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CACG*

DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭✭✭

I was looking at a NGC coin that has a "*." Not quite sure what it meant I went to the NGC website and learned.

"NGC assigns its trademarked Star Designation to coins with exceptional eye appeal for their assigned grade.

It's important to remember that coins with the Star Designation can fall anywhere within the grades to which they are assigned. For example, a coin graded NGC MS 64 could be at the lower end, mid-range or higher end of NGC MS 64."

Much of the criticism of CAC is that their coins sometimes are unattractive. Would a * help at CACG?

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Comments

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,972 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 18, 2023 9:22PM

    No.

    What if your star coin isn't attractive to me?

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    No.

    What if your star coin isn't attractive to me?

    NGC does state

    "Eye appeal is the most subjective attribute of a coin, but there are many standards shared by numismatists."

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,972 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DisneyFan said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    No.

    What if your star coin isn't attractive to me?

    NGC does state

    "Eye appeal is the most subjective attribute of a coin, but there are many standards shared by numismatists."

    Exactly. Our dear lost friend RickO probably hated 75% of star coins because of the "tarnish".

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,577 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf ricko didn't hate toned coins he preferred them. He actually hit the like button many times on some of my toners. A star isn't only for toners, there are quite a few blast white coins with the star designation. Eye appeal is very subjective, but a star coin most likely stands out from the crowd.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,972 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 19, 2023 3:21AM

    @gumby1234 said:
    @jmlanzaf ricko didn't hate toned coins he preferred them. He actually hit the like button many times on some of my toners. A star isn't only for toners, there are quite a few blast white coins with the star designation. Eye appeal is very subjective, but a star coin most likely stands out from the crowd.

    He definitely did NOT prefer "tarnished" coins. He hated all tarnish. He never called it toning. He always called it tarnish. We all thought of him as Mr. Blast White.

    However he was always a gentleman and generous with the likes.

    I'm well aware of the star not being only for toned coins. But you will find the majority of them, hence my "75%" not being blast white.

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,577 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DisneyFan You answer your own question in your post. NGC assigns its trademarked star designation.....

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,972 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:
    @jmlanzaf ricko didn't hate toned coins he preferred them. He actually hit the like button many times on some of my toners. A star isn't only for toners, there are quite a few blast white coins with the star designation. Eye appeal is very subjective, but a star coin most likely stands out from the crowd.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/999309/no-tarnish-allowed-thread-for-ricko

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,577 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf that came out wrong. Still on my first coffee. He preferred them white is what was meant to be typed.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,242 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think grading is complicated enough without stars, and they don’t really tell us anything that’s not obvious enough to anyone looking at the coin.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,095 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:
    I think grading is complicated enough without stars, and they don’t really tell us anything that’s not obvious enough to anyone looking at the coin.

    Do you feel the same about PCGS using the + with a grade?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 19, 2023 4:07AM

    I personally feel that some coins that don't hit the PL or DMPL spot but have a nice cameo or have really nice toning are worthy of a star. If CACG added the star designation I don't think it would do any harm. It may bring a little premium to a coin from time to time. That's not a bad thing.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
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  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,577 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @150K they aren't allowed to add the star because its trademarked.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • LuxorLuxor Posts: 466 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.

  • LuxorLuxor Posts: 466 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,972 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:
    @jmlanzaf that came out wrong. Still on my first coffee. He preferred them white is what was meant to be typed.

    Gotcha

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:
    @150K they aren't allowed to add the star because its trademarked.

    I knew somebody was going to point that out. :smile:

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The point I was trying to make was at NGC

    " It's important to remember that coins with the Star Designation can fall anywhere within the grades to which they are assigned. For example, a coin graded NGC MS 64 could be at the lower end, mid-range or higher end of NGC MS 64."

  • 1madman1madman Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:
    @DisneyFan You answer your own question in your post. NGC assigns its trademarked star designation.....

    Does this mean that no other grading company can use star or * on the labels? I actually think the stars help because it causes me to take a second look at a coin I might otherwise pass over to examine it closer for the beauty or unique quality. I wish pcgs would incorporate a star type designation for coins.

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    I'm well aware of the star not being only for toned coins. But you will find the majority of them, hence my "75%" not being blast white.

    One of the 75%? :smile:

  • Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:
    @150K they aren't allowed to add the star because its trademarked.

    Learn something new everyday. Thank you

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
    Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
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  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,577 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1madman yes it means only NGC can use the star designation.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • EliteCollectionEliteCollection Posts: 168 ✭✭✭✭

    I can't imagine the star trademark would uphold in a court. How can a company prevent another from giving a star to a coin? It's like trademarking the +.

  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Search the database to see what is actually trademarked... (they don't seem to generate deep links)

    Notice what is trademarked is the words "The NGC Star Designation" not the star itself...

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • EliteCollectionEliteCollection Posts: 168 ✭✭✭✭

    That makes more sense. So CACG better not call their * the NGC Star Designation! 😂

  • skier07skier07 Posts: 3,963 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Are there any * coins with a +?

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,242 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @MrEureka said:
    I think grading is complicated enough without stars, and they don’t really tell us anything that’s not obvious enough to anyone looking at the coin.

    Do you feel the same about PCGS using the + with a grade?

    No. Technically PQ coins aren't as obvious to non-experts as "exceptionally pretty" coins are. So if PCGS can reliably and consistently identify technically PQ coins, using plus signs can only help.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,242 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @skier07 said:
    Are there any * coins with a +?

    Yes.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • bigjpstbigjpst Posts: 3,098 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would venture to guess, not knowing if the timelines correspond that the NGC star has something to do with registry collecting. Since eye appeal is subjective and basically the star is saying NGC believes the coin is prettier than other coins in the same grade. Unless NGC is attempting to train us to see beauty in coins from their point of view. Yes, most coins I’ve seen with a star designation are attractive. Some I feel are middle of the road. But if I’m in the NGC registry and * get extra points the thought May have been it would drive submissions of colorful coins to them.

  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 6,015 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe they can use a diamond to rival the NGC star?

  • breakdownbreakdown Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @MrEureka said:
    I think grading is complicated enough without stars, and they don’t really tell us anything that’s not obvious enough to anyone looking at the coin.

    Do you feel the same about PCGS using the + with a grade?

    No. Technically PQ coins aren't as obvious to non-experts as "exceptionally pretty" coins are. So if PCGS can reliably and consistently identify technically PQ coins, using plus signs can only help.

    My answer to this question is yes. As I have stated elsewhere, plus grading benefits dealers, TPGs and registry competition but not collectors. I understand why CACG had to go along with plus grading, but I don’t have to like it.

    We have too many grades and I believe JA has stated that he is not a fan of plus grading either. So I am in decent company on this point.

    "Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.

  • Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If PCGS can't use a star then could always do this for example
    MS65+PQ r MS65PQ.
    I'm being serious. If it's top of the grade I myself don't believe in the + but that's just me.
    My argument for that is if a coin is a 65+ that means its a low end 66. How can it be a 65+?
    The star makes perfect sense and I think it's a good thing.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,188 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 19, 2023 8:01AM

    Brialliant vs toned is a preference. Until they have a full rollout…..who knows.

    I did see where a CACG MS64 1885-O dollar went for $112.50 in an ebay auction. Frankly I thought it would be bid up considerably higher aka the bid stampede on the sample slab state 25c pieces. It was a very nice brilliant piece with super luster. My focus / how will they be trading - auc vs CAC CPG?

    Coins & Currency
  • LuxorLuxor Posts: 466 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've always felt that * designation was just another gimmick and I'd never pay any type of premium for that designation unless the coin itself stood on its own merits. PCGS made the correct decision IMO by not having such a silly and arbitrary designation.

    Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,424 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Luxor said:
    I've always felt that * designation was just another gimmick and I'd never pay any type of premium for that designation unless the coin itself stood on its own merits. PCGS made the correct decision IMO by not having such a silly and arbitrary designation.

    If that’s the case, how do you feel about designations such as “First Strike”, “First Day of Release”, Early Release”, etc.?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • LuxorLuxor Posts: 466 ✭✭✭✭✭

    <<< If that’s the case, how do you feel about designations such as “First Strike”, “First Day of Release”, Early Release”, etc.? >>>

    In order not to be disrespectful to our hosts here, I would keep my opinions regarding those designations to myself.

    Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,424 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Luxor said:
    <<< If that’s the case, how do you feel about designations such as “First Strike”, “First Day of Release”, Early Release”, etc.? >>>

    In order not to be disrespectful to our hosts here, I would keep my opinions regarding those designations to myself.

    Fair enough - thanks.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,437 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ** But if I’m in the NGC registry and * get extra points the thought May have been it would drive submissions of colorful coins to them.**

    It worked.
    I recently sent five dark side toners in ATS, figuring at least two would *, and none did. I was quite happy with the grades overall though.

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  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,972 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @EliteCollection said:
    I can't imagine the star trademark would uphold in a court. How can a company prevent another from giving a star to a coin? It's like trademarking the +.

    They could just use a different character or other indicator.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,972 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @U1chicago said:
    Maybe they can use a diamond to rival the NGC star?

    Or an eye ball for "eye appeal". Lol

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,972 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @Luxor said:
    <<< If that’s the case, how do you feel about designations such as “First Strike”, “First Day of Release”, Early Release”, etc.? >>>

    In order not to be disrespectful to our hosts here, I would keep my opinions regarding those designations to myself.

    Fair enough - thanks.

    I'll answer: I don't care about any of those designations. It's marketing.

    [I also don't care about registry points or registries, because that's also just marketing.]

    And for what I collect, I don't even care if it is in a slab at all. Although I prefer slabs when buying coins that I have not seen in person.

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