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1910 reverse of 1909 Class III transitional Lincoln Wheat Cent

Been awhile since I have posted. Since discovering the elusive 1910 with the 1909 reverse Lincoln Wheat Cent things have been insane. The press release was in The Numismatist June 2023. 10 specimens have now been found and verified. NGC became the exclusive grader 12 hours after it being listed on Variety Vista. NGC has posted it on the Variety Plus site. I received the 2023 Newman Numismatic Portal Grant. I wrote a book The Rabbit Hole of the 1909 Lincoln Wheat Cent. My Group…RHRG…Rabbit Hole Research Group…currently has discovered 17 new 1909 Class III DDR’s that are now listed on Variety Vista.







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Comments

  • Peace1Peace1 Posts: 43 ✭✭✭
    edited August 22, 2023 4:29AM

    Duplicate post

  • Peace1Peace1 Posts: 43 ✭✭✭
    edited August 22, 2023 4:30AM

    Duplicate post

  • Peace1Peace1 Posts: 43 ✭✭✭
    edited August 22, 2023 4:30AM

    Duplicate post

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What's the difference between the two reverses?

  • Peace1Peace1 Posts: 43 ✭✭✭

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    What's the difference between the two reverses?

    Brenner’s reverse has a filled N of UNITED. Letters are rounded. E of AMERICA is level with the M and R. Barbers rendition the N is clean and sharp. All the letters are squared off and the E of AMERICA is lower than the M and R

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cool, thanks!

  • RelaxnRelaxn Posts: 990 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Why are you spamming the site with Amazon links? Did you post here to sell books? If so seems like this should be in the BST forum.
    Spamming with Amazon links, to me, weakens the coolness of the discovery.

    Disappointing

    JLS

  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Relaxn There has been an intermittent glitch on the Forum lately that is automatically generating repeat postings.

    @Peace1 Really neat discoveries - thank you for sharing!

  • robecrobec Posts: 6,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’m not sure why you refer to this as a transitional > @Peace1 said:

    @Manifest_Destiny said:

    What's the difference between the two reverses?

    Brenner’s reverse has a filled N of UNITED. Letters are rounded. E of AMERICA is level with the M and R. Barbers rendition the N is clean and sharp. All the letters are squared off and the E of AMERICA is lower than the M and R

    I suppose then also any 1909 VDB with the dot between the D and B closer to the B will be Barber’s version since that only occurs on reverses where the N in UNITED is deep cut.

  • cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 5,801 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It would be useful to see both reverses.

    Many happy BST transactions
  • Peace1Peace1 Posts: 43 ✭✭✭

    @Relaxn said:
    Why are you spamming the site with Amazon links? Did you post here to sell books? If so seems like this should be in the BST forum.
    Spamming with Amazon links, to me, weakens the coolness of the discovery.

    Disappointing

    JLS

    It took two days to even post. I had no intention of multiple posts and it will not let me delete them

  • Peace1Peace1 Posts: 43 ✭✭✭

    @robec said:
    I suppose then also any 1909 VDB with the dot between the D and B closer to the B will be Barber’s version since that only occurs on reverses where the N in UNITED is deep cut.

    Barber’s reverse has the dot between D and B closest to the D. Brenner’s reverse the dot is centered

  • robecrobec Posts: 6,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Peace1 said:

    @robec said:
    I suppose then also any 1909 VDB with the dot between the D and B closer to the B will be Barber’s version since that only occurs on reverses where the N in UNITED is deep cut.

    Barber’s reverse has the dot between D and B closest to the D. Brenner’s reverse the dot is centered

    You’re right……I put the wrong letter. I meant D. 🤪

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,775 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @IkesT said:
    @Relaxn There has been an intermittent glitch on the Forum lately that is automatically generating repeat postings.

    @Peace1 Really neat discoveries - thank you for sharing!

    The timestamp confirmed this to be the case

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Peace1 said:

    @Relaxn said:
    Why are you spamming the site with Amazon links? Did you post here to sell books? If so seems like this should be in the BST forum.
    Spamming with Amazon links, to me, weakens the coolness of the discovery.

    Disappointing

    JLS

    It took two days to even post. I had no intention of multiple posts and it will not let me delete them

    While you can't delete an entire post, in the event that you want to, you can edit it to something as minor/brief as a single letter, number, etc. The same thing happened to me yesterday, and I chose to edit to "Duplicate post deleted".

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,732 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just ordered the 1909 book this morning. Thanks for this post. Great for learning.

    image
  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,111 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see the double die on the T ... is the reverse a double die between the old and new type, giving what you call a 'transitional reverse'?

  • Peace1Peace1 Posts: 43 ✭✭✭

    @davewesen said:
    I see the double die on the T ... is the reverse a double die between the old and new type, giving what you call a 'transitional reverse'?

    Yes the 1909 Class III DDR is Barber’s reverse hubbed on top of Brenner’s reverse. If you do a web search you will find a digital copy on the Newman Numismatic Portal or you can order the book from Amazon that goes into great detail what occurred in 1909

  • Please don’t delete anything! Great job Shawn! Sorry if not spelled right! I think when someone out does your 114-115 yr old discovery then they should do same! Research post share! Oh wait you actually took time to write a book so us others hunters could revisit our collections and add more equity! Thank you for you and your teams hard work! Sell books I know bunch good stuff came in via educated people who know how much time it takes! Keep up the hard work! If you got offended good! Those who did not I appreciate your understanding! Free education and you can actually change the channel if u don’t want to support a fellow numismatist! Sorry just the fact that you would try to delete this thread to make haters happy! Never #downthehole1909

  • Peace1Peace1 Posts: 43 ✭✭✭
    edited April 9, 2024 7:50AM

    Thank you for your support @CDAVI6542

  • WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I got a book ordered via amazon. It's posted for a May delivery. I assume it's being up dated since there are now 70 1909 DDR's id. ?

    WS

    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,539 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Peace1 Congrats on your discovery and book!

    How often does this reverse die have reverse die breaks into the wheat ears? I know - buy the book.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,923 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CDAVI6542 said:
    @relaxn #HATER let’s see your discoveries or what you consider contributing to this hobby besides some random hater-aid oh you must not have any 1909 or 1910’s because if you did you would be thanking this man and his team! Please don’t respond because I am armed and prepared for your battle of wits!

    Clearly you're not. All he asked was why there were duplicate posts.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,967 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Peace1
    Thank you for a most interesting read, both your post and your book. I've read about 1/3 of it today. Amazing that you made this discovery and this is the first I had heard of it. So far, PCGS has not listed photos on CoinFacts(hopefully soon) NGC has photos on their Variety Plus.
    I have either 7 or 9 rolls of 1910 Lincolns and look forward to digging them out and searching. Such fun. lol
    Thank you for your dedication and resultant book.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • Peace1Peace1 Posts: 43 ✭✭✭

    @WaterSport said:
    I got a book ordered via amazon. It's posted for a May delivery. I assume it's being up dated since there are now 70 1909 DDR's id. ?

    WS

    @WaterSport seems the hardcovers from Amazon take 6-8 weeks to deliver ….my author copies almost 3 months! No changes have been made to the book

    Shawn

  • Peace1Peace1 Posts: 43 ✭✭✭

    @Barberian said:
    @Peace1 Congrats on your discovery and book!

    How often does this reverse die have reverse die breaks into the wheat ears? I know - buy the book.

    The 1910 will show three die breaks. This is shown in the book, on Variety Vista and on NGC VARIETY PLUS pages

  • Peace1Peace1 Posts: 43 ✭✭✭

    @jesbroken said:
    @Peace1
    Thank you for a most interesting read, both your post and your book. I've read about 1/3 of it today. Amazing that you made this discovery and this is the first I had heard of it. So far, PCGS has not listed photos on CoinFacts(hopefully soon) NGC has photos on their Variety Plus.
    I have either 7 or 9 rolls of 1910 Lincolns and look forward to digging them out and searching. Such fun. lol
    Thank you for your dedication and resultant book.
    Jim

    @jesbroken thank you for your feedback. Feel free to contact me with any questions!

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,967 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I missed someone already saying this, I'm sorry, but the 2nd NGC PhotoVision Plus photo must really be an Early Die State as the die cracks are hardly noticeable. Would that be correct?
    Jim



    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,967 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Have any vg-vf examples been found? If so, are there any photos available? I know in your book, you say mostly higher grades were discernable, but any more worn found?
    Jim

    PS. PM Sent with photo


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • robecrobec Posts: 6,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cheezhed said:
    It would be useful to see both reverses.

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