Seated Half Dollars by die marriage

seatedlib3991

My question is so esoteric I will probably be lucky to get two responses. A vest pocket dealer friend of my has offered to let me piggy back some coin submissions on his submission. Means no insurance or shipping costs for me.
The question is, do I pay to have the die marriages added? Is there anybody out there even collecting by die marriage? Do you prefer to cherrypick or do you prefer to find the marriage identified?
For what it is worth you don't have to be a Seated Half collector. Any advice or feedback appreciated. James

Catbert

@Barberian

yosclimber

If it's an 1861-O, then it could be helpful to have the die marriage on the slab,
as there could be some people looking to buy coins minted under the Confederacy.

seatedlib3991

My 1861-0 is the LA W-4 speared olive bud variety. Identified by Fortin. I am afraid it has been awhile since I looked at the popularity of the various marriages. I will have to look at that since this is one of the coins I am considering. Funny you should pull that date out of the air Yosclimber. Thanks for your feedback. james

lilolme

I don't know LSHD. But since you said all welcome.
Could review the pcgs registry to maybe get an idea on the variety collection popularity. I would guess that most of the coins in the Major Variety set are just that - a major variety that one does not have to pay variety attribution to get it on the slab. Could check this in the set composition tab.

The ones in the specialty sets - complete variety set will need the variety attribution (if not a major variety) to be used in the set as that variety. So could check how many are participating in this to maybe get some idea.

LInk to half dollar registry.

https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/half-dollars/16

messydesk

You will have to pay for the die marriage they recognize. I don't know which ones these are or if they recognize all of the Confederate obverse marriages.

seatedlib3991

Thanks for the information. I just assumed you always had to pay to put more info on the slab.

seatedlib3991

I went to the variety sets at PCGS but their does not seem to be a listing by each die marriage.
As far as I know there is not a die marriage reference guide for the 1853-54 years. Perhaps that is something to come. On the other hand I have recently seen Seated Half Dollars with their specific die marriage listed on the holder. I will have to find out the cost differential between the WB numbers and the die marriage numbers. James

lilolme

@seatedlib3991 said:
I went to the variety sets at PCGS but their does not seem to be a listing by each die marriage.
As far as I know there is not a die marriage reference guide for the 1853-54 years. Perhaps that is something to come. On the other hand I have recently seen Seated Half Dollars with their specific die marriage listed on the holder. I will have to find out the cost differential between the WB numbers and the die marriage numbers. James

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More info but again don't know LSHD so this WB number versus specific die marriage is unknown to me.

Here is the link to the complete variety set composition. So perhaps these could be considered. Remember a major variety should be done automatically ( I should say usually but always???).

https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/liberty-seated-half-dollars-specialty-sets/liberty-seated-half-dollars-specialty-sets/liberty-seated-half-dollars-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1839-1891/composition/2701

For the major varieties usually can look at the price guide, pop report or on coinfacts page and then click show related varieties. I am not sure these will exactly match up.

On the price guide or pop report the ones listed without clicking the subset (+) are usually major varieties (see screen shot).
Then on the coinfacts page selecting the show related varieties (above prices) has Major and Die varieties (see screen shot for 1842 medium date).
Usually the major are done automatically but the die varieties require a charge. (I keep saying usually because I can't be certain)
How do they match up to that registry set composition??

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If you click on the die variety on the coinfacts page it should take you to a coinfacts page for it (link below for one).

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1842-50c-wb-8-medium-date/572013

Here is a variety page and it appears these are done:

Liberty Seated Half Dollars by Wiley-Bugert (WB) number

https://www.pcgs.com/varietyfaq

Okay I am well done now.

Barberian

@seatedlib3991 said:
My question is so esoteric I will probably be lucky to get two responses. A vest pocket dealer friend of my has offered to let me piggy back some coin submissions on his submission. Means no insurance or shipping costs for me.
The question is, do I pay to have the die marriages added? Is there anybody out there even collecting by die marriage? Do you prefer to cherrypick or do you prefer to find the marriage identified?
For what it is worth you don't have to be a Seated Half collector. Any advice or feedback appreciated.

It costs $18 to have a SLH attributed to die marriage using Bill Bugert's die registries and have the WB-# printed on the label. I strongly suggest researching what the die marriage is before submitting for grading and attribution.

I prefer to cherry pick die marriages.

Leeroybrown

I agree with Barberian…. I have several more scarce die varieties and none of them have it on the pcgs label…. Cherry picking non-attributed is the way to purchase…. Or raw… even better!

RichieURich

I completed the Liberty Seated half dollars collection including quite a few of the varieties. I was also a full-time dealer specializing in Bust and Seated silver coins for several years. My suggestion would be to examine the PCGS Price Guide to see which varieties have a significant premium, and pay for the variety attribution on those varieties. An example of a variety which I would pay the premium on is the 1851 with the digit in the denticles, because it is a very rare variety and does bring a good premium when one comes to market. Hope this helps.

seatedlib3991

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate the honesty about not caring to have the variety identified. James

Leeroybrown

…as long as YOU know what it is and if it carries a premium/ increased demand i think that’s all that matters IMO

Barberian

@seatedlib3991 said:
Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate the honesty about not caring to have the variety identified. James

I actually do, though. I've been attributing all coins that are attributable to die marriage using Bill Bugert's registries. There is likely very little benefit to doing this now for most die marriages, but I'm getting a kick out of my coins now being posted all over Coin Facts as plate coins for die marriages and dates, including my WB1 1874-CC in G6. A G6! Perhaps down the road, some collectors might select coins with DM designations over coins without them. I hope so or I'm wasting money labeling R3s and R4s.

Southcounty

I generally add it when I submit seated halves, with the available WB numbers, but I have a few specific rules when I submit:
1. If it is listed as R5 or better, or I know it is rarer than the estimates, I definitely get the variety added.
2. If the coin is a high grade example, even if it is a more common marriage, I will add the variety. Die variety collectors generally want a high grade example that shows the diagnostics, that is also variety dependent as for some varieties a VF or XF might be close to a pop top and for others you would need an AU or UNC.
3. If the date and mint is a very popular one for collectors I submit for variety attribution. This is more art than science, but certain dates and mints are much more popular for die marriage collectors and for those it might make sense, especially if you are submitting the coin raw and it is a higher grade coin that clearly exhibits the die diagnostics.
4. As @Barberian mentioned, often times you can be the first variety submitted and or you can have your coin featured as a plate coin in CoinFacts which is fun.
5. Always make sure you are certain of the variety before submitting it for attribution. There are lots of examples where the variety is noted on the holder, but it isn't the actual variety. You would think this would be caught by the TPGs but there are several examples in CoinFacts that are incorrect and that doesn't do anyone any favors, and it skews the populations. Know what you have and use variety attribution to confirm it.

Good luck and have fun submitting. There are more die marriage collectors for seated halves every day with the resources that are provided by the LSCC and sometimes you discover new marriages in the process.

Barberian

Southcounty's rules are good ones to assure some sanity and return in the future for your cost to have coins attributed. It is very important to know what die marriage you have before sending it in for attribution.

To compete in the PCGS SLH Set by WB#, aka, the "Wallet Drainer" set, one has to pay for attribution. However, the grading, attribution, and TV bill for the complete set (979 slots) comes out to $58,740.00. I'm #4 (out of 8 all time) with a completion percentage of 2.86%.

Sometimes you can score a CoinFacts mid-grade "trifecta" or is that a "three of a kind...straight." And these weren't even attributed.

Kick me if I get too obnoxious. Getting my grades, TVs, and coins back has been a week-long celebration. And it was out of the blue, too! Their turnaround times have been greatly reduced to about 2 months or 40 business days for this order. Now they're loading up the TVs on CoinFacts and blowing my mind!

Barberian

@lilolme said:

@seatedlib3991 said:
I went to the variety sets at PCGS but their does not seem to be a listing by each die marriage.
As far as I know there is not a die marriage reference guide for the 1853-54 years. Perhaps that is something to come. On the other hand I have recently seen Seated Half Dollars with their specific die marriage listed on the holder. I will have to find out the cost differential between the WB numbers and the die marriage numbers. James

.
More info but again don't know LSHD so this WB number versus specific die marriage is unknown to me.

Here is the link to the complete variety set composition. So perhaps these could be considered. Remember a major variety should be done automatically ( I should say usually but always???).

https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/liberty-seated-half-dollars-specialty-sets/liberty-seated-half-dollars-specialty-sets/liberty-seated-half-dollars-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1839-1891/composition/2701

For the major varieties usually can look at the price guide, pop report or on coinfacts page and then click show related varieties. I am not sure these will exactly match up.

On the price guide or pop report the ones listed without clicking the subset (+) are usually major varieties (see screen shot).
Then on the coinfacts page selecting the show related varieties (above prices) has Major and Die varieties (see screen shot for 1842 medium date).
Usually the major are done automatically but the die varieties require a charge. (I keep saying usually because I can't be certain)
How do they match up to that registry set composition??

.
If you click on the die variety on the coinfacts page it should take you to a coinfacts page for it (link below for one).

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1842-50c-wb-8-medium-date/572013

Here is a variety page and it appears these are done:

Liberty Seated Half Dollars by Wiley-Bugert (WB) number

https://www.pcgs.com/varietyfaq

Okay I am well done now.

You're not done yet.

Click on "View more images."

Go down to the last coin shown.

That's my coin! Living in a "low rent district" with a better strike and wear than the AU50 above it. Oh, the injustice!
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Now, you're done.