@TwoSides2aCoin said:
Lest we forget the letters associated with the numbers. Now we need to know if it's an "A" coin, a "B" coin, or a "C" coin. You cannot tell by the color of a sticker, but you know if the experts say it's B or C coin it isn't worth buying. RUBBISH.
ridiculous and cool = funny
What experts have have said if it’s a B or C coin, it isn’t worth buying? I haven’t heard anyone say that - not even extremely particular dealers.
Maybe not spoken Feld. However the implications are there, namely by categorizing a coins grade into subsections. It's odd, at best and I personally think it muddles the grading system more than it warrants collectibility. Call it a C coin and most will say " ewww" , bottom of the totem pole.
I understand and agree about the negative connotation of “C” coins. It was your inclusion of “B” coins in your comment that threw me.
Even C coins have their price. It's like saying that a 64 isn't worth buying but a 65 is. They are both potentially worth buying but the price point is and should be different for a 65C vs. a 65AB.
Now, if some people choose to not buy any "C" coins because of fears of problems rather than simply being at the low end of the grade, that is their choice. A choice they could also make WITHOUT the sticker. If I trust my eye, and I do, I would pay more for a nicer coin in the same holder as a less nice coin - sticker or no sticker.
People keep arguing about the stickers as though they were handed down by God and forced upon the subservient masses. CAC was successful because the stickers were valued by consumers for the information they provided. As I've said before but will keep repeating, I will bid more aggressively on the CAC coin than the non-CAC coin for the simple reason that I have more confidence on coins that I'm usually not seeing in hand.
In conclusion, what you're saying is you have less confidence in the grading companies and all of your trust is blindly given to CAC because they(JA) reviewed the TPG's grade and approved ?
I didn’t read it that way at all.
I read this part, that way :
"As I've said before but will keep repeating, I will bid more aggressively on the CAC coin than the non-CAC coin for the simple reason that I have more confidence on coins that I'm usually not seeing in hand."
Interesting.
If your doctor wanted to amputate your foot, would you just do it or seek a second opinion?
You can't have a CAC sticker without a first opinion. I would much rather have two opinions before I reach deeply into my pocket. And those are two concurring opinions.
But do you need three, four, or more opinions?
Let’s take a IHC… We could have an Eagle Eye, CAC, PQ, and now CMQ. Is five opinions enough? If someone needs that much assurance, it is time to find a new hobby. And unlike the medical example given, the purchase of coins (I.e. luxury item purchased as part of a hobby) is hardly life changing in any meaningful way.
I have no interest in PQ or Eagle Eye. It's too soon on CMQ. But, every concurrent opinion increases confidence. Show me a PCGS CAC, CMQ coin, I may well bid higher. I also may not. There is a max value: my sight seen value.
So without those stickers there is (significantly) less confidence. Phrased another way, it shows that many collectors do not trust the services without more trusted opinion(s) providing corroboration (cf. the large CAC only and PCGS-CAC only cohorts). So you’re validating my earlier comment that sticker mania suggests less than full trust of the grading services, a comment you were unsure about. 😉
@Zsmartie said:
I realize many buyers lean toward CAC approved coins, however, I had an experience lately that made the decision no more CAC submittal. I sent in eight high grade Morgan dollars through Wayne Miller for CAC approval. All eight were rejected and Wayne could not believe it. He said “what is going on there with CAC?” So CAC sent them back to Wayne and in the shipping the package fell out of the truck and they drove over it. A number of the holders were broken and CAC agreed to pay for the new holders. Some of these holders were the old NGC holders so I was not happy. Then NGC said they would not re-holder one coin (1879-S MS68) as one could slide the coin out and insert another one. Even though only CAC and NGC ever touched the coin holders. Then NGC got a call from Wayne and NGC agreed to re-holder it. So after three months I received my coins back and no green beans and new holders.
That sucks.
That scenario is part of my reluctance to send my stuff to CAC for stickers. I’m afraid something will happen to my old holders.
@TwoSides2aCoin said:
Lest we forget the letters associated with the numbers. Now we need to know if it's an "A" coin, a "B" coin, or a "C" coin. You cannot tell by the color of a sticker, but you know if the experts say it's B or C coin it isn't worth buying. RUBBISH.
ridiculous and cool = funny
What experts have have said if it’s a B or C coin, it isn’t worth buying? I haven’t heard anyone say that - not even extremely particular dealers.
Maybe not spoken Feld. However the implications are there, namely by categorizing a coins grade into subsections. It's odd, at best and I personally think it muddles the grading system more than it warrants collectibility. Call it a C coin and most will say " ewww" , bottom of the totem pole.
I understand and agree about the negative connotation of “C” coins. It was your inclusion of “B” coins in your comment that threw me.
Even C coins have their price. It's like saying that a 64 isn't worth buying but a 65 is. They are both potentially worth buying but the price point is and should be different for a 65C vs. a 65AB.
Now, if some people choose to not buy any "C" coins because of fears of problems rather than simply being at the low end of the grade, that is their choice. A choice they could also make WITHOUT the sticker. If I trust my eye, and I do, I would pay more for a nicer coin in the same holder as a less nice coin - sticker or no sticker.
People keep arguing about the stickers as though they were handed down by God and forced upon the subservient masses. CAC was successful because the stickers were valued by consumers for the information they provided. As I've said before but will keep repeating, I will bid more aggressively on the CAC coin than the non-CAC coin for the simple reason that I have more confidence on coins that I'm usually not seeing in hand.
In conclusion, what you're saying is you have less confidence in the grading companies and all of your trust is blindly given to CAC because they(JA) reviewed the TPG's grade and approved ?
I didn’t read it that way at all.
I read this part, that way :
"As I've said before but will keep repeating, I will bid more aggressively on the CAC coin than the non-CAC coin for the simple reason that I have more confidence on coins that I'm usually not seeing in hand."
Interesting.
If your doctor wanted to amputate your foot, would you just do it or seek a second opinion?
You can't have a CAC sticker without a first opinion. I would much rather have two opinions before I reach deeply into my pocket. And those are two concurring opinions.
But do you need three, four, or more opinions?
Let’s take a IHC… We could have an Eagle Eye, CAC, PQ, and now CMQ. Is five opinions enough? If someone needs that much assurance, it is time to find a new hobby. And unlike the medical example given, the purchase of coins (I.e. luxury item purchased as part of a hobby) is hardly life changing in any meaningful way.
I have no interest in PQ or Eagle Eye. It's too soon on CMQ. But, every concurrent opinion increases confidence. Show me a PCGS CAC, CMQ coin, I may well bid higher. I also may not. There is a max value: my sight seen value.
So without those stickers there is (significantly) less confidence. Phrased another way, it shows that many collectors do not trust the services without more trusted opinion(s) providing corroboration (cf. the large CAC only and PCGS-CAC only cohorts). So you’re validating my earlier comment that sticker mania suggests less than full trust of the grading services, a comment you were unsure about. 😉
You're overinterpreting it. My uncertainty is a question of grade variance not TPG error. A CAC coin is supposed to be AB and not C. Even if the TPG grade is 100% accurate, the AB should be worth more than a C. Without the sticker, I have to assume that it's a C or worse.
But, of course, no one should have 100% confidence in one opinion when that opinion is the only thing guiding your bidding.
You should see the PCGS puttyied gold coin I bought 2 weeks ago. I bought it a bullion, so I didn't care. But if it were a 65 Saint instead of a 65 Louis Armstrong, someone would have been unhappy.
@Coinscratch said:
Learn to grade children or else
Beyond that, I should add that the putty was not prominent in the auction photo. While I suspected haziness from the photo, the mess I received was unexpected.
I scrapped it profitably, so no harm. But if I were buying for type, I would have wanted the CAC sticker. And that's what it's good for, added confidence in a coin that I could not view in hand.
I don't know why people want to make CAC into anything more or less than that.
@rec78 said:
Not to me. I still collect mostly raw coins, always have.
This comment sums things up for me as well... but if people want to spend ridiculous premiums on coins with colored stickers on them. I have no problem what so ever.
@Coinscratch said:
Learn to grade children or else
Beyond that, I should add that the putty was not prominent in the auction photo. While I suspected haziness from the photo, the mess I received was unexpected.
I scrapped it profitably, so no harm. But if I were buying for type, I would have wanted the CAC sticker. And that's what it's good for, added confidence in a coin that I could not view in hand.
I don't know why people want to make CAC into anything more or less than that.
I did not see the photo or the coin or even most of the discussion but what I can see from that screen shot is noise.
@Coinscratch said:
Learn to grade children or else
Beyond that, I should add that the putty was not prominent in the auction photo. While I suspected haziness from the photo, the mess I received was unexpected.
I scrapped it profitably, so no harm. But if I were buying for type, I would have wanted the CAC sticker. And that's what it's good for, added confidence in a coin that I could not view in hand.
I don't know why people want to make CAC into anything more or less than that.
I did not see the photo or the coin or even most of the discussion but what I can see from that screen shot is noise.
Comments
So without those stickers there is (significantly) less confidence. Phrased another way, it shows that many collectors do not trust the services without more trusted opinion(s) providing corroboration (cf. the large CAC only and PCGS-CAC only cohorts). So you’re validating my earlier comment that sticker mania suggests less than full trust of the grading services, a comment you were unsure about. 😉
That sucks.
That scenario is part of my reluctance to send my stuff to CAC for stickers. I’m afraid something will happen to my old holders.
My YouTube Channel
I think that's where it started.
You're overinterpreting it. My uncertainty is a question of grade variance not TPG error. A CAC coin is supposed to be AB and not C. Even if the TPG grade is 100% accurate, the AB should be worth more than a C. Without the sticker, I have to assume that it's a C or worse.
But, of course, no one should have 100% confidence in one opinion when that opinion is the only thing guiding your bidding.
You should see the PCGS puttyied gold coin I bought 2 weeks ago. I bought it a bullion, so I didn't care. But if it were a 65 Saint instead of a 65 Louis Armstrong, someone would have been unhappy.
Learn to grade children or else
Beyond that, I should add that the putty was not prominent in the auction photo. While I suspected haziness from the photo, the mess I received was unexpected.
I scrapped it profitably, so no harm. But if I were buying for type, I would have wanted the CAC sticker. And that's what it's good for, added confidence in a coin that I could not view in hand.
I don't know why people want to make CAC into anything more or less than that.
This comment sums things up for me as well... but if people want to spend ridiculous premiums on coins with colored stickers on them. I have no problem what so ever.
Mark
I did not see the photo or the coin or even most of the discussion but what I can see from that screen shot is noise.
It's your screen shot???? I'm confused.