Michigan show theft
logger7
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I got this from Doug Davis of NCIC today. I'm not sure what methodology the thieves will be using to sell, hopefully shops will be on the lookout.
INVESTIGATING AGENCY: Lansing, MI PD
TYPE OF INCIDENT: Theft
INCIDENT LOCATION: Coin Show
DATE OCCURRED: 8/21/23
The Lansing, MI police department is investigating a theft that occurred at the Lansing, MI coin show on 9/2/23. A female suspect took a tub of coins from a dealer’s table during break down. The female had been at the show for several hours and made several small purchases. The female wore a mask and had a foreign accent. Video footage shows her leaving the building and once outside is joined by a male accomplice. The suspects ran across the street and disappeared behind a nearby building. No suspect vehicle is available at this time.
A list of stolen coins can be viewed by clicking the link below:
Lansing, MI Coin Show Stolen Coin List:
1837 3 cent FEUCHTWANGER rare $825.00
1856 bu half dollar $1,175.00
1860-o au58 seated dollar $1,300.00
3 cent encase postage $525.00
1847 seated dollar $675.00
1860-o seated dollar $575.00
1870 seated dollar $365.00
1872 seated dollar $490.00
1877 trade dollar $475.00
1805 bust half dollar xf details pcgs $1,850.00
"1901 dollar vam-15 au doubled inside
ear/hair above/2 olive reverse au55" $800.00
1893 cc dollar ngc vf details $825.00
1904 oms64 dollar $100.00
1923 au50 dollar pcgs $40.00
1901 dollar $725.00
1889-s dollar segs ms60 obv.scratch $310.00
1889 cc dollar xf details ngc $3,825.00
1876 trade dollar ngc au details $465.00
1877 trade dollar $375.00
1889-cc dollar $3,900.00
1903-o dollar unc. $775.00
1875 chop trade dollar $425.00
1877 trade dollar au $375.00
1877 s trade dollar au $625.00
1878-s trade dollar au $425.00
1851 type 1 dollar gold $365.00
1953 type 1 gold dollar $375.00
1854 type 1 gold dollar $375.00
1855 type 2 gold dollar $760.00
1856 type 3 gold dollar $425.00
1853 2 1/2 dollar gold $675.00
1878-s 2 1/2 gold dollar $465.00
1898 2 1/2 dollar gold $450.00
1905 2 1/2 dollar gold $465.00
1906 2 1/2 dollar gold $685.00
1908 2 1/2 gold indian $395.00
1909 2 1/2 gold indian $1,725.00
1911 2 1/2 gold indian $410.00
1913 2 1/2 gold indian $1,325.00
1914 2 1/2 gold indian $530.00
1915 2 1/2 gold indian $1,025.00
1926 2 1/2 gold indian $550.00
1928 2 1/2 gold indian $625.00
7 1/10 oz. gold $1,575.00
1929 2 1/2 gold indian $525.00
1880 5 dollar gold $685.00
1881 5 dollar gold $685.00
1901 s 2 1/2 dollar gold $395.00
1913 2 1/2 gold indian $765.00
1915 2 1/2 gold indian $750.00
1881 10 dollar gold $1,400.00
1882 10 dollar gold $1,450.00
1893 10 dollar gold $1,400.00
1901 s 10 dollar gold $1,400.00
1905-s 10 dollar gold $1,350.00
1897 10 dollar gold $1,450.00
1898 10 dollar gold $1,450.00
1912 10 guilders gold $408.00
1913 10 guilders gold $408.00
1915 10 guilders gold $408.00
1910 10 dollar gold $1,550.00
1915 20 francs gold $393.00
1930 20 francs gold $393.00
1935 20 francs gold $393.00
1949 20 francs gold $393.00
1877 10 guilders gold $408.00
1877 10 guilders gold $408.00
1889 10 guilders gold $408.00
1933 10 guilders gold $408.00
1895 20 mark gold $477.00
1887 sovereign $487.00
1909 sovereign $487.00
1911 sovereign $487.00
1913 sovereign $487.00
1931 sovereign $487.00
1924 5 peso gold $487.00
20 kroner gold $533.00
1 oz panda gold 2016 $2,040.00
1982 1 oz gold panda $4,600.00
2 100 korona gold $4,080.00
2 krugerrands $4,080.00
1 oz gold eagle $2,040.00
1894 20 dollar gold $2,100.00
1895 20 dollar gold $2,100.00
1881-s 20 dollar gold $2,100.00
1925 20 dollar gold $2,100.00
1926 20 dollar gold $2,100.00
1927 20 dollar gold $2,100.00
1928 20 dollar gold $2,100.00
1898 s 20 dollar gold $2,100.00
1910 20 dollar gold $2,100.00
1910 s 20 dollar gold $2,100.00
1914-s 20 dollar gold $2,100.00
1908 20 dollar gold $2,100.00
1924 20 dollar gold $2,100.00
1888 ngc ms62 dollar $70.00
1888-o vam-4 ddo hot lips dollar $1,250.00
1888-o ms63 ngc dollar $95.00
1889-o pcgs ms61 dollar $430.00
1889-o pcgs ms62 dollar $445.00
1889-s ngc ms64 dollar $1,250.00
1890 ngc ms62 dollar $70.00
1891 ngc ms64 dollar $575.00
1885 pcgs au50 indian cent $80.00
1908 ngc ms63 rb indian cent $150.00
1908-s anacs f15 indian cent $110.00
1922 weak d pcgs ms63 rb cent $1,050.00
1834 pcgs au details half dime $325.00
1887 pcgs ms65 dollar $235.00
1887 pcgs ms63 dollar $80.00
1887 mcclaren collection ngc ms64 dollar $100.00
1838 anacs ex40 cent $115.00
1916-s pcgs nickel au50 $110.00
1920 -d ngc vf30 nickel $145.00
1921-s pcgs smoothed vf details nickel $240.00
1926 -s ngc vf35 nickel $445.00
1926-s vf20 nickel $135.00
1865 ms-65 3 cent nickel $390.00
1916 pcgs vf35 quarter $45.00
1899 pcgs ms65 dollar $725.00
1900 pcgs ms65 dollar $200.00
1881-s pcgs ms64 dollar $110.00
1884-cc pcgs ms63 dollar $375.00
1885 gec ms67 dollar $1,125.00
1883 anacs ef details 10 cents hawaii $150.00
1883 anacs au details 25 cents hawaii $150.00
1871 pcgs au details quarter $575.00
1866 nickel $190.00
1867 nickel $130.00
1867 nickel w/rays $275.00
1868 nickel $195.00
1868 nickel $215.00
1870 nickel $320.00
1872 nickel $30.00
1875 nickel $335.00
1882 nickel $115.00
1852 3 cent silver $45.00
1883 nickel $145.00
1835 bust dime s,d. $310.00
1835 l.d. dime $310.00
1837 s s.d. no stars half dime $575.00
1837 l.d. no stars half dime $600.00
1872-s half dime $225.00
1837 FEUCHTWANGER CENT $125.00
1807 bust dime $525.00
1809 bust dime $700.00
1811/9 bust dime $225.00
1814 bust dime $100.00
1820 sm-o bust dime $150.00
1820 statesofamerica bust dime rare $1,200.00
1824/2 bust dime $110.00
1829 sq. base 2 sm 10 bust dime $130.00
1830 bust dime $265.00
1832 bust dime $125.00
1833 bust dime $425.00
1834 sm-4 bust dime $265.00
1834 bust dime $145.00
1835 bust dime $70.00
188 3hawaii dime $60.00
1883 hawaii quarter $115.00
1912-s v nickel g $110.00
1930 gem nickel $145.00
1936 gem nickel $90.00
1834 bust dime $125.00
1875-s 20 cents g $120.00
1916 s.l. quarter full date rare $7,500.00
1838 reeded edge half dollar $90.00
1928-p au/bu quarter $175.00
1877 seated half dollar $150.00
1892 columbia half dollar $20.00
Alaska mini gold nugget $10.00
1857 seated half dollar xf45 $175.00
1858-o seated half dollar xf $175.00
1877 seated half dollar au $145.00
1941-d gem w.l.half dollar $450.00
1944-p gem w.l.half dollar ms67 $450.00
1877 au seated half dollar $225.00
1938-d w.l. half dollar $80.00
1942 w.l. half dollar au $27.00
178? 2 real spain $200.00
1878-cc dollar ms64 $425.00
1890 cc dollar icg ms64 $1,275.00
1896 proof dollar $3,650.00
1876-s ms61 dollar ntc $85.00
1879-0 ms62 ngc pl $245.00
1889 dollar xf black holder $35.00
1880-s au58 dollar ngc $55.00
1880-s ms67 pl dollar $940.00
1881 ms64 dollar pcgs $125.00
1882-s ms64 dollar ngc $110.00
1882 ms?? Dollar $110.00
1882-s ms62 dollar ngc $75.00
1882-s ms65 dollar ngc $245.00
1883 ms64 dollar ngc $115.00
1883-cc ms63 anacs dollar $330.00
1883-cc ms64 dollar icg $345.00
1884-cc ms63 ngc dollar $330.00
1884-o ms64 dollar pcgs $180.00
1884-s au68 dollar pcgs $4,000.00
1884-s ms60 dollar segs $7,300.00
1884-o ms63 dollar pcgs $75.00
1884-o ms63 dollar ngc $70.00
1884-o ms64 dollar pcgs $100.00
1885-o ms663 dollar pcgs $80.00
1885-s ms65 dollar p.l. pcgs $1,600.00
1886 ms65 dollar ngc $190.00
1886 ms67 dollar gec $1,125.00
"13 gold krugerrands
in blue PCGS SLAB CONTAINER
" $26,520.00
"8 -$20 GOLD ST. GAUDENS
in blue PCGS SLAB CONTAINER" $16,800.00
1- 100 KORONA GOLD $2,030.00
"1/10 OZ GOLD
in blue PCGS SLAB CONTAINER" $225.00
$202,552.00
"APOXIMATELY 45 SLABBED DOLLARS
FROM 1887 TO 1921 & SLABBED DOUBBLE
EDGE PRESIDENT DOLLARS in black
storage box." " Aprox.
$30000 "
Comments
Must have been a large tub.
Wow that is a big loss.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Wow I hope the scoundrels are apprehended and property returned to the owner.
First things first, I am glad nobody was hurt.
She must have been a power lifter or the case or tub had wheels. That's a lot of coins. How the heck did she get away?
No security?
There has got to be more to this story.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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You’d think this would have made the local news. I tried to find the story but every search only produced this post as a result. Seems like a quarter million dollar heist would have at least made it to Channel 10.
Yikes. That's the sort of thing that can wipe a dealer out financially. There's too many of these stories. Sooner or later show organizers are going to need to take security a little more seriously. To be technically correct, it doesn't sound like a robbery (theft with threats of harm). Probably not even burglary (theft after entering a building illegally). Probably best described as simply as theft.
Is eleven days a long time to have learned about it here? (Serious inquiry)
You just have to pay attention to what is going on.
I suspect that if a group of smash and grab thieves (like those who have robbed jewelry stores, and clothing stores) decided to smash and grab at a coin show bourse (national regional or local) the thieves would not have the success that usually experience.
I would think that dealers and others in attendance at coin shows would not stand by and do nothing.
In the end I would think that the number of thieves who get away (alive and uninjured) would be less than the number of thieves who enter the bourse. Some would be taken to jail, some would be taken to a hospital and some would be taken to a morgue.
That's because the owners being stolen from and their friends are right there and care a lot.
In addition to liability based corporate policies forbidding intervention, if you work at Best Buy or Nordstrom's or whatever, who cares if they steal stuff? Or, more accurately, who cares enough to intervene and endanger their health and/or job to protect some faceless corporate behemoth?
"Tub of coins" - hmmmmmm.........
Given the number of uncertified coins, that's going to be a tough one.
That is a massive haul!
I’m hoping all of that gold doesn’t just get melted for a quick flip.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
I would be really curious to know what kind of security they had at that show.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
Every theft eventually affects us all in the higher prices that will come due to the higher insurance premiums those firms will have to pay in the future. Yes many of these companies do have policies that forbid their employees intervening, but it would be silly to think that these crimes against "a faceless corporate behemoth" have no effect on you or me in the end.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I agree but that's not really the point I was making or responding to. There is very little chance that any one random store employee of a big corporation owned store who is actually in a position to affect an individual theft case gives one single whit for the greater good or incremental increase in the cost of goods due to increasing insurance premiums. These are mostly minimum wage workers who oftentimes can probably not even afford to shop at the stores they work at.
Whereas the individual owner of a coin inventory at a show cares very, very much about that inventory and likely his peers at the next table or his friends and clients right there also care a lot.
In today's environment??? You're kidding right? Open and advertised invitation...............come and get it!
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
That was one heck of a tub of coins! (The suspects ran across the street and disappeared behind a nearby building.) And she was running down the street with it?
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Tub or barrel? Did she have a dolly to move them or is she wonder woman? That's A LOT of coins.
Either way hope they get them back.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
I don't have any other information than what Doug Davis posted in a broadcast on this:
(817) 723-7231
info@numismaticcrimes.org
numismaticcrimes.org
Did they mean to describe it as “a rubbermaid tote that you store your Christmas decorations in” instead of a tub? I was expecting to see a list of a smattering of foreign coins or single proofs in 2x2’s. That’s a heavy hit to the dealer. I hope they are insured and the loss is covered. And I certainly hope they catch the sob’s. And nonethless masks are still acceptable and maybe even now being encouraged at shows.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
One of the worst heist's I've heard about since I became a member on the forum. Hope the dealer recovers as much stock as they can. Maybe there were cameras to record the theft.
All I can say is, how is this possible?
How could any coin dealer take his eye off the ball when the ball is gilded with gold?
Typical Lansing. I hate this town.
Who is the woman who was running with what had to be 30-50lbs. and awkwardly large??
Bad.
The pardon is for tyrants. They like to declare pardons on holidays, such as the birthday of the dictator, or Christ, or the Revolution. Dictators should be encouraged to keep it up. And we should be encouraged to remember that the promiscuous dispensation of clemency is not a sign of political liberality. It is instead one of those valuable, identifying marks of tyranny.
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Lowlife scumbags, hopefully they get caught soon and get the punishment they deserve nameingly a beat down before jail time
A horrific loss for the dealer…However you just have to wonder why they would not have been more careful….with that much value at stake you simply must have an assistant keeping a sharp lookout over your possessions…
Just seems like complacency…
Perhaps we will here all the details and something will make sense here …
Doesn't sound like the typical coins that you find in bins or tubs. Usually nicer coins are in display cases. Bins are reserved for dreck usually.
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Probably tote with wheels? Dealer was likely loaded up for exiting, got distracted, criminal saw their opportunity.
Why did the coin show not require all the non- dealer personnel to exit the area during break-down.
Was this dealer closing up before the show was over?
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
I am really anxious to hear more details about this theft. I can tell you at the annual South Carolina state show, we have round-the clock armed security who are off-duty Sheriff's deputies who closely monitor every Entrance/Exit point along with plainclothes security roaming the floor. They are especially vigilant during setup and breakdown and we do have cameras all over the place. I ought to know - as SCNA Treasurer, I write the check to pay for the Security. Col. Ellsworth has consistently rated us in the top ten of most secure shows. (and yes, we do have Coin Show signs outside).
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
As has been pointed out (but bears repeating), that was a theft, not a robbery.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Thanks, updated.
Thank you.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
At risk of taking this thread off-topic -
The SCNA show is one of my absolute favorite shows. I will attend again this year and am signed up to take the ANA’s Counterfeit Detection class that’s being offered in conjunction with the show.
The show is the last weekend of October in Greenville, SC. If you haven’t been to Greenville, it’s worth the trip - awesome downtown area and often makes the list of best places to live in the US.
Hope to see people there!
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Why knowingly risk it? No matter how much you might like that show, it’s off topic.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
None, if it's the show I'm thinking of. There's a small coin show the first Saturday of every month at the knights of Columbus hall on grand river ave. Usually the same 6-8 dealers set up
https://www.coinshows-usa.com/Lansing-Coins-and-More
Most successful theft of opportunity in history.
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Ok what am I missing here, this seems like a lot of very expensive inventory to take to a very small local show. Am I just being too much of a cynic?
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Why start or engage with a thread that will inevitably result in speculation and victim-blaming given how few facts are known? To stir everyone up about crime? To blame the victim for not taking XYZ precaution? To promote other shows that have 'better' security? To remind everyone how 'dangerous' certain host-cities are?
There are so few facts here that it will be very difficult for anyone to learn from this incident in any meaningful way.
Editted to add that it's perhaps marginally useful to have a list of the stolen property if you are a dealer not already subscribed to NCIC's email blast, but without cert numbers or coin descriptions it's not going to be terribly helpful either.
I'd think with a theft this large the FBI would be involved. So anyone knowingly buying a coin on this list that walks into a pawn, coin shop or a deal online would be liable.
Why haven't we seen any of this video?
Should be all over the news.
First I was thinking maybe a man dressed as a woman, but according to the report.
Just thinking outside of the box.
I'm not paranoid, BUT that's a lot of metal in one box.
I'm surprised that venues of this nature don't have a staging area with Armed Guards.
ONE PERSON walked out with ALL those coins and NO ONE was suspicious? They must have hid them well......
Everyone probably assumed it was just a coin dealer leaving the show early but who knows.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@logger7
Did the theft occur on 8/21/23 or 9/2/23? The post mentions both dates
Short of an armed robbery, I would say it’s the dealers fault
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Blame the victim?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If he left that kind of value unattended, blaming him seems quite reasonable to me.
Edited to add: I apologize for not having made it clear that I place the vast majority of the blame on the thieves. I don't know the precise circumstances of this incident. However, in general, unfortunately, if a dealer fails to be vigilant, he can make it easier for the bad guys to succeed.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I spoke with Doug who said it was whenever the show was, a search turned up this Lansing first Saturday show so I'm assuming probably Sept 2.: https://www.coinshows-usa.com/Lansing-Coins-and-More
He said surveillance was poor and it seems to be the same eastern European syndicate that has had similar thefts and heists.