Question on a Morgan value

Morgan13

I'm confused about this one. It's an 1878 7/8 as you can see with a VAM 41a.
Now do I price it as an 1878 7/8 TF or an 1878 reverse of 78 with a vam 41a.
I hope this isn't too dumb a question because it is labeled 1878 7/8 TF.
Big difference 🤔

may

I would just try the whole label, (ex 1878 7/8 tail feathers PCGS MS64+PL....) quite the mouthful . I tried looking it up in coinfacts, but there was no prices for PL. The MS64+ grade on the non-PL coin was $550, so probably around that considering coinfact's slightly inflated prices.

On another note, thats a pretty nice coin!

coastaljerseyguy

What is your reference pricing guide? Some guides don't list the weak 7/8 in their pricing (PCGS - CDN), some do. Not sure why not. I think most Weak 7/8 are priced higher then a normal Rev 78 but definitely not as high as the Strong 7/8. NIce looking coin by the way. If you bot it, the price you paid is close to its MV. IF you're looking to sell, deduct 10-15%.

may

@coastaljerseyguy said:
What is your reference pricing guide? Some guides don't list the weak 7/8 in their pricing (PCGS - CDN), some do. Not sure why not. I think most Weak 7/8 are priced higher then a normal Rev 78 but definitely not as high as the Strong 7/8. NIce looking coin by the way. If you bot it, the price you paid is close to its MV. IF you're looking to sell, deduct 10-15%.

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1878-7-8tf-1-weak-vam-41a-4/134038

mattniss

I'd venture you'd want to price it as a 7/8TF Weak, as there's definitely a premium to the 7/8TF. Obviously not as much of a premium as 7/8TF Strong, but still very much a significant premium there. It's quite a lot on the label though.

gumby1234

@Ownerofawheatiehorde There are PL prices on coinfacts for these. The 64+ PL is priced at $650.

may

@gumby1234 said:
@Ownerofawheatiehorde There are PL prices on coinfacts for these. The 64+ PL is priced at $650.

Yes, there are prices for the weak 7/8TF PL but not for the VAM 41A which is here. https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1878-7-8tf-1-weak-vam-41a-4/134038

gumby1234

They probably figure that it is covered under the weak 7/8 PL price guide @Ownerofawheatiehorde

bretsan

A 7/8 TF PL Weak has a Greysheet value off $350 in MS64. However, an MS65 has a sheet of $3000. I typically assume a plus grade is about 1/4 of the way towards the value of a higher grade. So, $350 + (3000-350)/4 = $1,013. I looked at PCGS auctions and an MS64PL 7/8 TF Weak VAM 36 sold at Heritage for $1,260. That’s not even a plus grade. I suggest looking at auction records on Great Collections for additional comps.

lilolme

@150K said:
I'm confused about this one. It's an 1878 7/8 as you can see with a VAM 41a.
Now do I price it as an 1878 7/8 TF or an 1878 reverse of 78 with a vam 41a.
I hope this isn't too dumb a question because it is labeled 1878 7/8 TF.
Big difference 🤔

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I think there is good reason to be confused.
I will try to give some information here. Not so much applicable to price but the confusion with the 7/8 and with respect to PCGS. I do not know how others have done this over the years.

So if one goes to the VAM World, then I think if it was an 8tf die that was reworked to 7tf, it is considered an 7/8 tf. Here is the link to that page. The various 7/8 tf VAM (including the various 41) are seen under the category '7/8 Tail Feathers (Long Nock, Parallel Arrow Feathers)'.
http://www.vamworld.com/wiki/1878-P_VAMs

Now to PCGS. It used to be that there would be 7/8 tf strong and 7/8 tf weak. When is was doing some Morgan's I avoided the weak and many dealers would say the same. This unless one was doing varieties or VAM's. So I took a couple of pictures from old PCGS pop reports and they show lines for the strong and the weak 7/8 tf. The 7/8 tf is listed as #7070 (and 7071, 97071) or a regular / major variety.
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At some point PCGS moved the #7070, 7071, 97071 to a subset of the #7074 (7075, 97075) 7tf. Below is a screen shot of the online pop report and the #7070, 7071, 97071 are not shown. (screen shot in two parts to remove ad)
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The 7070 is now a subset of 7074 7tf. Below is screen shot with the 7074 opened up and it shows the 7070 under it. However, also notice that the VAM 41A is under the 7070 base or 7/8 tf weak base but the VAM 41C which is the same die but a later die state (clashing) is under the 7tf base.
This might be because the VAM 41A was already under or a subset of 7070 when it was moved under 7074. VAM 41C might have been added after and placed under the 7tf base. I do Not know - confusing?
If one opens up the 7075 for PL, then the OP coin #40211 VAM 41A for PL is similar.
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However, under the 7/8 tf strong are the other two, VAM 41 and VAM 41B. These two which are the same die are before the die got polished and reduced the visibility of the 7/8. So they are listed as strong 7/8 tf.
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The PCGS 7tf die varieties can also be seen on the coinfacts page. This page also shows the 7/8 tf weak as minor varieties (they are under the 7 tf now).
Today, I do not know if a 7/8 tf weak is sent in to PCGS if it will be automatically noted as 7/8 tf weak or if it will be noted just as a 7tf. That is I don't know to get the minor variety on the label (in this case 7/8 tf weak) if one has to pay for variety attribution.
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DennisH

Over the years, I have come to believe pretty strongly that some sellers price "Weak" coins as "Strongs" (shame on them), and hope that a buyer who who doesn't know any better will eventually wander by and bite.

VAM 41A is a pretty common VAM and, personally as a VAM collector, deserves no premium and is only worth 7TF R78 money. This particular coin is very attractive and looks close to PL, which is not uncommon for 41As. The value wild card with it is the + grade, for which there is no simple answer.