Precedents. Sorry about that. I'm surprised you didn't choose to read in to the error.
What I mean is, I really doubt anybody is paying 100 bucks for a reprint without reading somewhere that the card is worth 100 bucks. I don't think there is a big race to buy reprints driving the market up.
It's an interesting video. Wilson pretty much says, as much as trying not to say it, that the Jordan was reprinted or counterfeited at a high level of quality at least once. I can be more specific if you like.
He makes it sound like the whole situation is very shady.
Wilson is just a dealer from the 80s who bought a bunch of Star cards. He sounds knowledgeable. He also sounds like he really wants you to like Star cards.
I don't know who Steve Taft is. He's not a very good listener though.
@CardGeek said:
It's an interesting video. Wilson pretty much says, as much as trying not to say it, that the Jordan was reprinted at least once. I can be more specific if you like.
He makes it sound like the whole situation is very shady.
Wilson is just a dealer from the 80s who bought a bunch of Star cards. He sounds knowledgeable. He also sounds like he really wants you to like Star cards.
I don't know who Steve Taft is. He's not a very good listener though.
LoL! This entire comment you just posted shows that you should probably be the last person in this thread spouting off your opinions on Star cards as facts.
You clearly have no clue who each guy is and just the fact that you don't knwo who Steve Taft is yet continue this crusade against Star cards just shows no one should be taking what you say seriously. 🤣
He does say he is the reason PSA stopped grading Star cards originally. He says there are reprints of Star cards. The 101 wasn't included in this batch of reprints. These reprints are of slightly lower quality than the originals due of poor registration. He sent one to PSA before he had determined there was a problem and PSA graded it mint 9. Then after some time had passed and events unfolded he called PSA and told PSA that they had screwed up. So PSA stopped grading Star cards.
The problem here is, what if there were no registration error. Then the problem wouldn't have been caught.
The source of these reprints told investigators that he had bought the reprinted cards from the guy who owned Star. The source of the cards also worked in a print shop that Star used.
He also says that the guy who owned Star printed and backdated a bunch of different star sets.
Based on all the stuff Wilson says the guy who owned Star absolutely did do, if the guy who owned Star never reprinted that Jordan, I'd be amazed. He would have to be the most ethical fraud on the planet.
Thanks for the video. It answered a lot of questions about Star...and raised even more questions. LOL
I didn't know who Steve Taft is.
I'm not familiar with the important players of the Hobby that are sometimes discussed on this forum.
Pretty amazing Steve even remembers as much as he does, so many years later.
Not a fan of Geoff. I've watched a few of his YT videos. He certainly loves the sound of his own voice.
You can tell he really only wanted to know about Jordan cards.
You can see him squirming in his chair, shaking his leg whenever Steve started talking about players other than Jordan. LOL
@erikthredd said:
Ironically,this recent Steve Taft interview with Geoff Wilson at the National popped up in my YT recommendations today. They spend over an hour talking about the history of Star basketball cards.
See, Steve Taft interview with Geoff Wilson, says to me that Taft is the interviewer and Wilson is being interviewed. Taft's show.
@CardGeek said: Maybe I misunderstood a little bit.
He does say he is the reason PSA stopped grading Star cards originally. He says there are reprints of Star cards. The 101 wasn't included in this batch of reprints. These reprints are of slightly lower quality than the originals due of poor registration. He sent one to PSA before he had determined there was a problem and PSA graded it mint 9. Then after some time had passed and events unfolded he called PSA and told PSA that they had screwed up. So PSA stopped grading Star cards.
The problem here is, what if there were no registration error. Then the problem wouldn't have been caught.
The source of these reprints told investigators that he had bought the reprinted cards from the guy who owned Star. The source of the cards also worked in a print shop that Star used.
He also says that the guy who owned Star printed and backdated a bunch of different star sets.
Based on all the stuff Wilson says the guy who owned Star absolutely did do, if the guy who owned Star never reprinted that Jordan, I'd be amazed. He would have to be the most ethical fraud on the planet.
You did. You do know that the guy on the left is Geoff Wilson and the one on the right is Steve Taft,right?
I wouldn't listen to anything that Geoff Wilson has to say whether its about Star cards,card investments or just the hobby in general. He's shown to be pretty clueless at times and his own investment losses are pretty well documened. He's the last guy that should be telling anyone what to buy/not buy.
@CardGeek said:
Interestingly, from this video it seems to me that Steve Taft doesn't know very much about Star cards.
But, here is an article from 2010 calling him a "Renowned Star Cards Expert."
He's the guy that PSA & BGS both turned to on how to spot aif a Star card is fake or not. It was just that PSA for whatever internal reasoning decided to no take the time to learn the differences until very recently.
Taft is well known throughout the hobby for 30+ years spent on this subject but we're supposed to ignore anything he has to say and just take your opinion as fact because some guy with 308 comments tells us that this is the same conversation he's had on this site like 3 times in the past 3 years. 🤣😂🤣 Cmon man.
I don't consider myself a Star card expert or even close to one,I just spent enough personal time over the past 5-6 years learning as much as possible about what I would be buying as a Michael Jordan collector who likes his Star collection. If there was one person out there whose advice I would take on this subject, it would be Steve Taft's. The next guy that I'd probably turn to if I had a Star question would be the guy who you've been going back & forth with, Arthur aka ReggieCleveland.
if you don't agree with the Taft or just want to stay far away from Star cards as a whole,that is your prerogative but I do have to say that it cracks me up when someone mentions the 84 Star 101 vs the 86 Fleer 57 and so many owners of one or the other have to get all territorial to protect their investment lol.
Just because someone had no interest in purchasing the other doesn't change the fact that both were offically licensed cards by the NBA. When some of those same collectors were too lazy to take the time to learn the differences between what is fake and what isn't, all I can say is thank you! That just means there are less buyers to compete with for what are some pretty great looking cards. 😉👍
Thanks for the video. It answered a lot of questions about Star...and raised even more questions. LOL
I didn't know who Steve Taft is.
I'm not familiar with the important players of the Hobby that are sometimes discussed on this forum.
Pretty amazing Steve even remembers as much as he does, so many years later.
Not a fan of Geoff. I've watched a few of his YT videos. He certainly loves the sound of his own voice.
You can tell he really only wanted to know about Jordan cards.
You can see him squirming in his chair, shaking his leg whenever Steve started talking about players other than Jordan. LOL
Yeah,unfortunately Star can be very confusing and that pretty much stems from everything that happened after those original three seasons when they were licensed. The Shop at Home scandal was bad enough but since then so many scammers have been producing all kinds of Star Jordan crap and trying to either pass it off as original or even as SAH stuff,for which there are people out there who collected that stuff,myself included.
You just have to learn the differences between what is real and what isn't if you want to collect these cards without getting burned.
Well, Taft is pretty much saying the same thing I've been saying in this whole thread.
You've spent the past 5 or 6 years huh?
You can't tell what is real when the dude with the original resources was printing it the whole time. Taft can't really say the owner of star didn't do that. He just doesn't want it to be true. The guy was obviously printing tons of stuff he shouldn't have been printing. You're telling me you think he wouldn't have printed more Jordan RCs after 1984? Because, well, he just wouldn't have done that?
@CardGeek said:
Well, Taft is pretty much saying the same thing I've been saying in this whole thread.
You've spent the past 5 or 6 years huh?
Yeah,digging thru all of the info I could find online about what was part of the SAH stuff era and what other Star Jordan stuff came after it. That research had nothing to do with the original 80's stuff that I've known about since it was released.
I do think it funny you're trying to question me when you just spent time criticizing a guy and couldn't even tell us which one he was in the video LoL.
Is it probable other people have made reprints of Jordan's 101 RC and were circulated between 1984 and 2020ish?
I'd like to get either a psa10 57 Fleer or 101 Star but always afraid I will fall victim to a trap since I'm always trying to time the market with the cheapest option.
He's just a dealer from the 80s who bought a lot of Star. He has probably looked at a ton of it. It sounds like he has a lot. It is what it is. I said he sounds knowledgeable. You can't be knowledgeable about stuff you have no access to information on though.
The thing is, that Star Jordan is Jordan's RC. It was also likely produced well in to the 90s. Even though it was likely produced for a long time, that doesn't mean it is common. It just means that card may have paid the Star guys rent for a really long time. It should probably be called 84-??? That would upset the industry though. Guys want to charge big money.
The fleer card isn't really a rookie and was printed in huge quantities. Guys want to charge big money
@JolleyWrencher said:
Is it probable other people have made reprints of Jordan's 101 RC and were circulated between 1984 and 2020ish?
I'd like to get either a psa10 57 Fleer or 101 Star but always afraid I will fall victim to a trap since I'm always trying to time the market with the cheapest option.
Both of the 84 Star and the 86 Fleer have been counterfeited since the early 90's. too many people try to make it seem like the Star is worse,probably because PSA wouldn't grade them, but they're not any different than MJ 's 86 Fleer when it comes to scammers producing fakes.
@CardGeek said:
He's just a dealer from the 80s who bought a lot of Star. He has probably looked at a ton of it. It sounds like he has a lot. It is what it is. I said he sounds knowledgeable. You can't be knowledgeable about stuff you have no access to information on though.
Its listed as originating from the HSN (often confused with SAH) but was something someone printed after, trying to legitimize as coming from Star cards. Wherever these came from,they were produced in larger sets than just 14 cards (28/64/128) and came in different colors (red/white/blue/black) and had many different early images of Jordan.
There's the original Star era stuff from the '80's that came from the Star company and was licensed by the NBA.
Then there are the SAH era stuff from the '90's that also came from the Star company but was printed mid 90's that wasn't licensed.
Then there's stuff like in that ebay link above that probably was printed at some point after the year 2000 that had nothing to with the Star company. There are numerous other individual jordan cards and sets like this that as a Mj collector I was interested in collecting,for the right price, so i researched the subject as much as possible to see what was what before deciding on if I wanted to buy or not.
@CardGeek said:
The difference is the guy at Star, who owned the original production materials was printing stuff he shouldn't have been printing.
Yes, Levin got caught and since then avid Star collectors like Steve Taft have been able to sort out what was printed before and what was after going off of the cards themselves.
That's the part that you & others don't seem to get,we're not talking about Fleer Metal precious Gems here,Star cards were the most basic of cards and very easy to tell the difference between a fake or not. As the 86 Fleer are,you just need to take the time to learn the differences and the one guy that did that better than anyone else,you seem to dislike for some reason lol.
Like, if Fleer decided to print more 86 Fleer Jordans, that looked exactly the same as the original ones, would you still pay big money for it?
I pulled my '86 Fleer Jordan in 1986 from a .65 pack of cards. In fact, i owned 9 each of his #57 & his sticker before selling all but one of each in HS. For all I know,fleer could have been printing them until they went bankrupt in the 2000's lol.
Heck, I bet Upper Deck is still printing '89 Ken Griffey Jr's as we speak LoL!
In the video Taft says there are reprints that he can spot due to registration issues. So we know that reprints exist. That doesn't mean that there were no reprints without registration issues. The guy at Star was a fraud. Printing stuff he wasn't supposed to be printing. It was commonly said on the street that this was happening in the early 90s.
If Fleer started printing 86 Jordans, would you still pay big money? It's big responsibility when you have the power to print stuff worth more than anything the US Government is printing. Who knows where those Jordan plates are now.
No,I'm just seeing that this back & forth with you is going nowhere.
Who knows where those Jordan plates are now.
Which plates are we talking about here again? Because,you know, Fleer went bankrupt too and their '86 Fleer printing plates are somewhere out there as well. Just knowing that should be enough to twist that at tinfoil cap a little tighter before you keep asking the same rhetorical questions over & over lol.
Seriously though,i'm done with going in circles with you, I recommend just staying away from Star cards entirely if it bothers you this much.
I have a couple. Showtime Lakers who I saw play as a kid.
I'd never buy one of those Jordans for these prices. Maybe not never, but, how much money would I have to have before I would feel comfortable dumping cash in to something like that? I'd have to be Elon rich. Liquid Elon rich. Same with the Fleer. As your novice financial advisor I don't suggest you do it either. If you're thinking about it, you should probably consult the sports card market report first.
For what it's worth. You all are passionate and want the same thing...truth. I appreciate both sides because it draws out more information for somebody to try and decide for themselves. Most of us likely have lots more in common than we do which divides us.
Personally...I've lost many childhood friends who have sent me pictures of tinfoil hats. I wear it like a badge of honor because it shows I am one who questions and seeks to understand rather than put all my trust in what I read, watch, or am told.
We're way off topic but I think people find a lot of interest in reprint topics and maybe there should be a subcategory for such things as counterfeits, scandals, and other activities to be aware of.
There's a counterfeit thread here like every couple weeks. There are 2 counterfeit threads running right now, not including this one. One about a 52 mantle and another about a fake panini box. The Mantle looks fake to me. This card is much easier to fake than either of those things. Well, maybe the panini box is easier if the wrapping was saved and just put back together. If they had to print and build a whole Panini box, though.
One time I bought some resealed MTG starters from someone like 1.5 hours from me. They looked questionable when I bought them. But, I figured, why would anyone do that. Not everything stays spotless after 20 years sitting around sealed. I posted one of them on eBay. Then the person I bought them from sent me an email laughing at me. I took down the listing and cracked the starter. Resealed. Anger. heh.
I've thought some about the 31 Jordan thing. Dude sent them to BGS. BGS wouldn't give 1 a 10. In one of his videos he says they he has all the grader notes where BGS states what they think is wrong with every card. I'd like to see the grader notes. I know BGS 10s are really tough. You would think that if PSA thinks they're all GEM MINT, BGS would like 1 of them. Not 3.2% of his PSA 10s were BGS 10s. I could extrapolate a lot of tinfoil hat theories? Like, what was the guys motivation for making these videos?
@CardGeek said:
The difference is the guy at Star, who owned the original production materials was printing stuff he shouldn't have been printing.
Like, if Fleer decided to print more 86 Fleer Jordans, that looked exactly the same as the original ones, would you still pay big money for it?
The original Star basketball cards were printed by a Philidelphia printing company. The printing company hat got busted was in Florida. They would have to go back to the original printing company and use the original equipment if they wanted to make perfect counterfeits.
If you watch the video they talk about the chain of custody a little bit. Original production materials can move around. The guy being interviewed says he has original production transparencies. That whole process can be recreated. There was probably more than one set of plates in the first place. Star would gotten the plates back from the printer most definitely.
I'm not telling you not to buy Jordan RCs. I'm just saying know what you're buying. Know what it is. If you're paying huge money for these cards, know the history. This stuff doesn't have the best history.
I was looking at Star cards last night. Some stuff I think is cool and would like. I'm just not going to pay those prices. Even the stuff that isn't Jordan is unreasonably expensive, to me. I'm being driven out of the hobby.
It's like, I have to pay 40 bucks for some card that was considered totally crappy when I was a kid, in any grade that would be collectible. It turns out a total turd is right around 40 bucks on eBay if it's a PSA 10. I could pay less for raw. But, because the graded stuff exists, I'd never be able to get money back out if I buy raw. The whole thing that I thought was cool about these markets as a kid was that you could put money in and get money out. Now, that seem to me to be very difficult except at the absolute top of the market, where the prices are such that I would never put that money in to a piece of card board. Even if the picture on it were cool. You don't want to be the guy getting stuck with the cold potato.
@CardGeek said:
The difference is the guy at Star, who owned the original production materials was printing stuff he shouldn't have been printing.
Like, if Fleer decided to print more 86 Fleer Jordans, that looked exactly the same as the original ones, would you still pay big money for it?
The original Star basketball cards were printed by a Philidelphia printing company. The printing company hat got busted was in Florida. They would have to go back to the original printing company and use the original equipment if they wanted to make perfect counterfeits.
That is incorrect.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@Cakes said:
PSA recently accepting them speaks volumes to me. I would love to own a nice Star MJ Rookie but even one with average centering is out of my price range.
I feel the need to restate: PSA recently accepting them speaks volumes to me.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
@Cakes said:
PSA recently accepting them speaks volumes to me. I would love to own a nice Star MJ Rookie but even one with average centering is out of my price range.
I feel the need to restate: PSA recently accepting them speaks volumes to me.
Why does it speak volumes?
One thing about this video that is pretty interesting to me is this. A few times in this video the older guy will say something, making a point. Then the younger guy will comment on the older guys statement, sounding like he didn't hear what the older guy said and slanting it as if to make the statement in to what the younger guy wanted to hear instead of what the older guy actually said. Then the older guy will just kinda give up and go along with what the younger guy is saying. Like, when the younger guy becomes the older guy a little way down the road, the message is going to be completely different.
Comments
I’d take one but I settled for an 8.5
Presidents?
Precedents. Sorry about that. I'm surprised you didn't choose to read in to the error.
What I mean is, I really doubt anybody is paying 100 bucks for a reprint without reading somewhere that the card is worth 100 bucks. I don't think there is a big race to buy reprints driving the market up.
Ironically,this recent Steve Taft interview with Geoff Wilson at the National popped up in my YT recommendations today. They spend over an hour talking about the history of Star basketball cards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7CpI1qiRvo&list=TLPQMTgwODIwMjNvFmMaJ6RHJA&index=1
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
It's an interesting video. Wilson pretty much says, as much as trying not to say it, that the Jordan was reprinted or counterfeited at a high level of quality at least once. I can be more specific if you like.
He makes it sound like the whole situation is very shady.
Wilson is just a dealer from the 80s who bought a bunch of Star cards. He sounds knowledgeable. He also sounds like he really wants you to like Star cards.
I don't know who Steve Taft is. He's not a very good listener though.
LoL! This entire comment you just posted shows that you should probably be the last person in this thread spouting off your opinions on Star cards as facts.
You clearly have no clue who each guy is and just the fact that you don't knwo who Steve Taft is yet continue this crusade against Star cards just shows no one should be taking what you say seriously. 🤣
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Maybe I misunderstood a little bit.
He does say he is the reason PSA stopped grading Star cards originally. He says there are reprints of Star cards. The 101 wasn't included in this batch of reprints. These reprints are of slightly lower quality than the originals due of poor registration. He sent one to PSA before he had determined there was a problem and PSA graded it mint 9. Then after some time had passed and events unfolded he called PSA and told PSA that they had screwed up. So PSA stopped grading Star cards.
The problem here is, what if there were no registration error. Then the problem wouldn't have been caught.
The source of these reprints told investigators that he had bought the reprinted cards from the guy who owned Star. The source of the cards also worked in a print shop that Star used.
He also says that the guy who owned Star printed and backdated a bunch of different star sets.
Based on all the stuff Wilson says the guy who owned Star absolutely did do, if the guy who owned Star never reprinted that Jordan, I'd be amazed. He would have to be the most ethical fraud on the planet.
Interestingly, from this video it seems to me that Steve Taft doesn't know very much about Star cards.
But, here is an article from 2010 calling him a "Renowned Star Cards Expert."
https://jordancards.com/blog/the-real-star-co-cards-story-interview-with-renowned-star-cards-expert-steve-taft/
Thanks for the video. It answered a lot of questions about Star...and raised even more questions. LOL
I didn't know who Steve Taft is.
I'm not familiar with the important players of the Hobby that are sometimes discussed on this forum.
Pretty amazing Steve even remembers as much as he does, so many years later.
Not a fan of Geoff. I've watched a few of his YT videos. He certainly loves the sound of his own voice.
You can tell he really only wanted to know about Jordan cards.
You can see him squirming in his chair, shaking his leg whenever Steve started talking about players other than Jordan. LOL
Oh do I have the guys mixed up?
See, Steve Taft interview with Geoff Wilson, says to me that Taft is the interviewer and Wilson is being interviewed. Taft's show.
You did. You do know that the guy on the left is Geoff Wilson and the one on the right is Steve Taft,right?
I wouldn't listen to anything that Geoff Wilson has to say whether its about Star cards,card investments or just the hobby in general. He's shown to be pretty clueless at times and his own investment losses are pretty well documened. He's the last guy that should be telling anyone what to buy/not buy.
He's the guy that PSA & BGS both turned to on how to spot aif a Star card is fake or not. It was just that PSA for whatever internal reasoning decided to no take the time to learn the differences until very recently.
Taft is well known throughout the hobby for 30+ years spent on this subject but we're supposed to ignore anything he has to say and just take your opinion as fact because some guy with 308 comments tells us that this is the same conversation he's had on this site like 3 times in the past 3 years. 🤣😂🤣 Cmon man.
I don't consider myself a Star card expert or even close to one,I just spent enough personal time over the past 5-6 years learning as much as possible about what I would be buying as a Michael Jordan collector who likes his Star collection. If there was one person out there whose advice I would take on this subject, it would be Steve Taft's. The next guy that I'd probably turn to if I had a Star question would be the guy who you've been going back & forth with, Arthur aka ReggieCleveland.
if you don't agree with the Taft or just want to stay far away from Star cards as a whole,that is your prerogative but I do have to say that it cracks me up when someone mentions the 84 Star 101 vs the 86 Fleer 57 and so many owners of one or the other have to get all territorial to protect their investment lol.
Just because someone had no interest in purchasing the other doesn't change the fact that both were offically licensed cards by the NBA. When some of those same collectors were too lazy to take the time to learn the differences between what is fake and what isn't, all I can say is thank you! That just means there are less buyers to compete with for what are some pretty great looking cards. 😉👍
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Yeah,unfortunately Star can be very confusing and that pretty much stems from everything that happened after those original three seasons when they were licensed. The Shop at Home scandal was bad enough but since then so many scammers have been producing all kinds of Star Jordan crap and trying to either pass it off as original or even as SAH stuff,for which there are people out there who collected that stuff,myself included.
You just have to learn the differences between what is real and what isn't if you want to collect these cards without getting burned.
Here's a good resource for Star cards if you didn't hear it mentioned in the video.
https://www.basketballgold.com/index.php
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Well, Taft is pretty much saying the same thing I've been saying in this whole thread.
You've spent the past 5 or 6 years huh?
You can't tell what is real when the dude with the original resources was printing it the whole time. Taft can't really say the owner of star didn't do that. He just doesn't want it to be true. The guy was obviously printing tons of stuff he shouldn't have been printing. You're telling me you think he wouldn't have printed more Jordan RCs after 1984? Because, well, he just wouldn't have done that?
Yeah,digging thru all of the info I could find online about what was part of the SAH stuff era and what other Star Jordan stuff came after it. That research had nothing to do with the original 80's stuff that I've known about since it was released.
I do think it funny you're trying to question me when you just spent time criticizing a guy and couldn't even tell us which one he was in the video LoL.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Is it probable other people have made reprints of Jordan's 101 RC and were circulated between 1984 and 2020ish?
I'd like to get either a psa10 57 Fleer or 101 Star but always afraid I will fall victim to a trap since I'm always trying to time the market with the cheapest option.
He's just a dealer from the 80s who bought a lot of Star. He has probably looked at a ton of it. It sounds like he has a lot. It is what it is. I said he sounds knowledgeable. You can't be knowledgeable about stuff you have no access to information on though.
The thing is, that Star Jordan is Jordan's RC. It was also likely produced well in to the 90s. Even though it was likely produced for a long time, that doesn't mean it is common. It just means that card may have paid the Star guys rent for a really long time. It should probably be called 84-??? That would upset the industry though. Guys want to charge big money.
The fleer card isn't really a rookie and was printed in huge quantities. Guys want to charge big money
Both of the 84 Star and the 86 Fleer have been counterfeited since the early 90's. too many people try to make it seem like the Star is worse,probably because PSA wouldn't grade them, but they're not any different than MJ 's 86 Fleer when it comes to scammers producing fakes.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
The difference is the guy at Star, who owned the original production materials was printing stuff he shouldn't have been printing.
Like, if Fleer decided to print more 86 Fleer Jordans, that looked exactly the same as the original ones, would you still pay big money for it?
Hence why I added the remark about the 5-6 years of learning what was what when it came to Jordan Star cards.
Like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175411284086?hash=item28d753c876:g:OTQAAOSwIQ5jHKyb&amdata=enc:AQAIAAABEA3WdrKRs92D+qrIVpo9ciiQeCM1z39Y5nAAmWyCrNNaHdpgrX0FoGD9FsSgyt0kf+iU71bJ19ziZaXUHCmYUVkrHLOcRKClhPCbeYoff2jWJ4+pW44Z3Oiz+bhOWHQu9kgDrHuyGpSEN+l0vuiKsKcwjpN/OYniCuJtqzFWXcyBZj0yWOk3AtLPqbDbG7l2IVNwDk7Ld9i/U02OSBWN4CE3tRIamydcUPAD8JLLkmJGN39h2f1l2cvJ13aPwO48OFTiDtCzC1ButlxCnJiYCJmeUCJQdMXSARDIuHyn/TrSh0MXhQ/aa4PM7YK0IQqgHNcOj1H1T8wenzHlYGBtlrICSlMmm3jSTJGwKQCc30x4|tkp:Bk9SR5iZmK_BYg
Its listed as originating from the HSN (often confused with SAH) but was something someone printed after, trying to legitimize as coming from Star cards. Wherever these came from,they were produced in larger sets than just 14 cards (28/64/128) and came in different colors (red/white/blue/black) and had many different early images of Jordan.
There's the original Star era stuff from the '80's that came from the Star company and was licensed by the NBA.
Then there are the SAH era stuff from the '90's that also came from the Star company but was printed mid 90's that wasn't licensed.
Then there's stuff like in that ebay link above that probably was printed at some point after the year 2000 that had nothing to with the Star company. There are numerous other individual jordan cards and sets like this that as a Mj collector I was interested in collecting,for the right price, so i researched the subject as much as possible to see what was what before deciding on if I wanted to buy or not.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Yes, Levin got caught and since then avid Star collectors like Steve Taft have been able to sort out what was printed before and what was after going off of the cards themselves.
That's the part that you & others don't seem to get,we're not talking about Fleer Metal precious Gems here,Star cards were the most basic of cards and very easy to tell the difference between a fake or not. As the 86 Fleer are,you just need to take the time to learn the differences and the one guy that did that better than anyone else,you seem to dislike for some reason lol.
I pulled my '86 Fleer Jordan in 1986 from a .65 pack of cards. In fact, i owned 9 each of his #57 & his sticker before selling all but one of each in HS. For all I know,fleer could have been printing them until they went bankrupt in the 2000's lol.
Heck, I bet Upper Deck is still printing '89 Ken Griffey Jr's as we speak LoL!
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
In the video Taft says there are reprints that he can spot due to registration issues. So we know that reprints exist. That doesn't mean that there were no reprints without registration issues. The guy at Star was a fraud. Printing stuff he wasn't supposed to be printing. It was commonly said on the street that this was happening in the early 90s.
If Fleer started printing 86 Jordans, would you still pay big money? It's big responsibility when you have the power to print stuff worth more than anything the US Government is printing. Who knows where those Jordan plates are now.
Aaaand we've reached that point. Later homie!
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
You're being obtuse.
No,I'm just seeing that this back & forth with you is going nowhere.
Who knows where those Jordan plates are now.
Which plates are we talking about here again? Because,you know, Fleer went bankrupt too and their '86 Fleer printing plates are somewhere out there as well. Just knowing that should be enough to twist that at tinfoil cap a little tighter before you keep asking the same rhetorical questions over & over lol.
Seriously though,i'm done with going in circles with you, I recommend just staying away from Star cards entirely if it bothers you this much.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I have a couple. Showtime Lakers who I saw play as a kid.
I'd never buy one of those Jordans for these prices. Maybe not never, but, how much money would I have to have before I would feel comfortable dumping cash in to something like that? I'd have to be Elon rich. Liquid Elon rich. Same with the Fleer. As your novice financial advisor I don't suggest you do it either. If you're thinking about it, you should probably consult the sports card market report first.
For what it's worth. You all are passionate and want the same thing...truth. I appreciate both sides because it draws out more information for somebody to try and decide for themselves. Most of us likely have lots more in common than we do which divides us.
Personally...I've lost many childhood friends who have sent me pictures of tinfoil hats. I wear it like a badge of honor because it shows I am one who questions and seeks to understand rather than put all my trust in what I read, watch, or am told.
We're way off topic but I think people find a lot of interest in reprint topics and maybe there should be a subcategory for such things as counterfeits, scandals, and other activities to be aware of.
There's a counterfeit thread here like every couple weeks. There are 2 counterfeit threads running right now, not including this one. One about a 52 mantle and another about a fake panini box. The Mantle looks fake to me. This card is much easier to fake than either of those things. Well, maybe the panini box is easier if the wrapping was saved and just put back together. If they had to print and build a whole Panini box, though.
One time I bought some resealed MTG starters from someone like 1.5 hours from me. They looked questionable when I bought them. But, I figured, why would anyone do that. Not everything stays spotless after 20 years sitting around sealed. I posted one of them on eBay. Then the person I bought them from sent me an email laughing at me. I took down the listing and cracked the starter. Resealed. Anger. heh.
I've thought some about the 31 Jordan thing. Dude sent them to BGS. BGS wouldn't give 1 a 10. In one of his videos he says they he has all the grader notes where BGS states what they think is wrong with every card. I'd like to see the grader notes. I know BGS 10s are really tough. You would think that if PSA thinks they're all GEM MINT, BGS would like 1 of them. Not 3.2% of his PSA 10s were BGS 10s. I could extrapolate a lot of tinfoil hat theories? Like, what was the guys motivation for making these videos?
The original Star basketball cards were printed by a Philidelphia printing company. The printing company hat got busted was in Florida. They would have to go back to the original printing company and use the original equipment if they wanted to make perfect counterfeits.
https://kennerstartinglineup.blogspot.com/
If you watch the video they talk about the chain of custody a little bit. Original production materials can move around. The guy being interviewed says he has original production transparencies. That whole process can be recreated. There was probably more than one set of plates in the first place. Star would gotten the plates back from the printer most definitely.
I'm not telling you not to buy Jordan RCs. I'm just saying know what you're buying. Know what it is. If you're paying huge money for these cards, know the history. This stuff doesn't have the best history.
I was looking at Star cards last night. Some stuff I think is cool and would like. I'm just not going to pay those prices. Even the stuff that isn't Jordan is unreasonably expensive, to me. I'm being driven out of the hobby.
It's like, I have to pay 40 bucks for some card that was considered totally crappy when I was a kid, in any grade that would be collectible. It turns out a total turd is right around 40 bucks on eBay if it's a PSA 10. I could pay less for raw. But, because the graded stuff exists, I'd never be able to get money back out if I buy raw. The whole thing that I thought was cool about these markets as a kid was that you could put money in and get money out. Now, that seem to me to be very difficult except at the absolute top of the market, where the prices are such that I would never put that money in to a piece of card board. Even if the picture on it were cool. You don't want to be the guy getting stuck with the cold potato.
That is incorrect.
I feel the need to restate: PSA recently accepting them speaks volumes to me.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Why does it speak volumes?
One thing about this video that is pretty interesting to me is this. A few times in this video the older guy will say something, making a point. Then the younger guy will comment on the older guys statement, sounding like he didn't hear what the older guy said and slanting it as if to make the statement in to what the younger guy wanted to hear instead of what the older guy actually said. Then the older guy will just kinda give up and go along with what the younger guy is saying. Like, when the younger guy becomes the older guy a little way down the road, the message is going to be completely different.