A Few More bad coins and "PCGS" slabs... edited/ clarified by @jbo...

burfle23

The 1896-S's were previously documented; the 1878's were new to me:

Best, Jack.

CharlotteDude

I had an opportunity to examine those coins in hand last week. I’m not a Morgan guy, but I immediately questioned their authenticity… the wrong PCGS label font was the first thing to jump out. Then it was the unnaturally “frosty” manufactured-looking “luster”, and very mushy strike, not to mention the “8TF” is incorrectly attributed … they’re both 7TFs. Unfortunately, even coins like these can deceive a novice collector.

coinbuf

I just want to say thanks for what you do to present this type of information for the collecting public to see and know about.

slider23

Thanks for posting. All four holders have the same bar code. It appears the counterfeiter is not spending money or time to get the details correct.

dcarr

@slider23 said:
Thanks for posting. All four holders have the same bar code. It appears the counterfeiter is not spending money or time to get the details correct.

The "8TF" pieces don't even have 8 tail feathers.

steve76020

the reverse of the 78 looks like the reverse of a 79 but not denoted

steve76020

dang good fakes tho

bigjpst

1878s look like Jay Leno variety.

slider23

The barcode comes up on these counterfeits: 9830.68/80501712. A PCGS 1989 $10 gold Eagle MS68

lilolme

@slider23 said:
The barcode comes up on these counterfeits: 9830.68/80501712. A PCGS 1989 $10 gold Eagle MS68

When I used the pcgs cert app the bar code came back as invalid cert number, please check the cert number and try again. So I did on the others and all the same. On some or many it does not even read them as if it is not a pcgs cert bar code. Then some read correctly.

These fake slabs are back to having the pcgs logo in the corner plastic. Seemed to go missing for some recent ones. New supplier or back to the old one.

steve76020

the second 1878 looks to be the snarling liberty variety where liberty looks to be getting ready to bite someones neck

slider23

@lilolme said:

@slider23 said:
The barcode comes up on these counterfeits: 9830.68/80501712. A PCGS 1989 $10 gold Eagle MS68

When I used the pcgs cert app the bar code came back as invalid cert number, please check the cert number and try again. So I did on the others and all the same. On some or many it does not even read them as if it is not a pcgs cert bar code. Then some read correctly.

These fake slabs are back to having the pcgs logo in the corner plastic. Seemed to go missing for some recent ones. New supplier or back to the old one.

I do not have the PCGS app to read bar codes, so I am not sure what it is reading. Interesting, I used a standard barcode reader and the barcode came up with the following digits: 9830.68/80501712. If you enter in the PCGS cert number 80501712, it comes up PCGS 1989 $10 gold Eagle MS68. Below is a photo of the 1989 $10 Gold and the barcode is not the same as the counterfeits. I am not sure what the counterfeiter is doing with the barcodes.

lilolme

I tried the pcgs cert app on that $10 gold above and it came back with that cert number look up information. But that bar code is on the $10 gold is different from the fake ones. Start on either end and just look at the first five bars (thin, thick thing) and they are not the same. Oh well, one thing for sure they don't match or work for the fake slab coin.

burfle23

They all read the same for me...

lilolme

I don't know what it is that makes the fake slab read like that but the two bar codes are not the same. If the fake slabs are reading the bar code of the $10 gold, then should not the $10 gold have the same bar code of the fake slabs? Or are there two bar codes for the same thing? I am not a bar code type so I don't know if this is possible.

Here are the two bar codes - The fake slab and the $10 gold and they don't look the same to me.

Also the pcgs cert verification app is reading the pcgs $10 gold bar code as the $10 gold. The pcgs cert verification app is reading the fake slab bar code as invalid cert number try again. Not reading them the same. Is there something in the pcgs app that makes this happen?

burfle23

The two don't technically read the same...

lilolme

Interesting. Thanks.
I am still confused but a little clearer. So many more numbers on the pcgs $10 gold??? I definitely don't know bar codes.
I think I will stick with the pcgs cert app for the pcgs slabs.

lilolme

I found this pcgs page on barcodes. I don't see the date of the change but it states that pcgs was switching to a new bar code layout. This goes with the above code from @burfle23 for the $10 gold with all the extra numbers (0). Does not agree with the fake slab bar code.

https://www.pcgs.com/barcode

jbo

Hi all.

I'm the person these coins came to. To clarify, not a dealer in a shop. I handle consignments for the coin club at my work and also help people sell on eBay. Usually we get people who don't know what they have (Susan B Anthony dollars and Ikes mostly), but this was someone in the club. I don't know what he paid for them, but it sounded like the seller promised his money back if he returns the "coins". He mentioned he was hoping for a 10k payday, so that might give you a ballpark. PCGS retail price is about 20k for the real deals. He did approve of me taking them to Pittsburgh so if anyone would like to see them in hand send me a PM.

Just some comments on the coins.

1. The font instantly gave them away. The serifs in the G are straight, not slanted.
2. I took them to my LCS over the weekend to check on the XRF. Mostly copper-nickel.
3. All four of them rattle in the holder.
4. The 8TF coins both have 7 tail feathers.
5. The 96s coins have a reverse of 78.
6. The barcodes don't scan, nor are there NFC chips, but the QR codes on the back do scan to the original certificates.
7. There's quite a few spikes near the denticles of the coins.

Joe

slider23

@burfle23 said:
The two don't technically read the same...

Thanks for the clarification. I have not used the barcode reader in a while, and I forgot how the barcode numbering sequence shows the cert number as demonstrated on the $10 gold example. The counterfeiter created a barcode that reads exactly like a PCGS cert number shown on a coin with a period, slash mark added and the zeros removed.

lilolme

That was basically the same thought I had after finding the pcgs barcode page. That is once I understood what the pcgs barcode should be (22 digit number or 16 digit for the 'older' ones), it then said the fake slab label was created with a bar code to exactly match the label print. I wondered did they create a fake slab for the $10 gold somewhere and this fake barcode? Then just reused this barcode on other slabs? If not, then why did they use the $10 gold for the fake barcode? Not important but a curiosity thought.

CharlotteDude

@jbo said:
Hi all.

I'm the person these coins came to. To clarify, not a dealer in a shop. I handle consignments for the coin club at my work and also help people sell on eBay. Usually we get people who don't know what they have (Susan B Anthony dollars and Ikes mostly), but this was someone in the club. I don't know what he paid for them, but it sounded like the seller promised his money back if he returns the "coins". He mentioned he was hoping for a 10k payday, so that might give you a ballpark. PCGS retail price is about 20k for the real deals. He did approve of me taking them to Pittsburgh so if anyone would like to see them in hand send me a PM.

Just some comments on the coins.

1. The font instantly gave them away. The serifs in the G are straight, not slanted.
2. I took them to my LCS over the weekend to check on the XRF. Mostly copper-nickel.
3. All four of them rattle in the holder.
4. The 8TF coins both have 7 tail feathers.
5. The 96s coins have a reverse of 78.
6. The barcodes don't scan, nor are there NFC chips, but the QR codes on the back do scan to the original certificates.
7. There's quite a few spikes near the denticles of the coins.

Joe

Welcome to the boards, Joe!