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For ctf error coins -----how does this error occur ?

1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,913 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

Saw this in another thread and did not want to hijack the thread with my question.
.
@ctf_error_coins
For my education, how does this error occur.
thanks
boston
.
.


Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

Bad transactions with : nobody to date

Comments

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks @MWallace , he posted the coin , that's why I asked him.
    boston

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hint: The dropped letter is incuse.

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,344 ✭✭✭✭✭

    pretty cool!

    My YouTube Channel

  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ctf_error_coins said:
    These are extremely rare.

    Presumably, the grease-formed letters don't stand up to being struck multiple times (and/or get ejected right away, anyway) so every error of this type is probably a one-off event.

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ctf_error_coins said:
    The "A" got filled probably with grease and debris becoming hard pack and then breaking lose

    .
    .
    The 'A' from a struck coin or from the die?
    thanks

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • lilolmelilolme Posts: 2,719 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From:

    https://conecaonline.org/glossary-of-error-variety-terms/
    .

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
    .
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed

    RLJ 1958 - 2023

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1630Boston said:

    @ctf_error_coins said:
    The "A" got filled probably with grease and debris becoming hard pack and then breaking lose

    .
    .
    The 'A' from a struck coin or from the die?
    thanks

    Die Fill.

    So, coins being struck by this die prior to the "A" falling out would be "Die Filled" error coins.

  • privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Awesome.

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

  • MarkKelleyMarkKelley Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dropped fillings show up on the anvil die more than on the hammer die. The chances are better for it to land on the stationary bottom die than on the incoming planchet. Of course, as the above 1958 cent shows, this isn't always the case.

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks everyone for the numismatic education.
    boston

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ctf_error_coins said:

    My very best example which I sold had all of IGWT fall out as in a dropped motto.

    Seriously?!?!
    I would love to see it.
    Do you have a photo?

    http://www.SmallDollars.com
  • divecchiadivecchia Posts: 6,680 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Learned something new. That is an amazing error on the quarter.

    Thanks for the education.

    Donato

    Hobbyist & Collector (not an investor).
    Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set

    Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 7,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ctf_error_coins- Why wouldn't they call it Dropped Letter's or Words? Not enough room on the label?

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OAKSTAR said:
    @ctf_error_coins- Why wouldn't they call it Dropped Letter's or Words? Not enough room on the label?

    Because whomever authenticated the error got it wrong.

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 7,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ctf_error_coins said:

    @OAKSTAR said:
    @ctf_error_coins- Why wouldn't they call it Dropped Letter's or Words? Not enough room on the label?

    >

    Because whomever authenticated the error got it wrong.

    Really? Interesting, thanks!

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 7,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2023 1:20PM

    Not to hijack your thread @1630Boston. Thought I would jump in here if you don't mind.

    @ctf_error_coins- What would you call this one?

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2023 1:48PM

    If I may jump in as well, the quarter and cent both look similar to what I have seen called "struck thru struck layer" or "struck thru struck fragment" by more than one TPG. Here is my question: if you have a struck metallic fragment and a hardened grease fragment from a filled die that are both similar in size, how would you tell those two types of fragments apart when they are struck thru on a coin? Would the metallic fragment leave a sharper impression than the grease? How would one quantify this? What if the fragment is struck thru face up instead of face down? What if the fragment is struck thru face up but is slightly thicker and leaves a softer-looking impression as a result? These are interesting types of errors that I would like to see more fully explained. If there are already articles written about this, I'd be interested to know of them.

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 7,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bump

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OAKSTAR said:
    Not to hijack your thread @1630Boston. Thought I would jump in here if you don't mind.

    @ctf_error_coins- What would you call this one?

    !

    That's weird. Looks very similar to the quarter. Looks like an error to me.

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 7,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was just wondering why they didn't attribute it dropped letters.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • MapsOnFireMapsOnFire Posts: 235 ✭✭✭

    I'm having some trouble with this thread. The OP's 1969 D cent has a story that seems plausible. But if true, wouldn't there be many more of them, and not just among modern coins? And the Wash quarter is certainly not the same kind of error (no dropped letters.)

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,809 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Aren't "dropped letters" a subset of "struck through struck layer"? 🤔

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2023 6:39PM

    @JBK said:
    Aren't "dropped letters" a subset of "struck through struck layer"? 🤔

    No, completely different.

    Dropped letters fall out of the die while stuck thru struck layer is a clad layer or lamination as in metal fragment of a coin that gets struck into the coin and leaves an impression.

  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    Aren't "dropped letters" a subset of "struck through struck layer"? 🤔

    With a "dropped letter", the object being struck thru is a chunk of hardened, letter-shaped grease that fell out of a filled die. With "struck thru struck layer/struck thru struck fragment", the object being struck thru is a piece of metal that was previously struck.

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MapsOnFire said:
    I'm having some trouble with this thread. The OP's 1969 D cent has a story that seems plausible. But if true, wouldn't there be many more of them, and not just among modern coins? And the Wash quarter is certainly not the same kind of error (no dropped letters.)

    Super rare but there are more of them as I have handled a handful of dropped letters or numbers.

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OAKSTAR said:
    I was just wondering why they didn't attribute it dropped letters.

    That one (yours) might be a fragment.

    Mine has evidence of grease from the motto where it fell out.

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 9,576 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ctf_error_coins said:

    @MWallace said:

    @ctf_error_coins said:

    My very best example which I sold had all of IGWT fall out as in a dropped motto.

    Seriously?!?!
    I would love to see it.
    Do you have a photo?

    Here you go ...

    Could be called the sneezing IGWT GWQ.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • EXOJUNKIEEXOJUNKIE Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/557/

    I think I still own this coin. 🤔

    I'm addicted to exonumia ... it is numismatic crack!

    ANA LM

    USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,491 ✭✭✭✭

    @ctf_error_coins said:
    The "A" got filled probably with grease and debris becoming hard pack and then breaking lose and falling onto an unstruck planchet and then struck by the dies leaving an impression.

    These are extremely rare.

    My very best example which I sold had all of IGWT fall out as in a dropped motto.

    Isn't the reverse die the anvil die?

    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 5,834 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Those are indeed very cool, but I wonder if these could be faked since they are incuse? If someone had a punch that was the correct size and font do you think they could make a fake one?

    Mr_Spud

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OAKSTAR said:
    Not to hijack your thread @1630Boston.

    My threads are for everyone - I'm glad you participated
    boston

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • JBKJBK Posts: 15,809 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Mr_Spud said:
    Those are indeed very cool, but I wonder if these could be faked since they are incuse? If someone had a punch that was the correct size and font do you think they could make a fake one?

    The tell would be the metal movement. A counterstamped letter would show displaced metal.

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