@Walkerguy21D said:
There are a handful of truly rare US coins, but most of them are not in popular collected series.
Most scarce dates are available in some kind of condition, but could be undesirable except as hole fillers. I think most “key” dates are actually condition rarities. To the collectors they seem rare because they are searching for a scarce coin, but in a particular grade in a particular holder at a certain price point.
If you think “there are only a handful of truly rare U.S. coins” then your definition of “truly rare” is the strictest I’ve heard of. How few known examples of a particular coin do there need to be for you to consider it “truly rare”? Fewer than 10? 5? 3?
Along the lines of the aforementioned 1894S dime….like R7ish.
And how would you define it?
I’m not sure how I’d define “truly rare” but my number would certainly be greater than 10. And even using your own example of 1894-S dimes would constitute more than a “handful”.
So your definition of truly rare might be as high as 20, 30, or more? If so, then that certainly differs from my opinion.
Yes, my definition might be 20 or more.
Curiously, how do you distinguish “truly rare” from “rare”?
And again, even using your own example of 1894-S dimes as coins that would qualify, the number is more than your initial “only a handful of truly rare coins”.
Rarity in practical terms is equal to demand over supply. It represents the intensity of competition. It's an "If a tree falls in the woods..." sort of thing. Any discussion of actual numbers of items is essentially irrelevant without knowing the demand for this item.
(My a priori thinking documented, now I'll read the rest of this thread)
I don't think that's a good definition. So if there's a million of them but 1.1 million people that want them, they are "rare"?
By your definition, houses are "rare" because there's at least one person who wants one that doesn't have one.
When I see the amount of migration taking place, and the homelessness in many cities, I'm thinking houses are rare. So let's get back to "no keys".
By that definition, $1 bills are "rare" because there's always someone who wants one (more).
There's a difference between scarcity of supply and rarity.
I never left "no keys" except in the eyes of the metaphor challenged. Any definition that defines rarity in terms of demand makes almist everything rare. Bread? Rare, because there's someone out there who wants a loaf. Cars? Rare. There's someone out there who wants one.
All coins are therefore rare because there's always someone who wants one more.
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
I disagree, so many factors to consider. Every single coin that I buy is undervalued, otherwise I would not buy it.
I'm sure there are other coin buyers who feel the same, and like you, they back up their opinions with their money. But you're still talking about personal opinions.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
I disagree, so many factors to consider. Every single coin that I buy is undervalued, otherwise I would not buy it.
I'm sure there are other coin buyers who feel the same, and like you, they back up their opinions with their money. But you're still talking about personal opinions.
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
I disagree, so many factors to consider. Every single coin that I buy is undervalued, otherwise I would not buy it.
I'm sure there are other coin buyers who feel the same, and like you, they back up their opinions with their money. But you're still talking about personal opinions.
I talk facts.
I agree with 2/3 of the above.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
What do you call coins that hit the auction block and blow past published prices?
It does depend on a personal perspective of what is a key coin.
IMO too much emphasis on pricing and mintage and notoriety, not enough on information and facts.
We live in the age of information, conventional wisdom of what is key or rare or scarce is evolving.
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
What do you call coins that hit the auction block and blow past published prices?
It does depend on a personal perspective of what is a key coin.
IMO too much emphasis on pricing and mintage and notoriety, not enough on information and facts.
We live in the age of information, conventional wisdom of what is key or rare or scarce is evolving.
It's not that widely hunted coins are "key" - it's that "key" coins tend to be widely hunted.
Coins "that hit the auction block and blow past published prices" aren't necessarily "key" or rare. They're coins that, for reason or another, one or more buyers were willing to pay those prices.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
What do you call coins that hit the auction block and blow past published prices?
It does depend on a personal perspective of what is a key coin.
IMO too much emphasis on pricing and mintage and notoriety, not enough on information and facts.
We live in the age of information, conventional wisdom of what is key or rare or scarce is evolving.
It's not that widely hunted coins are "key" - it's that "key" coins tend to be widely hunted.
Coins "that hit the auction block and blow past published prices" aren't necessarily "key" or rare. They're coins that, for reason or another, one or more buyers were willing to pay those prices.
I was responding to the quote that there are no undervalued coins.
Actually I've wondered the same thing. I see 1995W SE's going for a small fortune while some proof (even DCAM) barber quarters that are truly spectacular of which only a few survive are less than half the price or way less than that. It kinda boggles my mind that a Silver Eagle with 1,000's available is so collectible when true rarities, many over 120 years old, remain under the radar and not collected at all. Cheers!
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
>
Your " clip " may be more rare and undervalued. But. I and most others here would take a 55 DD over your more rare clip. I don't, and never would consider it a " key coin " Why ? No demand, hence it's low value. Rarity,...... wouldn't matter to me if it was unique. Still no interest in it.
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
What do you call coins that hit the auction block and blow past published prices?
It does depend on a personal perspective of what is a key coin.
IMO too much emphasis on pricing and mintage and notoriety, not enough on information and facts.
We live in the age of information, conventional wisdom of what is key or rare or scarce is evolving.
It's not that widely hunted coins are "key" - it's that "key" coins tend to be widely hunted.
Coins "that hit the auction block and blow past published prices" aren't necessarily "key" or rare. They're coins that, for reason or another, one or more buyers were willing to pay those prices.
I was responding to the quote that there are no undervalued coins.
Thank you. In that case, I think it would be fair to say that some coins which blow past published prices might be undervalued, relative to the price guides. However, the prices realized for those coins merely reflect the value to one or more bidders at that point in time. That doesn't necessarily mean that the price guides undervalued them. And even if they did, the market spoke.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
I disagree, so many factors to consider. Every single coin that I buy is undervalued, otherwise I would not buy it.
I would like to think the same thing about my scarce to rare chopmarked trade dollars however the market demand just isn't there. Despite how unique and interesting your coins are, I would never be interested in paying a premium for an error coin and many others are the same. Many would say the exact same thing about chopmarks or lots of other types of coins as well. It's not that complicated, you have to have the demand to push the value up otherwise scarcity or uniqueness by itself doesn't mean anything (when talking monetary value).
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
I disagree, so many factors to consider. Every single coin that I buy is undervalued, otherwise I would not buy it.
I would like to think the same thing about my scarce to rare chopmarked trade dollars however the market demand just isn't there. Despite how unique and interesting your coins are, I would never be interested in paying a premium for an error coin and many others are the same. Many would say the exact same thing about chopmarks or lots of other types of coins as well. It's not that complicated, you have to have the demand to push the value up otherwise scarcity or uniqueness by itself doesn't mean anything (when talking monetary value).
That is not what I am saying. Do you buy every single chopmarked dollar you see or do you just buy the nicest ones that you perceive are undervalued to the market?
Every coin I buy is undervalued in the market. I do not not buy every error coin that I see. It's called being a dealer.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
Bingo! One can believe that prices are due for a "correction" (up or down), but it's silly to call a commodity which actually sells at a particular price either "overvalued" or "undervalued." That's the value the present market has set for that commodity.
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
I disagree, so many factors to consider. Every single coin that I buy is undervalued, otherwise I would not buy it.
I would like to think the same thing about my scarce to rare chopmarked trade dollars however the market demand just isn't there. Despite how unique and interesting your coins are, I would never be interested in paying a premium for an error coin and many others are the same. Many would say the exact same thing about chopmarks or lots of other types of coins as well. It's not that complicated, you have to have the demand to push the value up otherwise scarcity or uniqueness by itself doesn't mean anything (when talking monetary value).
That is not what I am saying. Do you buy every single chopmarked dollar you see or do you just buy the nicest ones that you perceive are undervalued to the market?
Every coin I buy is undervalued in the market. I do not not buy every error coin that I see. It's called being a dealer.
Perhaps you're the lone exception, but I don't know any dealers who make a profit on every coin they sell. So, while they buy coins that they think are undervalued and/or that they can sell for a profit - those aren't necessarily the same thing - they're not always right. Your posts indicate that you KNOW that which everyone else merely thinks. I'm happy for you.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
I disagree, so many factors to consider. Every single coin that I buy is undervalued, otherwise I would not buy it.
I would like to think the same thing about my scarce to rare chopmarked trade dollars however the market demand just isn't there. Despite how unique and interesting your coins are, I would never be interested in paying a premium for an error coin and many others are the same. Many would say the exact same thing about chopmarks or lots of other types of coins as well. It's not that complicated, you have to have the demand to push the value up otherwise scarcity or uniqueness by itself doesn't mean anything (when talking monetary value).
That is not what I am saying. Do you buy every single chopmarked dollar you see or do you just buy the nicest ones that you perceive are undervalued to the market?
Every coin I buy is undervalued in the market. I do not not buy every error coin that I see. It's called being a dealer.
Perhaps you're the lone exception, but I don't know any dealers who make a profit on every coin they sell. So, while they buy coins that they think are undervalued and/or that they can sell for a profit - those aren't necessarily the same thing - they're not always right. Your posts indicate that you KNOW that which everyone else merely thinks. I'm happy for you.
Chris is willing to hold the coins for as long as it takes for the market to make him "right". It'll be interesting to see what happens if error coins go into a prolonged downturn.
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
I disagree, so many factors to consider. Every single coin that I buy is undervalued, otherwise I would not buy it.
I would like to think the same thing about my scarce to rare chopmarked trade dollars however the market demand just isn't there. Despite how unique and interesting your coins are, I would never be interested in paying a premium for an error coin and many others are the same. Many would say the exact same thing about chopmarks or lots of other types of coins as well. It's not that complicated, you have to have the demand to push the value up otherwise scarcity or uniqueness by itself doesn't mean anything (when talking monetary value).
That is not what I am saying. Do you buy every single chopmarked dollar you see or do you just buy the nicest ones that you perceive are undervalued to the market?
Every coin I buy is undervalued in the market. I do not not buy every error coin that I see. It's called being a dealer.
Perhaps you're the lone exception, but I don't know any dealers who make a profit on every coin they sell. So, while they buy coins that they think are undervalued and/or that they can sell for a profit - those aren't necessarily the same thing - they're not always right. Your posts indicate that you KNOW that which everyone else merely thinks. I'm happy for you.
Chris is willing to hold the coins for as long as it takes for the market to make him "right". It'll be interesting to see what happens if error coins go into a prolonged downturn.
It's not going to happen.
If it does and it won't I am still way way ahead.
I would love a major downturn in the error coin market. I'll just buy up all the eye appeal like last time.
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
I disagree, so many factors to consider. Every single coin that I buy is undervalued, otherwise I would not buy it.
I would like to think the same thing about my scarce to rare chopmarked trade dollars however the market demand just isn't there. Despite how unique and interesting your coins are, I would never be interested in paying a premium for an error coin and many others are the same. Many would say the exact same thing about chopmarks or lots of other types of coins as well. It's not that complicated, you have to have the demand to push the value up otherwise scarcity or uniqueness by itself doesn't mean anything (when talking monetary value).
That is not what I am saying. Do you buy every single chopmarked dollar you see or do you just buy the nicest ones that you perceive are undervalued to the market?
Every coin I buy is undervalued in the market. I do not not buy every error coin that I see. It's called being a dealer.
Perhaps you're the lone exception, but I don't know any dealers who make a profit on every coin they sell. So, while they buy coins that they think are undervalued and/or that they can sell for a profit - those aren't necessarily the same thing - they're not always right. Your posts indicate that you KNOW that which everyone else merely thinks. I'm happy for you.
Chris is willing to hold the coins for as long as it takes for the market to make him "right". It'll be interesting to see what happens if error coins go into a prolonged downturn.
Its not amount making me right. It is about buying undervalued based on all my points above. And pricing those coins properly with excellentphotography.
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
What do you call coins that hit the auction block and blow past published prices?
It does depend on a personal perspective of what is a key coin.
IMO too much emphasis on pricing and mintage and notoriety, not enough on information and facts.
We live in the age of information, conventional wisdom of what is key or rare or scarce is evolving.
It's not that widely hunted coins are "key" - it's that "key" coins tend to be widely hunted.
Coins "that hit the auction block and blow past published prices" aren't necessarily "key" or rare. They're coins that, for reason or another, one or more buyers were willing to pay those prices.
I was responding to the quote that there are no undervalued coins.
And the answer us that no single coin ever represents published averages. In a market as mature and deep as the US everything is properly valued on average. If I go to an estate sale and I'm the only coin guy there and buy an 85CC dollar for $50, that doesn't mean the coin was overvalued previously. And if two people jump on an 85CC toner and bid it up to $100,000 that doesn't mean it was undervalued previously.
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
I disagree, so many factors to consider. Every single coin that I buy is undervalued, otherwise I would not buy it.
I would like to think the same thing about my scarce to rare chopmarked trade dollars however the market demand just isn't there. Despite how unique and interesting your coins are, I would never be interested in paying a premium for an error coin and many others are the same. Many would say the exact same thing about chopmarks or lots of other types of coins as well. It's not that complicated, you have to have the demand to push the value up otherwise scarcity or uniqueness by itself doesn't mean anything (when talking monetary value).
That is not what I am saying. Do you buy every single chopmarked dollar you see or do you just buy the nicest ones that you perceive are undervalued to the market?
Every coin I buy is undervalued in the market. I do not not buy every error coin that I see. It's called being a dealer.
Perhaps you're the lone exception, but I don't know any dealers who make a profit on every coin they sell. So, while they buy coins that they think are undervalued and/or that they can sell for a profit - those aren't necessarily the same thing - they're not always right. Your posts indicate that you KNOW that which everyone else merely thinks. I'm happy for you.
Chris is willing to hold the coins for as long as it takes for the market to make him "right". It'll be interesting to see what happens if error coins go into a prolonged downturn.
It's not going to happen.
If it does and it won't I am still way way ahead.
I would love a major downturn in the error coin market. I'll just buy up all the eye appeal like last time.
Bring it on.
It was neither a challenge or a criticism. But the broader coin market has had decade long lulls. As @MFeld was suggesting, dealers can't afford to hold on to their entire inventory waiting for the market to fix their mistakes. So you take a loss here or there and roll the money into the next deal that hopefully makes up for it. That doesn't make them worse dealers than you, maybe just more humble.
@ctf_error_coins said:
Mark, did you see my error coin photo thread?
Not all dealers are the same.
Many do it very very differently.
I did not grow up in the industry, I never worked in the industry, I figured it all out on my own.
I base my business on rarity, eye appeal and fantastic photography on my end.
However wonderful your coins and photography might be, we have very different ideas regarding your ability to be able to identify and buy only "undervalued" coins.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
**
**
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
I disagree, so many factors to consider. Every single coin that I buy is undervalued, otherwise I would not buy it.
I would like to think the same thing about my scarce to rare chopmarked trade dollars however the market demand just isn't there. Despite how unique and interesting your coins are, I would never be interested in paying a premium for an error coin and many others are the same. Many would say the exact same thing about chopmarks or lots of other types of coins as well. It's not that complicated, you have to have the demand to push the value up otherwise scarcity or uniqueness by itself doesn't mean anything (when talking monetary value).
That is not what I am saying. Do you buy every single chopmarked dollar you see or do you just buy the nicest ones that you perceive are undervalued to the market?
Every coin I buy is undervalued in the market. I do not not buy every error coin that I see. It's called being a dealer.
Perhaps you're the lone exception, but I don't know any dealers who make a profit on every coin they sell. So, while they buy coins that they think are undervalued and/or that they can sell for a profit - those aren't necessarily the same thing - they're not always right. Your posts indicate that you KNOW that which everyone else merely thinks. I'm happy for you.
Chris is willing to hold the coins for as long as it takes for the market to make him "right".
>
Today, on eBay I have (12) 99 cent start price auctions ending. I am able to flip coins and not hold to make me "right" whatever that means.
All of the coins in that auction started below my cost and are now way above my cost.
These coins came from a lot of 5000 error coins that when I bought them, I knew as a fact that they were undervalued.
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
**
**
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
I disagree, so many factors to consider. Every single coin that I buy is undervalued, otherwise I would not buy it.
I would like to think the same thing about my scarce to rare chopmarked trade dollars however the market demand just isn't there. Despite how unique and interesting your coins are, I would never be interested in paying a premium for an error coin and many others are the same. Many would say the exact same thing about chopmarks or lots of other types of coins as well. It's not that complicated, you have to have the demand to push the value up otherwise scarcity or uniqueness by itself doesn't mean anything (when talking monetary value).
That is not what I am saying. Do you buy every single chopmarked dollar you see or do you just buy the nicest ones that you perceive are undervalued to the market?
Every coin I buy is undervalued in the market. I do not not buy every error coin that I see. It's called being a dealer.
Perhaps you're the lone exception, but I don't know any dealers who make a profit on every coin they sell. So, while they buy coins that they think are undervalued and/or that they can sell for a profit - those aren't necessarily the same thing - they're not always right. Your posts indicate that you KNOW that which everyone else merely thinks. I'm happy for you.
Chris is willing to hold the coins for as long as it takes for the market to make him "right".
>
Today, on eBay I have (12) 99 cent start price auctions ending. I am able to flip coins and not hold to make me "right" whatever that means.
All of the coins in that auction started below my cost and are now way above my cost.
These coins came from a lot of 5000 error coins that when I bought them, I knew as a fact that they were undervalued.
This is not rocket science. It is basic math.
Buying a wholesale lot is not about being "undervalued".
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
**
**
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
I disagree, so many factors to consider. Every single coin that I buy is undervalued, otherwise I would not buy it.
I would like to think the same thing about my scarce to rare chopmarked trade dollars however the market demand just isn't there. Despite how unique and interesting your coins are, I would never be interested in paying a premium for an error coin and many others are the same. Many would say the exact same thing about chopmarks or lots of other types of coins as well. It's not that complicated, you have to have the demand to push the value up otherwise scarcity or uniqueness by itself doesn't mean anything (when talking monetary value).
That is not what I am saying. Do you buy every single chopmarked dollar you see or do you just buy the nicest ones that you perceive are undervalued to the market?
Every coin I buy is undervalued in the market. I do not not buy every error coin that I see. It's called being a dealer.
Perhaps you're the lone exception, but I don't know any dealers who make a profit on every coin they sell. So, while they buy coins that they think are undervalued and/or that they can sell for a profit - those aren't necessarily the same thing - they're not always right. Your posts indicate that you KNOW that which everyone else merely thinks. I'm happy for you.
Chris is willing to hold the coins for as long as it takes for the market to make him "right".
>
Today, on eBay I have (12) 99 cent start price auctions ending. I am able to flip coins and not hold to make me "right" whatever that means.
All of the coins in that auction started below my cost and are now way above my cost.
These coins came from a lot of 5000 error coins that when I bought them, I knew as a fact that they were undervalued.
This is not rocket science. It is basic math.
Buying a wholesale lot is not about being "undervalued".
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
**
**
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
I disagree, so many factors to consider. Every single coin that I buy is undervalued, otherwise I would not buy it.
I would like to think the same thing about my scarce to rare chopmarked trade dollars however the market demand just isn't there. Despite how unique and interesting your coins are, I would never be interested in paying a premium for an error coin and many others are the same. Many would say the exact same thing about chopmarks or lots of other types of coins as well. It's not that complicated, you have to have the demand to push the value up otherwise scarcity or uniqueness by itself doesn't mean anything (when talking monetary value).
That is not what I am saying. Do you buy every single chopmarked dollar you see or do you just buy the nicest ones that you perceive are undervalued to the market?
Every coin I buy is undervalued in the market. I do not not buy every error coin that I see. It's called being a dealer.
Perhaps you're the lone exception, but I don't know any dealers who make a profit on every coin they sell. So, while they buy coins that they think are undervalued and/or that they can sell for a profit - those aren't necessarily the same thing - they're not always right. Your posts indicate that you KNOW that which everyone else merely thinks. I'm happy for you.
Chris is willing to hold the coins for as long as it takes for the market to make him "right".
>
Today, on eBay I have (12) 99 cent start price auctions ending. I am able to flip coins and not hold to make me "right" whatever that means.
All of the coins in that auction started below my cost and are now way above my cost.
These coins came from a lot of 5000 error coins that when I bought them, I knew as a fact that they were undervalued.
This is not rocket science. It is basic math.
Buying a wholesale lot is not about being "undervalued".
Is it possible to buy a wholesale lot that is (way) undervalued as a wholesale lot? Geez.
I like 55 doubled die cents. Your curved clip doesn't interest me.
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As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
I disagree, so many factors to consider. Every single coin that I buy is undervalued, otherwise I would not buy it.
I would like to think the same thing about my scarce to rare chopmarked trade dollars however the market demand just isn't there. Despite how unique and interesting your coins are, I would never be interested in paying a premium for an error coin and many others are the same. Many would say the exact same thing about chopmarks or lots of other types of coins as well. It's not that complicated, you have to have the demand to push the value up otherwise scarcity or uniqueness by itself doesn't mean anything (when talking monetary value).
That is not what I am saying. Do you buy every single chopmarked dollar you see or do you just buy the nicest ones that you perceive are undervalued to the market?
Every coin I buy is undervalued in the market. I do not not buy every error coin that I see. It's called being a dealer.
Perhaps you're the lone exception, but I don't know any dealers who make a profit on every coin they sell. So, while they buy coins that they think are undervalued and/or that they can sell for a profit - those aren't necessarily the same thing - they're not always right. Your posts indicate that you KNOW that which everyone else merely thinks. I'm happy for you.
Chris is willing to hold the coins for as long as it takes for the market to make him "right".
>
Today, on eBay I have (12) 99 cent start price auctions ending. I am able to flip coins and not hold to make me "right" whatever that means.
All of the coins in that auction started below my cost and are now way above my cost.
These coins came from a lot of 5000 error coins that when I bought them, I knew as a fact that they were undervalued.
This is not rocket science. It is basic math.
Buying a wholesale lot is not about being "undervalued".
Is it possible to buy a wholesale lot that is (way) undervalued as a wholesale lot? Geez.
Sure. It could be a bargain. But you were talking about your retail sales of the lots, so I assumed you were bragging on your profits.
I guess I buy nothing but undervalued coins since I sell them for more than I buy them. Yay me!
Key date is an antiquated term as much as the Red Book is an antiquated price guide. Low mintages were marketable before collectors had ready access to better information.
CC Morgans of several dates are a good example. Lower mintages, but far higher survival rates than some comparable dates since a huge part of the mintages were stored in vaults and never actually distributed into commerce.
Then what was the point of bringing it up here? No need to answer, as I have a pretty good idea as to why.
He doesn't like the fact that "turnover" is important to businesses.
No, that is not it at all.
It is that some think in academic terms while others think in realistic terms of how to run a successful full time business.
Sorry, but you claiming it as fact that every coin you purchase is undervalued isn't at all realistic. On the contrary, and to borrow from the video you posted, its' "Fantasyland".
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Time to go trim some bonsai trees, trim some weed, pack a bowl, go swimming, walk around my brand new house, list some more coins and enjoy this fantastic day in Sunny Southern California
There's lots of key date coins but very few rare coins. The Barber coins, for example, have numerous key dates in the nickel, dime, quarter, and half dollar series' but there are only two Barber designed coins that are truly rare. The 1913 Liberty nickel and the 1894-S dime. Typically, the "keyness" of a coin is mostly reflected in its market price, mintage and availability notwithstanding.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@ctf_error_coins said:
Mark, I have made mistakes in the past and sold those mistakes. Lessons learned and remembered.
I am at a point now with 800 plus certified error coins in inventory that I do not "need" to add coins. Zero debt on the whole inventory.
So yes, every coin I buy, and I buy a fair amount of coins has to be undervalued.
I do handpick every coin.
I see so many coin that I would love to own (have in inventory) that I do bid on but once fairly valued, I am out.
It is my business model and it works perfectly.
IMO, you're conflating "undervalued" and "very thin market, hoping to find someone who really wants this coin." The error market, being very thin on buyers, is subject to significant swings in prices merely because someone with a bulging wallet wants a specific coin. Every collector of Lincoln cents wants a 1955 DDO; not one in a hundred would pay big bucks for many true error coins. But it only takes finding that one (or two, if it's an auction), and the sky's the limit. But a thin market does not mean a thing is undervalued. Or overvalued.
Comments
By that definition, $1 bills are "rare" because there's always someone who wants one (more).
There's a difference between scarcity of supply and rarity.
I never left "no keys" except in the eyes of the metaphor challenged. Any definition that defines rarity in terms of demand makes almist everything rare. Bread? Rare, because there's someone out there who wants a loaf. Cars? Rare. There's someone out there who wants one.
All coins are therefore rare because there's always someone who wants one more.
As a major error coin dealer/collector, I have never owned a 1955 Double Die because it is way too common.
I'll take that clip every day because it is way undervalued and way way more rare.
And comparing rare error coins to coins with drilled holes on coins made into buttons is just about the lamest comparison anyone could come up with.
I know. But, of course, you're also talking your book.
I don't believe any US coin is overvalued or undervalued. The market is too mature for that.
I disagree, so many factors to consider. Every single coin that I buy is undervalued, otherwise I would not buy it.
I'm sure there are other coin buyers who feel the same, and like you, they back up their opinions with their money. But you're still talking about personal opinions.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I talk facts.
I agree with 2/3 of the above.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes widely hunted coins are key, and more expensive
What do you call coins that hit the auction block and blow past published prices?
It does depend on a personal perspective of what is a key coin.
IMO too much emphasis on pricing and mintage and notoriety, not enough on information and facts.
We live in the age of information, conventional wisdom of what is key or rare or scarce is evolving.
It's not that widely hunted coins are "key" - it's that "key" coins tend to be widely hunted.
Coins "that hit the auction block and blow past published prices" aren't necessarily "key" or rare. They're coins that, for reason or another, one or more buyers were willing to pay those prices.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I was responding to the quote that there are no undervalued coins.
See how rare it is? Must be a key date..............or maybe a semi-key...........Hmmmmmm...........
Actually I've wondered the same thing. I see 1995W SE's going for a small fortune while some proof (even DCAM) barber quarters that are truly spectacular of which only a few survive are less than half the price or way less than that. It kinda boggles my mind that a Silver Eagle with 1,000's available is so collectible when true rarities, many over 120 years old, remain under the radar and not collected at all. Cheers!
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Your " clip " may be more rare and undervalued. But. I and most others here would take a 55 DD over your more rare clip. I don't, and never would consider it a " key coin " Why ? No demand, hence it's low value. Rarity,...... wouldn't matter to me if it was unique. Still no interest in it.
Thank you. In that case, I think it would be fair to say that some coins which blow past published prices might be undervalued, relative to the price guides. However, the prices realized for those coins merely reflect the value to one or more bidders at that point in time. That doesn't necessarily mean that the price guides undervalued them. And even if they did, the market spoke.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I would like to think the same thing about my scarce to rare chopmarked trade dollars however the market demand just isn't there. Despite how unique and interesting your coins are, I would never be interested in paying a premium for an error coin and many others are the same. Many would say the exact same thing about chopmarks or lots of other types of coins as well. It's not that complicated, you have to have the demand to push the value up otherwise scarcity or uniqueness by itself doesn't mean anything (when talking monetary value).
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US Gold Showcase --- World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
That is not what I am saying. Do you buy every single chopmarked dollar you see or do you just buy the nicest ones that you perceive are undervalued to the market?
Every coin I buy is undervalued in the market. I do not not buy every error coin that I see. It's called being a dealer.
Bingo! One can believe that prices are due for a "correction" (up or down), but it's silly to call a commodity which actually sells at a particular price either "overvalued" or "undervalued." That's the value the present market has set for that commodity.
Why are the coins I buy undervalued ?
I buy coins from horrible photos.
I buy coins 24/7 when some in the market may not be looking.
I buy from many places that may not be known to all who would like to own that item.
I occasionally get a dealer discount.
I buy coins with a resale certificate so no sales tax ever.
Sometimes I negotiate, sometimes I buy instanlty. You must know when to do what.
I am known so people offer me coins that are not offered to others.
I buy superior eye appeal over a similar item price similarly.
I buy unique coins.
I use common sense.
It works.
Perhaps you're the lone exception, but I don't know any dealers who make a profit on every coin they sell. So, while they buy coins that they think are undervalued and/or that they can sell for a profit - those aren't necessarily the same thing - they're not always right. Your posts indicate that you KNOW that which everyone else merely thinks. I'm happy for you.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Mark, I have made mistakes in the past and sold those mistakes. Lessons learned and remembered.
I am at a point now with 800 plus certified error coins in inventory that I do not "need" to add coins. Zero debt on the whole inventory.
So yes, every coin I buy, and I buy a fair amount of coins has to be undervalued.
I do handpick every coin.
I see so many coin that I would love to own (have in inventory) that I do bid on but once fairly valued, I am out.
It is my business model and it works perfectly.
Chris is willing to hold the coins for as long as it takes for the market to make him "right". It'll be interesting to see what happens if error coins go into a prolonged downturn.
It's not going to happen.
If it does and it won't I am still way way ahead.
I would love a major downturn in the error coin market. I'll just buy up all the eye appeal like last time.
Bring it on.
Its not amount making me right. It is about buying undervalued based on all my points above. And pricing those coins properly with excellent photography.
I make markets!
And the answer us that no single coin ever represents published averages. In a market as mature and deep as the US everything is properly valued on average. If I go to an estate sale and I'm the only coin guy there and buy an 85CC dollar for $50, that doesn't mean the coin was overvalued previously. And if two people jump on an 85CC toner and bid it up to $100,000 that doesn't mean it was undervalued previously.
It was neither a challenge or a criticism. But the broader coin market has had decade long lulls. As @MFeld was suggesting, dealers can't afford to hold on to their entire inventory waiting for the market to fix their mistakes. So you take a loss here or there and roll the money into the next deal that hopefully makes up for it. That doesn't make them worse dealers than you, maybe just more humble.
I no longer make (coin buying) mistakes because I have learned from previous mistakes.
It is called experience.
I am certainly not humble.
Say it isn't so.
I'm not going to argue that point and maybe even@jmlanzaf won't either.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Mark, did you see my error coin photo thread?
Not all dealers are the same.
Many do it very very differently.
I did not grow up in the industry, I never worked in the industry, I figured it all out on my own.
I base my business on rarity, eye appeal and fantastic photography on my end.
However wonderful your coins and photography might be, we have very different ideas regarding your ability to be able to identify and buy only "undervalued" coins.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I know my numbers and you do not so you are at a disadvantage when talking about my business.
>
Today, on eBay I have (12) 99 cent start price auctions ending. I am able to flip coins and not hold to make me "right" whatever that means.
All of the coins in that auction started below my cost and are now way above my cost.
These coins came from a lot of 5000 error coins that when I bought them, I knew as a fact that they were undervalued.
This is not rocket science. It is basic math.
Buying a wholesale lot is not about being "undervalued".
WTF
There is a lot of business advice on this forum and some of it is horrible.
Is it possible to buy a wholesale lot that is (way) undervalued as a wholesale lot? Geez.
What "business advice" are you referring to?
Pretty much everything I've seen posted to this thread pertains to disagreements over definitions.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Not this thread specifically, but other threads 100% for sure. Can't name names (that are in this thread) as that is not allowed on this forum.
THIS ...
Chris marches to the beat of his own drum. But if he's not criticizing someone else, he doesn't get to feel superior.
Neither you nor I offered any business advice.
Sure. It could be a bargain. But you were talking about your retail sales of the lots, so I assumed you were bragging on your profits.
I guess I buy nothing but undervalued coins since I sell them for more than I buy them. Yay me!
Then what was the point of bringing it up here? No need to answer, as I have a pretty good idea as to why.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Because I find the clip extremely funny at to the point.
He doesn't like the fact that "turnover" is important to businesses. He's never recovered from that discussion.
No, that is not it at all.
It is that some think in academic terms while others think in realistic terms of how to run a successful full time business.
Key date is an antiquated term as much as the Red Book is an antiquated price guide. Low mintages were marketable before collectors had ready access to better information.
CC Morgans of several dates are a good example. Lower mintages, but far higher survival rates than some comparable dates since a huge part of the mintages were stored in vaults and never actually distributed into commerce.
Turnover isn't academic.
Sorry, but you claiming it as fact that every coin you purchase is undervalued isn't at all realistic. On the contrary, and to borrow from the video you posted, its' "Fantasyland".
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I only live by truth and facts.
Time to go trim some bonsai trees, trim some weed, pack a bowl, go swimming, walk around my brand new house, list some more coins and enjoy this fantastic day in Sunny Southern California
There's lots of key date coins but very few rare coins. The Barber coins, for example, have numerous key dates in the nickel, dime, quarter, and half dollar series' but there are only two Barber designed coins that are truly rare. The 1913 Liberty nickel and the 1894-S dime. Typically, the "keyness" of a coin is mostly reflected in its market price, mintage and availability notwithstanding.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
IMO, you're conflating "undervalued" and "very thin market, hoping to find someone who really wants this coin." The error market, being very thin on buyers, is subject to significant swings in prices merely because someone with a bulging wallet wants a specific coin. Every collector of Lincoln cents wants a 1955 DDO; not one in a hundred would pay big bucks for many true error coins. But it only takes finding that one (or two, if it's an auction), and the sky's the limit. But a thin market does not mean a thing is undervalued. Or overvalued.
What happens when a very thin market grows?
Is it possible to buy coins in very thin market that are undervalued perhaps due to horrible photography or marketing or timing or connections?