A somewhat surprising upgrade - a coin that came from someone on this forum
U1chicago
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I recall someone posting this coin on the BST when it was originally being auctioned in January in the PCGS holder, I thought the final result was strong but apparently it had a little more room after the upgrade (although with all the fees, the seller doesn't seem to have had as big of a payday). I also was a little surprised with the upgrade of 1.5 points (66 or 66+ seems more appropriate).
It started as a PCGS MS 66 CAC ($1,631.25 with fee in Jan 2023) and went to an NGC MS 67+ star ($2,337.75 with fee in Aug 2023).
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1287780/1882-S-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS-66-CAC-Green-Toned
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1303546/1882-S-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-NGC-MS-67-Toned
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I agree, 66+ cac was the right holder for that coin imo. Now it’s forever in a tomb.
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I guess it depends on what your definition of “right holder” is. To me, the right holder is the one that will net the most money on resale.
I do agree that 67+ is generous grade wise, but in fairness there are enough contact marks and unusually mushy strike for an 1882-S that I am not sure I would have called it an “A” or “B” coin for a 66 either.
Nice coin.
That being said, for an 82-S it's a 66, color or no color.
Soft strike over the ear on the Obverse and the Reed markings above the arrow points on the Reverse it's not a 67, let alone a + & *
The coin looks like an easy 66+ to me.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This one looks like a 6+ to me as well and NGC felt that very attractive color on the reverse bumped it a full point. No surprise here at all as we've all seen myriad attractively toned dollars that would be graded 1 - 2 points lower if not for the really nice eye appealing color.
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Nice color. That's what I think got it the bump ATS.
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And this is something that I never agreed with.. bumping grade point for color
Tough decision, as to what's more better.
The CAC, in the most popular holder, or the upgrade?
Esp with the "+ & *".
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--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Well the auction result says that the upgrade was better since it sold for more money (both auctions happened within the same year and at the same venue). Now if it was a different venue or a different crowd if buyers, we don’t know if the results would have been the same.
66+ is fine, not 67+* IMO
I remember the old days when the better part of wisdom told us it was quite impossible to accurately grade a coin from an online image. Apparently, those days have passed.
I would ask a simple question: Have any of the pundits actually seen this coin in-hand?
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Those days haven't passed. Most of us know the limitations of grading from images, but that doesn't stop us from doing the best we can. Additionally, such grading exercises can still be both fun and educational.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld said: Additionally, such grading exercises can still be both fun and educational.
But this isn't an "exercise" or GTG thread, it's one where the grade is outright criticized based on the image of a coin no one has admitted to having seen in-hand. Also, the price posted by the OP seems to be at odds with the price listed at the NGC cert page which is $1,350.
What do you mean by the price is at odds? 1,350 is the NGC guide price on their cert lookup page and $2,337.75 with fee is the amount it brought at GC last night.
While this wasn't a guess the grade thread, it morphed into one about grading, toning. eye-appeal and the subjectivity in grading. At various times, posters criticize and rave about coins pictured here, without seeing them in hand. I don't see a problem with that, other than perhaps in the cases of coins which are still up for sale.
The strong winning bid, relative to the NGC price guide, was likely due to the very colorful reverse toning (and to a lesser degree, the NGC "Star").
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@U1chicago, I mistakenly thought the price you listed was a guide price and not the sale price.
A pretty coin in any case.
And Great Collection's photography is incredibly consistent.
I like it in the NGC slab with the star designation. I would just send it off for a little trip to CAC, now.
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The star was definitely deserved and I also wonder if CAC would still sticker it (my guess would be no but I've seen other green cac coins increase 1.5 points and green again, so it is possible).
My guess is also no sticker at the new, higher grade. However, since CAC ignores plus grades, as far as they’re concerned, the new grade is 1 point higher, not 1 1/2.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It looks just as good if not better than this PCGS 68+
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That's true; the example I refereed to was also a 1.5 bump but in CAC's eyes it would have been 2 points (a green CAC 65+ to a green CAC 67).
Does anyone know if the original buyer cracked it out before sending the coin ATS? Even if they didn’t it’s a tough way to make $300-$400. The coin may have made multiple trips ATS and there are also shipping and selling fees.
The eye appeal is better on the coin in my original post but the 68+ you show looks cleaner (although I would not have guessed 68+...maybe 67+ had I not known the grade)
I don't know but my guess would be that it was cracked and sent saw. I don't know how many times it was tried. Unless it was show grading or express, it could not have been more than once or twice since the first sale happened in January and grading speeds aren't that quick on the lower tiers.
As far as the profit, I did mention in the original post that it didn't seem like that much given the initial cost of the coin, the risk with cracking, and the fees the buyer had to pay. Still if it's someone that does this for living and they were sure of the result, it's not bad to come out $300-$400 ahead. And if it was someone who gambled without being sure, it is a lucky result since they could have ended up losing money.
By the way, I also had one that I thought could upgrade (and to me looked as good as some higher graded example) but mine came back the same from NGC and PCGS (this was graded in 2022 at PCGS).
Note: what looks like a lamination or some other "artifact" under the O and L of "Dollar" on the reverse of the PCGS TrueView is not actually on the coin; I'm not sure how that got on the photo (maybe something fell on the coin or was on the camera).
Is the 81S a 66+. It looks like that to me. Nice color on the reverse too.
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It's a 65!
YIKES. They seem to be really tough on 81 S because they usually come really nice.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Usually they are tough (like in this case) on all of the 80/81/82 "S" Morgans because they do come nice. But I do see others that upgrade or get a higher grade than I would expect.
NICE
Wow super pickup.
I'm actually liking this one better.
They're grading for their markets. The disparity could well be in their markets.