock. Someone needs to kick the AI machine and send it in for repairs when it comes to vintage.
Or use a "vintage" machine calibrated by a "vintage" programmer.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
Just got back 14 crack outs that I sent to SGC.
Every single card upgraded
1 card upgraded 1 grade
4 cards upgraded 2 grades
2 cards upgraded 2.5 grades
7 cards upgraded 3 grades
I do not know what to say.
I’m not going to post pics on this forum but if anyone wishes to see the slab with the crackout flip, contact me thru the system
I saw this and initially thought it was a print defect, then looked up PSA 8 and 9 copies. A closer look and it's actually his shoulder patch. The AI machine needs to be recalibrated to include certain defects/details or graders do need to be trained better for specific cards. You figure they'd have a cheat sheet with images or something though.
@scooterb2015 said:
Why? Why do collectors put up with this? I would imagine that other collectors started these other grading services to try to bring some sanity back to the system. Yet, other collectors continue to use, trust, and rely on PSA grading, when it is obvious that there is something really strange and even suspicious going on at PSA. Every single post is evidence of this.
The set registry is the only explanation.
The registry is, and always has been, a minor part of this.
I have a bunch of cards to send in for my registry sets, but haven't bothered for a couple of years since the huge price increases and now the unusual grading.
I for one am not spending $75.00 to get a $5.00 Coke cap graded. I'm not even sure what the price is on grading bottle caps. The "fun" has been priced out of the registry for the most part.
The main reason is that (almost always) PSA graded cards sell for a higher price than a card graded, at the same grade, by one of the other grading services.
Things could be starting to change with PSA supposedly tightening the grading.
People right now refuse to buy well centered 9's (if 10's are available), are people going to start buying 5's because they look like 9's or 10's?
I have said many times in the past, if another grading service starts selling cards with the same grade, for more money, they will get the lions share of the business.
This will not happen overnight.
Apparently PSA is "swamped" with business, their company is a huge success. Some of us (myself included) are very unhappy with what's been happening for quite some time. Do you really think any business that's crazy busy worries about a few unhappy customers?
I don't.......not one bit. I worked for a big linen company and big companies worry about one thing, the bottom line. We were HAPPY to lose customers that were unprofitable, or less profitable.
PSA might reexamine grading if business drops enough, or they might just want to get out of the vintage market, as it's going to be less and less of their submissions as time goes on.
When business drops Cohen and Friends will simply sell PSA off.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
@Harnessracing said:
Just got back 14 crack outs that I sent to SGC.
Every single card upgraded
1 card upgraded 1 grade
4 cards upgraded 2 grades
2 cards upgraded 2.5 grades
7 cards upgraded 3 grades
I do not know what to say.
I’m not going to post pics on this forum but if anyone wishes to see the slab with the crackout flip, contact me thru the system
Upgraded or simply graded accurately according to the company's written standards? AKA what PSA used to do.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
@Harnessracing said:
Just got back 14 crack outs that I sent to SGC.
Every single card upgraded
1 card upgraded 1 grade
4 cards upgraded 2 grades
2 cards upgraded 2.5 grades
7 cards upgraded 3 grades
I do not know what to say.
I’m not going to post pics on this forum but if anyone wishes to see the slab with the crackout flip, contact me thru the system
@Harnessracing said:
Just got back 14 crack outs that I sent to SGC.
Every single card upgraded
1 card upgraded 1 grade
4 cards upgraded 2 grades
2 cards upgraded 2.5 grades
7 cards upgraded 3 grades
I do not know what to say.
I’m not going to post pics on this forum but if anyone wishes to see the slab with the crackout flip, contact me thru the system
There's absolutely no reason for there to be so much variation in so many.
I fondly remember a time not that long ago that my whole game was buying SGC, cracking and sending to PSA. I'd buy at SGC (discount) prices and could pretty much guarantee I'd get the card back at the same grade (sometimes 1 higher) from PSA. That's a win/win all day, because if the card had enough value the price difference between the 2 would easily cover the grading fee.
I stopped doing that when this new grading system burned me several times.
In addition to communicating to their customers they're not really wanting the vintage business they've also eliminated business from collectors doing crack-outs and resubs. Seems weird.
@PatriotTrading said:
I saw this and initially thought it was a print defect, then looked up PSA 8 and 9 copies. A closer look and it's actually his shoulder patch. The AI machine needs to be recalibrated to include certain defects/details or graders do need to be trained better for specific cards. You figure they'd have a cheat sheet with images or something though.
When I first saw the patch I thought it was a defect, because that is a great looking card.
@PatriotTrading said:
Stop already, I have zero feelings invested. You're the one that posted that garbage. I'm just telling you like it is. Whining about it does nothing. Do yourself a favor and buy a 10x loupe or keep wasting money sending sh*t cards. Haha
@PatriotTrading said:
That bottom corner is not consistent with the others. It very well could be the grader didn't care where it came from. They graded that corner like it was rounded and they wouldn't be wrong for it. I mean, there is no angle to measure if you had to. But alas, I'm no grader, it does no good to take out your aggression on me.
@PatriotTrading said:
The Ripken has a stain on the border and the corner is rounded. I know it's probably like that because its from a factory set but that one is pretty bad.
Are you justifying the 5 grade? Saying that 1 corner is "pretty bad"?
Is that a "stain" or a print mark?
Standard definition for an 8 is "slightest fraying of 1 or 2 corners, and a minor printing imperfection"
You think the factory rounded corner (not wear) deserves 3 grades worse than a slightly frayed 1 or 2 corners?
Sorry you feel asking questions is being aggressive. I mistakenly assumed you'd be proud to defend your opinion.
So you're saying that one "pretty bad" corner and a "stain" (printing imperfection?) constitutes a 5 grade.
I find this to be very telling as to why some of the grades are leaving the grading room 2-3 grades below expected.
Yours, and the grader's viewpoints seem to differ from the standard definitions of grading.
I thank you for your perspective, and I hope your feelings weren't hurt too bad as I refrained from asking you any further questions.
Sorry Patriot but when you say " The Ripken has a stain on the border and the corner is rounded. I know it's probably like that because its from a factory set but that one is pretty bad." after looking at that card but If you honestly think those two minor flaws on the 84 Ripken constitute a 5 grade you do NOT understand grading and the grading standards put forth via PSA. Do you consider it a sh*t card?
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I’ve sent the scans to a few who asked, when I get home a few others asked for them as well
Several were 1955 Doubleheaders
Stars from 65 and 68and a couple Henderson rookies
Cracking out 20 more tonight
Wow. I just read through these posts and am concerned. I am a new collector and currently have 20 - 1970's Football cards in for grading (they are in the grading step at this moment). Before I sent them in, I had 3 collectors look at, and provide best/worst estimates on grading. they of course said PSA was the best grading service. Their thoughts and feedback as to the grading of the cards led me to select only 20 out of the 50 I had to submit for grading. All of the cards I submitted were considered to be unanimous 9's by all 3 collectors, with 3 considered to be 10's. I no longer am confident that they will receive these same grades by PSA. Aren't older cards supposed to be graded on slightly different grading criteria than the modern cards? **
After reading through these posts, I am beginning to have a distinct feeling that I may have wasted my money by trusting PSA. Having a card graded seems like a scam in many ways as it is. I have to pay someone $20+ to grade my card in order for that card to have value based on their opinion. That is fine. That is how the system is set up. I got it. However, the differences between the values (perceived?) a 10 and a 9 is mind-blowing in most cards. There has to be a better way. I see that there are many grading services out there, but again, PSA seems to hold the crown on graded card value. A PSA graded card is "worth more" than a BGS, SGC, CSG, et.al., graded card? Why? Why do collectors put up with this? I would imagine that other collectors started these other grading services to try to bring some sanity back to the system. Yet, other collectors continue to use, trust, and rely on PSA grading, when it is obvious that there is something really strange and even suspicious going on at PSA. Every single post is evidence of this. I'm not really looking for responses to this post, as I have touched on several issues in general. I just needed to vent some concerns and ask all of you long-time professional collectors **what are the options? I have a 200k sports cards collection and was thinking about trying to start a little side business as I reach retirement age and have several thousand I want to get graded and put on the market. I now wonder if it is even worth the time and investment to have them graded if I lose money to have them graded in the first place. Sorry for the length of this post.
Sorry Patriot but when you say " The Ripken has a stain on the border and the corner is rounded. I know it's probably like that because its from a factory set but that one is pretty bad." after looking at that card but If you honestly think those two minor flaws on the 84 Ripken constitute a 5 grade you do NOT understand grading and the grading standards put forth via PSA. Do you consider it a sh*t card?
You can defend that rounded corner all you want. Per PSA grading standards pulled from their site, it's a PSA 5. It could have "factory" rounded corners, "factory" print blemishes, "factory" edge dents and "factory" creases. They are all still defects that impact the grade. Again, you can't even measure the angle of it because it's rounded. The other three corners aren't even that bad. You expect a grader to overlook that because it could be from a factory set? Throw in the stain on the white border that stands out like a sore thumb and you get your PSA 5. So yes, it's a sh*t card that never should have been sent in for grading.
Standards have changed. Period.. with AI. Inabilities to be transparent regarding process and practice changes creates the issue and this discussion. Can’t trust anything when nothing is clear.
Standards have definitely changed. If one touched corner and a small print defect on an otherwise mint card is now a PSA 5, then there are millions or 7s and 8s in the wrong slabs. A 5 traditionally has had multiple defects but was crease free. It could be 60/40 off centre, have 3 touched corners, some print issues, etc and still pull a 5 or a 6.
That Ripken….if it didn’t have the touched corner but just the print dot, would it be a 6 then? And if the dot was gone, is it a 7? Or a 10? A 10 point scale implies that a card can have an imperfection or 6 and move down the scale gradually.
Sorry Patriot but when you say " The Ripken has a stain on the border and the corner is rounded. I know it's probably like that because its from a factory set but that one is pretty bad." after looking at that card but If you honestly think those two minor flaws on the 84 Ripken constitute a 5 grade you do NOT understand grading and the grading standards put forth via PSA. Do you consider it a sh*t card?
You can defend that rounded corner all you want. Per PSA grading standards pulled from their site, it's a PSA 5. It could have "factory" rounded corners, "factory" print blemishes, "factory" edge dents and "factory" creases. They are all still defects that impact the grade. Again, you can't even measure the angle of it because it's rounded. The other three corners aren't even that bad. You expect a grader to overlook that because it could be from a factory set? Throw in the stain on the white border that stands out like a sore thumb and you get your PSA 5. So yes, it's a sh*t card that never should have been sent in for grading.
It sounds like roughly 80% of the vintage cards out there would meet your sh*t card criteria which is just insane.
The PSA explanation says very minor rounding of the corners, which is plural, it's not one corner. In addition minor rounding is not the same as minor fraying.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
My experience with surface wrinkles in the "old days"... front of the card- PSA 5, back of the card -PSA 6. I think current "AI" standards call the more minor surface features, that in the past were considered normal surface features, as wrinkles. Just my guess....
Sorry Patriot but when you say " The Ripken has a stain on the border and the corner is rounded. I know it's probably like that because its from a factory set but that one is pretty bad." after looking at that card but If you honestly think those two minor flaws on the 84 Ripken constitute a 5 grade you do NOT understand grading and the grading standards put forth via PSA. Do you consider it a sh*t card?
You can defend that rounded corner all you want. Per PSA grading standards pulled from their site, it's a PSA 5. It could have "factory" rounded corners, "factory" print blemishes, "factory" edge dents and "factory" creases. They are all still defects that impact the grade. Again, you can't even measure the angle of it because it's rounded. The other three corners aren't even that bad. You expect a grader to overlook that because it could be from a factory set? Throw in the stain on the white border that stands out like a sore thumb and you get your PSA 5. So yes, it's a sh*t card that never should have been sent in for grading.
You need to get out of the weeds. Over the last 1.5 years or so (for me) the grades (I do vintage) have been lower than say the past 30 years. I have submitted fairly consistently over that time. I would say the grades are 1 to 1.5 lower than I expected (in many cases) and I have been doing PSA for 30 years. If someone puts up a single card or two, you can critique them to maybe justify the PSA grading standards now, but the big picture is that the grades have gotten lower relative to previous standards. That is the big picture.
@Harnessracing said:
I’ve sent the scans to a few who asked, when I get home a few others asked for them as well
Several were 1955 Doubleheaders
Stars from 65 and 68and a couple Henderson rookies
Cracking out 20 more tonight
@RonSportscards said:
And to think, the guy called me "aggressive". LOL
No point arguing with someone that doesn't know the difference between a print defect and a stain.
Must be today's kids new math: 1(factory cut rounded corner. not wear)+1 (print defect. not a stain) = 5 (shit card)
Sounds like you need to educate yourself on why Donruss factory sets from the 80's have rounded corners. It's definitely not because they were "cut" like that. As for the flaw on the white border. Whether it's a print defect, stain, pencil or pen mark, it's an 80s card on white cardstock with a flaw. I don't own that card and would never have sent it in. No use arguing about semantics. Sending any 80's card that's not a HOF RC with that issue believing it's "Mint" is foolish. Learn from it, adjust and move on.
You need to get out of the weeds. Over the last 1.5 years or so (for me) the grades (I do vintage) have been lower than say the past 30 years. I have submitted fairly consistently over that time. I would say the grades are 1 to 1.5 lower than I expected (in many cases) and I have been doing PSA for 30 years. If someone puts up a single card or two, you can critique them to maybe justify the PSA grading standards now, but the big picture is that the grades have gotten lower relative to previous standards. That is the big picture.
I'm not defending PSA. This isn't about Pre-1980's cards. The argument is the specific 1984 Donruss card Ron and his posse believe is supposed to be a Near-Mint to Mint card. I simply pointed out what I believe the issue is that justifies a PSA 5 and they want to whine about it. No sweat off my back if they want to send in 1980's cards that look like that.
**It sounds like roughly 80% of the vintage cards out there would meet your sh*t card criteria which is just insane. **
The PSA explanation says very minor rounding of the corners, which is plural, it's not one corner. In addition minor rounding is not the same as minor fraying.
At this point, you're just making stuff up. The Ripken is a 1984 Donruss card on white card stock. It's not from the 50's, 60's or 70's. Again, that's not minor rounding. It's different than the other three. Zoom in and you can see at least two have rounded corners. Stop being weird. Learn from it, adjust and move on.
**It sounds like roughly 80% of the vintage cards out there would meet your sh*t card criteria which is just insane. **
The PSA explanation says very minor rounding of the corners, which is plural, it's not one corner. In addition minor rounding is not the same as minor fraying.
At this point, you're just making stuff up. The Ripken is a 1984 Donruss card on white card stock. It's not from the 50's, 60's or 70's. Again, that's not minor rounding. It's different than the other three. Zoom in and you can see at least two have rounded corners. Stop being weird. Learn from it, adjust and move on.
Whew, glad this is somewhat settled. I was beginning to think as my 60's as sht plus with some sht higher and some sh*t lower.
Reminds me of the late, truly great, George Carlin…
“Actually this is just a place for my stuff, ya know? That’s all, a little place for my stuff. That’s all I want, that’s all you need in life, is a little place for your stuff, ya know? I can see it on your table, everybody’s got a little place for their stuff. This is my stuff, that’s your stuff, that’ll be his stuff over there. That’s all you need in life, a little place for your stuff. That’s all your house is: a place to keep your stuff. If you didn’t have so much stuff, you wouldn’t need a house. You could just walk around all the time.
A house is just a pile of stuff with a cover on it. You can see that when you’re taking off in an airplane. You look down, you see everybody’s got a little pile of stuff. All the little piles of stuff. And when you leave your house, you gotta lock it up. Wouldn’t want somebody to come by and take some of your stuff. They always take the good stuff. They never bother with that crap you’re saving. All they want is the shiny stuff. That’s what your house is, a place to keep your stuff while you go out and get…more stuff!
Sometimes you gotta move, gotta get a bigger house. Why? No room for your stuff anymore. Did you ever notice when you go to somebody else’s house, you never quite feel a hundred percent at home? You know why? No room for your stuff. Somebody else’s stuff is all over the place! And if you stay overnight, unexpectedly, they give you a little bedroom to sleep in. Bedroom they haven’t used in about eleven years. Someone died in it, eleven years ago. And they haven’t moved any of his stuff! Right next to the bed there’s usually a dresser or a bureau of some kind, and there’s NO ROOM for your stuff on it. Somebody else’s sh!t is on the dresser.
Have you noticed that their stuff is sh!t and your sh!t is stuff? God! And you say, “Get that sh!t offa there and let me put my stuff down!”
Sometimes you leave your house to go on vacation. And you gotta take some of your stuff with you. Gotta take about two big suitcases full of stuff, when you go on vacation. You gotta take a smaller version of your house. It’s the second version of your stuff. And you’re gonna fly all the way to Honolulu. Gonna go across the continent, across half an ocean to Honolulu. You get down to the hotel room in Honolulu and you open up your suitcase and you put away all your stuff. “Here’s a place here, put a little bit of stuff there, put some stuff here, put some stuff–you put your stuff there, I’ll put some stuff–here’s another place for stuff, look at this, I’ll put some stuff here…” And even though you’re far away from home, you start to get used to it, you start to feel okay, because after all, you do have some of your stuff with you. That’s when your friend calls up from Maui, and says, “Hey, why don’tchya come over to Maui for the weekend and spend a couple of nights over here.”
Oh, no! Now what do I pack? Right, you’ve gotta pack an even SMALLER version of your stuff. The third version of your house. Just enough stuff to take to Maui for a coupla days. You get over to Maui–I mean you’re really getting extended now, when you think about it. You got stuff ALL the way back on the mainland, you got stuff on another island, you got stuff on this island. I mean, supply lines are getting longer and harder to maintain. You get over to your friend’s house on Maui and he gives you a little place to sleep, a little bed right next to his windowsill or something. You put some of your stuff up there. You put your stuff up there. You got your Visine, you got your nail clippers, and you put everything up. It takes about an hour and a half, but after a while you finally feel okay, say, “All right, I got my nail clippers, I must be okay.” That’s when your friend says, “Aaaaay, I think tonight we’ll go over the other side of the island, visit a pal of mine and maybe stay over.”
Aww, no. NOW what do you pack? Right–you gotta pack an even SMALLER version of your stuff. The fourth version of your house. Only the stuff you know you’re gonna need. Money, keys, comb, wallet, lighter, hanky, pen, smokes, rubber and change. Well, only the stuff you HOPE you’re gonna need.“
Happy Friday! 😁
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
Those tiny imperfections never resulted in that low of grades in the past and shouldn't now.
For sure. I posted that Ripken because it's not even consistent with the other 84 D Ripkens I submitted in the 80s specials (the rest were 9/10). I assumed all would be 7-9 (I currently have 9s in my collection with more flaws than that card).
It's not that the card didn't have flaws. It's that the standards seem to have changed recently, and are also inconsistent on vintage (I don't know about modern since I don't do those).
If those two minor imperfections mean it's a 5 then how much variety would be in a 1-4? How would anyone ever even get an 8 or 9?
Modern would be all I would submit now,
As someone said on another thread about vintage 9's are the new 10's and 10's don't exist anymore.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
@RonSportscards said:
And to think, the guy called me "aggressive". LOL
No point arguing with someone that doesn't know the difference between a print defect and a stain.
Must be today's kids new math: 1(factory cut rounded corner. not wear)+1 (print defect. not a stain) = 5 (shit card)
Sounds like you need to educate yourself on why Donruss factory sets from the 80's have rounded corners. It's definitely not because they were "cut" like that. As for the flaw on the white border. Whether it's a print defect, stain, pencil or pen mark, it's an 80s card on white cardstock with a flaw. I don't own that card and would never have sent it in. No use arguing about semantics. Sending any 80's card that's not a HOF RC with that issue believing it's "Mint" is foolish. Learn from it, adjust and move on.
You sound aggressive. My feels are starting to get hurt. LOL
Listen kid, the only person here that sounds uneducated about grading is you.
Pop quiz: What grade do you think this 87 Donruss with this corner received?
I won't leave you in suspense. It's a PSA10. And I have several others like that, that are 9s.
As for the Ripken, I never said the card was NrMt or Mint.
I only asked you why you felt it was a justified 5 and a "shit card", and that's when you got all butthurt, then said it was because of the 1 corner and 1 stain, and that's when I realized you didn't know much about grading. That's all.
@RonSportscards said:
And to think, the guy called me "aggressive". LOL
No point arguing with someone that doesn't know the difference between a print defect and a stain.
Must be today's kids new math: 1(factory cut rounded corner. not wear)+1 (print defect. not a stain) = 5 (shit card)
Sounds like you need to educate yourself on why Donruss factory sets from the 80's have rounded corners. It's definitely not because they were "cut" like that. As for the flaw on the white border. Whether it's a print defect, stain, pencil or pen mark, it's an 80s card on white cardstock with a flaw. I don't own that card and would never have sent it in. No use arguing about semantics. Sending any 80's card that's not a HOF RC with that issue believing it's "Mint" is foolish. Learn from it, adjust and move on.
You sound aggressive. My feels are starting to get hurt. LOL
Listen kid, the only person here that sounds uneducated about grading is you.
Pop quiz: What grade do you think this 87 Donruss with this corner received?
I won't leave you in suspense. It's a PSA10. And I have several others like that, that are 9s.
As for the Ripken, I never said the card was NrMt or Mint.
I only asked you why you felt it was a justified 5 and a "shit card", and that's when you got all butthurt, then said it was because of the 1 corner and 1 stain, and that's when I realized you didn't know much about grading. That's all.
I haven't submitted many mid-1980s Donruss, so I don't profess to be an expert on the historical grading treatment these issue have gotten. More generally though, no way those cards should get 10s either today or 20 years ago. 1970s cards pulled from tight cellos don't get a pass because they were tightly wrapped and neither should Donruss factory sets. It's not an inherent product trait unlike mid 50s Bowman paper 'fissures'. Pulling Donruss cards from wax or rack packs don't yield rounded corners. It's unfortunate that Donruss (and late 70s era Topps for that matter) damaged their cards with poor packaging. But damaged they are and should be treated as such by TPG.
Comments
His nickname was "Mick the quick".
That first quote resembles a "Yogism". Must be something in that New York water. It is a funny one.
Mickey Rivers would sometimes show up at a nearby elementary school in CA to watch his nephew (or some family member) play little league in the mid 70's. As a 10 year old, of course it was cool and weird seeing a MLB player in street clothes being a "regular" guy. I was an Angel fan, but bigger Dodger fan, and it was sad to see him get traded from the Angels to the rival Yankees, and then having to cheer against him in the 77 and 78 World Series.
That bat twirl though.
Wow. I just read through these posts and am concerned. I am a new collector and currently have 20 - 1970's Football cards in for grading (they are in the grading step at this moment). Before I sent them in, I had 3 collectors look at, and provide best/worst estimates on grading. they of course said PSA was the best grading service. Their thoughts and feedback as to the grading of the cards led me to select only 20 out of the 50 I had to submit for grading. All of the cards I submitted were considered to be unanimous 9's by all 3 collectors, with 3 considered to be 10's. I no longer am confident that they will receive these same grades by PSA. Aren't older cards supposed to be graded on slightly different grading criteria than the modern cards? **
After reading through these posts, I am beginning to have a distinct feeling that I may have wasted my money by trusting PSA. Having a card graded seems like a scam in many ways as it is. I have to pay someone $20+ to grade my card in order for that card to have value based on their opinion. That is fine. That is how the system is set up. I got it. However, the differences between the values (perceived?) a 10 and a 9 is mind-blowing in most cards. There has to be a better way. I see that there are many grading services out there, but again, PSA seems to hold the crown on graded card value. A PSA graded card is "worth more" than a BGS, SGC, CSG, et.al., graded card? Why? Why do collectors put up with this? I would imagine that other collectors started these other grading services to try to bring some sanity back to the system. Yet, other collectors continue to use, trust, and rely on PSA grading, when it is obvious that there is something really strange and even suspicious going on at PSA. Every single post is evidence of this. I'm not really looking for responses to this post, as I have touched on several issues in general. I just needed to vent some concerns and ask all of you long-time professional collectors **what are the options? I have a 200k sports cards collection and was thinking about trying to start a little side business as I reach retirement age and have several thousand I want to get graded and put on the market. I now wonder if it is even worth the time and investment to have them graded if I lose money to have them graded in the first place. Sorry for the length of this post.
When in school in NYC, I used to go to games and sit in the bleachers.
My only Rivers story.
A guy accidentally knocked over a lady's beer and she told him he had to buy her another f'in beer! He told her to f off!
She jumped him - I couldn't believe it. She started hitting him with her shoe and some how it wound up in center field.
Was just before the next inning was to start - so Rivers just casually tossed the shoe back into the bleachers without missing a step as he was jogging into position. Was quite amusing. Cops scooped both of them up - not sure what happened after that. This was during the "Reggie" era of the Yanks - so along with Billy Martin - Yanks BB in NYC was quite entertaining.
The set registry is the only explanation.
PSA is the best at detecting counterfeit/altered cards. In the 1980s…I bought raw cards and was burned by trimmed cards. I embrace and will only buy graded cards…mostly PSA (135 cards of mine) and a few SGC (4 cards of mine). A graded card gives the buyer a peace of mind.
Well put. I'm with ya Monte.
I remember back around 1991, every card I bought from dealers like Barnett's, Goodwin, Superior, Greg Manning, Polo Grounds....were over graded. What they called Nmmt was at best Exmt today.
I bought a 55T Jackie Robinson from Strike Zone and it came in a screw down with a crushed corner - they gave me a hard time on returning for a refund.
Buying from SCD was a crapshoot such that the advent of PSA was a godsend IMO. Altho, some of the 8s I have - today - look more like 6s to me.
The registry is, and always has been, a minor part of this.
I have a bunch of cards to send in for my registry sets, but haven't bothered for a couple of years since the huge price increases and now the unusual grading.
I for one am not spending $75.00 to get a $5.00 Coke cap graded. I'm not even sure what the price is on grading bottle caps. The "fun" has been priced out of the registry for the most part.
The main reason is that (almost always) PSA graded cards sell for a higher price than a card graded, at the same grade, by one of the other grading services.
Things could be starting to change with PSA supposedly tightening the grading.
People right now refuse to buy well centered 9's (if 10's are available), are people going to start buying 5's because they look like 9's or 10's?
I have said many times in the past, if another grading service starts selling cards with the same grade, for more money, they will get the lions share of the business.
This will not happen overnight.
Apparently PSA is "swamped" with business, their company is a huge success. Some of us (myself included) are very unhappy with what's been happening for quite some time. Do you really think any business that's crazy busy worries about a few unhappy customers?
I don't.......not one bit. I worked for a big linen company and big companies worry about one thing, the bottom line. We were HAPPY to lose customers that were unprofitable, or less profitable.
PSA might reexamine grading if business drops enough, or they might just want to get out of the vintage market, as it's going to be less and less of their submissions as time goes on.
I have a handful of 70s Sportscasters from my PC that I got back then as a kid that I'd love to slab, but the grading fees are ridiculously out of range for those. They're more sentimental to me than valuable but no way I'm paying their huge fees for those.
Here's a recent sale of a fairly tough issue POP2/4 higher of HOFer in oversized holder.
Can you imagine paying $75+shipping back and forth to PSA, only to flip it for $6.
That's the gambling aspect part of the grading submissions.
The 75 Mickey Rivers has a print defect over the name as pointed out. The biggest issue is the smudge/print defect that goes from the top of his hat down to his jersey. It's graded properly. Pic 1 is the card in this post. Pic 2 is what it should look like.
On the plus side for buyers (assuming the poor seller doesn't know any better) -- I'll need to keep an eye out for new-school "5's" that look like this.
The standard as shown right now, is bupkus, and wildly inaccurate for vintage stock. Someone needs to kick the AI machine and send it in for repairs when it comes to vintage.
Exactly the thing, the 7 or 8 would be accurate grading. A 5 for that card simply is NOT accurate, full stop. Silliness.
I graded thousands of cards for PSA from
2007-2022. 15 years of subbing. I would like to say I know what I am doing. I completely stopped subbing due to what I see as wild inaccuracies and inconsistencies. I am a collector, if I want a card in a certain grade I buy it. It is a complete waste of money to send cards to PSA. In this current state they lost me as a customer, and how poorly they have run the registry over the last decade I am no longer married to the concept that all my favorite cards have to be slabbed.
With the state of the economy and the money lost by the “investor” or get rich quick guys, one would think they would be a little more keen to the absolute alienation of a once incredibly loyal customer base
Or use a "vintage" machine calibrated by a "vintage" programmer.
Just got back 14 crack outs that I sent to SGC.
Every single card upgraded
1 card upgraded 1 grade
4 cards upgraded 2 grades
2 cards upgraded 2.5 grades
7 cards upgraded 3 grades
I do not know what to say.
I’m not going to post pics on this forum but if anyone wishes to see the slab with the crackout flip, contact me thru the system
I saw this and initially thought it was a print defect, then looked up PSA 8 and 9 copies. A closer look and it's actually his shoulder patch. The AI machine needs to be recalibrated to include certain defects/details or graders do need to be trained better for specific cards. You figure they'd have a cheat sheet with images or something though.
When business drops Cohen and Friends will simply sell PSA off.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Upgraded or simply graded accurately according to the company's written standards? AKA what PSA used to do.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Their graded the way they should of been originally
Wow, awful. What were they? 1975T baseball?
There's absolutely no reason for there to be so much variation in so many.
I fondly remember a time not that long ago that my whole game was buying SGC, cracking and sending to PSA. I'd buy at SGC (discount) prices and could pretty much guarantee I'd get the card back at the same grade (sometimes 1 higher) from PSA. That's a win/win all day, because if the card had enough value the price difference between the 2 would easily cover the grading fee.
I stopped doing that when this new grading system burned me several times.
In addition to communicating to their customers they're not really wanting the vintage business they've also eliminated business from collectors doing crack-outs and resubs. Seems weird.
As Yogi said, " Nobody goes there anymore; it's too crowded." Good bye PSA.
When I first saw the patch I thought it was a defect, because that is a great looking card.
Sorry Patriot but when you say " The Ripken has a stain on the border and the corner is rounded. I know it's probably like that because its from a factory set but that one is pretty bad." after looking at that card but If you honestly think those two minor flaws on the 84 Ripken constitute a 5 grade you do NOT understand grading and the grading standards put forth via PSA. Do you consider it a sh*t card?
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I’ve sent the scans to a few who asked, when I get home a few others asked for them as well
Several were 1955 Doubleheaders
Stars from 65 and 68and a couple Henderson rookies
Cracking out 20 more tonight
Wow. I just read through these posts and am concerned. I am a new collector and currently have 20 - 1970's Football cards in for grading (they are in the grading step at this moment). Before I sent them in, I had 3 collectors look at, and provide best/worst estimates on grading. they of course said PSA was the best grading service. Their thoughts and feedback as to the grading of the cards led me to select only 20 out of the 50 I had to submit for grading. All of the cards I submitted were considered to be unanimous 9's by all 3 collectors, with 3 considered to be 10's. I no longer am confident that they will receive these same grades by PSA. Aren't older cards supposed to be graded on slightly different grading criteria than the modern cards? **
After reading through these posts, I am beginning to have a distinct feeling that I may have wasted my money by trusting PSA. Having a card graded seems like a scam in many ways as it is. I have to pay someone $20+ to grade my card in order for that card to have value based on their opinion. That is fine. That is how the system is set up. I got it. However, the differences between the values (perceived?) a 10 and a 9 is mind-blowing in most cards. There has to be a better way. I see that there are many grading services out there, but again, PSA seems to hold the crown on graded card value. A PSA graded card is "worth more" than a BGS, SGC, CSG, et.al., graded card? Why? Why do collectors put up with this? I would imagine that other collectors started these other grading services to try to bring some sanity back to the system. Yet, other collectors continue to use, trust, and rely on PSA grading, when it is obvious that there is something really strange and even suspicious going on at PSA. Every single post is evidence of this. I'm not really looking for responses to this post, as I have touched on several issues in general. I just needed to vent some concerns and ask all of you long-time professional collectors **what are the options? I have a 200k sports cards collection and was thinking about trying to start a little side business as I reach retirement age and have several thousand I want to get graded and put on the market. I now wonder if it is even worth the time and investment to have them graded if I lose money to have them graded in the first place. Sorry for the length of this post.
Probably tasted better than the gum!
Mark
You can defend that rounded corner all you want. Per PSA grading standards pulled from their site, it's a PSA 5. It could have "factory" rounded corners, "factory" print blemishes, "factory" edge dents and "factory" creases. They are all still defects that impact the grade. Again, you can't even measure the angle of it because it's rounded. The other three corners aren't even that bad. You expect a grader to overlook that because it could be from a factory set? Throw in the stain on the white border that stands out like a sore thumb and you get your PSA 5. So yes, it's a sh*t card that never should have been sent in for grading.
Standards have changed. Period.. with AI. Inabilities to be transparent regarding process and practice changes creates the issue and this discussion. Can’t trust anything when nothing is clear.
Standards have definitely changed. If one touched corner and a small print defect on an otherwise mint card is now a PSA 5, then there are millions or 7s and 8s in the wrong slabs. A 5 traditionally has had multiple defects but was crease free. It could be 60/40 off centre, have 3 touched corners, some print issues, etc and still pull a 5 or a 6.
That Ripken….if it didn’t have the touched corner but just the print dot, would it be a 6 then? And if the dot was gone, is it a 7? Or a 10? A 10 point scale implies that a card can have an imperfection or 6 and move down the scale gradually.
It sounds like roughly 80% of the vintage cards out there would meet your sh*t card criteria which is just insane.
The PSA explanation says very minor rounding of the corners, which is plural, it's not one corner. In addition minor rounding is not the same as minor fraying.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
And to think, the guy called me "aggressive". LOL
No point arguing with someone that doesn't know the difference between a print defect and a stain.
Must be today's kids new math:
1 (factory cut rounded corner. not wear) +1 (print defect. not a stain) = 5 (shit card)
My experience with surface wrinkles in the "old days"... front of the card- PSA 5, back of the card -PSA 6. I think current "AI" standards call the more minor surface features, that in the past were considered normal surface features, as wrinkles. Just my guess....
You need to get out of the weeds. Over the last 1.5 years or so (for me) the grades (I do vintage) have been lower than say the past 30 years. I have submitted fairly consistently over that time. I would say the grades are 1 to 1.5 lower than I expected (in many cases) and I have been doing PSA for 30 years. If someone puts up a single card or two, you can critique them to maybe justify the PSA grading standards now, but the big picture is that the grades have gotten lower relative to previous standards. That is the big picture.
PM was sent. Guess I didn't make the cut.
Never got it or you would have
I just checked my inbox and nothing from you so to make the cut you have to get in the game
Well. Alrighty then...
Not terribly important. Just curious about it.
Sounds like you need to educate yourself on why Donruss factory sets from the 80's have rounded corners. It's definitely not because they were "cut" like that. As for the flaw on the white border. Whether it's a print defect, stain, pencil or pen mark, it's an 80s card on white cardstock with a flaw. I don't own that card and would never have sent it in. No use arguing about semantics. Sending any 80's card that's not a HOF RC with that issue believing it's "Mint" is foolish. Learn from it, adjust and move on.
I'm not defending PSA. This isn't about Pre-1980's cards. The argument is the specific 1984 Donruss card Ron and his posse believe is supposed to be a Near-Mint to Mint card. I simply pointed out what I believe the issue is that justifies a PSA 5 and they want to whine about it. No sweat off my back if they want to send in 1980's cards that look like that.
At this point, you're just making stuff up. The Ripken is a 1984 Donruss card on white card stock. It's not from the 50's, 60's or 70's. Again, that's not minor rounding. It's different than the other three. Zoom in and you can see at least two have rounded corners. Stop being weird. Learn from it, adjust and move on.
Whew, glad this is somewhat settled. I was beginning to think as my 60's as sht plus with some sht higher and some sh*t lower.
Reminds me of the late, truly great, George Carlin…
“Actually this is just a place for my stuff, ya know? That’s all, a little place for my stuff. That’s all I want, that’s all you need in life, is a little place for your stuff, ya know? I can see it on your table, everybody’s got a little place for their stuff. This is my stuff, that’s your stuff, that’ll be his stuff over there. That’s all you need in life, a little place for your stuff. That’s all your house is: a place to keep your stuff. If you didn’t have so much stuff, you wouldn’t need a house. You could just walk around all the time.
A house is just a pile of stuff with a cover on it. You can see that when you’re taking off in an airplane. You look down, you see everybody’s got a little pile of stuff. All the little piles of stuff. And when you leave your house, you gotta lock it up. Wouldn’t want somebody to come by and take some of your stuff. They always take the good stuff. They never bother with that crap you’re saving. All they want is the shiny stuff. That’s what your house is, a place to keep your stuff while you go out and get…more stuff!
Sometimes you gotta move, gotta get a bigger house. Why? No room for your stuff anymore. Did you ever notice when you go to somebody else’s house, you never quite feel a hundred percent at home? You know why? No room for your stuff. Somebody else’s stuff is all over the place! And if you stay overnight, unexpectedly, they give you a little bedroom to sleep in. Bedroom they haven’t used in about eleven years. Someone died in it, eleven years ago. And they haven’t moved any of his stuff! Right next to the bed there’s usually a dresser or a bureau of some kind, and there’s NO ROOM for your stuff on it. Somebody else’s sh!t is on the dresser.
Have you noticed that their stuff is sh!t and your sh!t is stuff? God! And you say, “Get that sh!t offa there and let me put my stuff down!”
Sometimes you leave your house to go on vacation. And you gotta take some of your stuff with you. Gotta take about two big suitcases full of stuff, when you go on vacation. You gotta take a smaller version of your house. It’s the second version of your stuff. And you’re gonna fly all the way to Honolulu. Gonna go across the continent, across half an ocean to Honolulu. You get down to the hotel room in Honolulu and you open up your suitcase and you put away all your stuff. “Here’s a place here, put a little bit of stuff there, put some stuff here, put some stuff–you put your stuff there, I’ll put some stuff–here’s another place for stuff, look at this, I’ll put some stuff here…” And even though you’re far away from home, you start to get used to it, you start to feel okay, because after all, you do have some of your stuff with you. That’s when your friend calls up from Maui, and says, “Hey, why don’tchya come over to Maui for the weekend and spend a couple of nights over here.”
Oh, no! Now what do I pack? Right, you’ve gotta pack an even SMALLER version of your stuff. The third version of your house. Just enough stuff to take to Maui for a coupla days. You get over to Maui–I mean you’re really getting extended now, when you think about it. You got stuff ALL the way back on the mainland, you got stuff on another island, you got stuff on this island. I mean, supply lines are getting longer and harder to maintain. You get over to your friend’s house on Maui and he gives you a little place to sleep, a little bed right next to his windowsill or something. You put some of your stuff up there. You put your stuff up there. You got your Visine, you got your nail clippers, and you put everything up. It takes about an hour and a half, but after a while you finally feel okay, say, “All right, I got my nail clippers, I must be okay.” That’s when your friend says, “Aaaaay, I think tonight we’ll go over the other side of the island, visit a pal of mine and maybe stay over.”
Aww, no. NOW what do you pack? Right–you gotta pack an even SMALLER version of your stuff. The fourth version of your house. Only the stuff you know you’re gonna need. Money, keys, comb, wallet, lighter, hanky, pen, smokes, rubber and change. Well, only the stuff you HOPE you’re gonna need.“
Happy Friday! 😁
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
It isn’t terribly important Ron but your comments are very passive aggressive.
Modern would be all I would submit now,
As someone said on another thread about vintage 9's are the new 10's and 10's don't exist anymore.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
You sound aggressive. My feels are starting to get hurt. LOL
Listen kid, the only person here that sounds uneducated about grading is you.
Pop quiz: What grade do you think this 87 Donruss with this corner received?
I won't leave you in suspense. It's a PSA10. And I have several others like that, that are 9s.
As for the Ripken, I never said the card was NrMt or Mint.
I only asked you why you felt it was a justified 5 and a "shit card", and that's when you got all butthurt, then said it was because of the 1 corner and 1 stain, and that's when I realized you didn't know much about grading. That's all.
I haven't submitted many mid-1980s Donruss, so I don't profess to be an expert on the historical grading treatment these issue have gotten. More generally though, no way those cards should get 10s either today or 20 years ago. 1970s cards pulled from tight cellos don't get a pass because they were tightly wrapped and neither should Donruss factory sets. It's not an inherent product trait unlike mid 50s Bowman paper 'fissures'. Pulling Donruss cards from wax or rack packs don't yield rounded corners. It's unfortunate that Donruss (and late 70s era Topps for that matter) damaged their cards with poor packaging. But damaged they are and should be treated as such by TPG.