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How much longer before gold outshines Rhodium ?

TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,748 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited August 2, 2023 2:04PM in Precious Metals


Rhodium was $25k. Now?
Palladium was $2500+
Platinum was even higher than gold, at one time.

I think all metals lose luster, except gold.

Comments

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Au's the metal of kings the other is just overpriced gutter. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,103 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not in our lifetime. Rhodium is a scarce industrial metal. The same cannot be said for gold.

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • element159element159 Posts: 493 ✭✭✭

    Rhodium is thinly traded so it will have bigger price swings. The buy/sell spread is interesting in that chart, btw: Silver has a spread of 10 cents, gold 1 dollar, and rhodium 1400 dollars per ounce.

    image
  • RobMRobM Posts: 524 ✭✭✭

    Rhodium got pummeled by the huge decrease in passenger vehicle production during the Covid pandemic. It went from years of annual deficit to significant surplus. Worlwide, there are 30-40 million fewer passenger vehicles than would have been produced absent all the disruptions. That's around 400,000 ounces of Rh that was not consumed, or almost half a year's typical supply of the metal. Selling fewer new vehicles during the past 3 years has also seen a higher % of BEVs being produced. A very recent bright spot for Rh and Pd.... Ford is focusing on introducing more hybrid vehicles.

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭✭

    EV's kill the white metals.

  • SilverPlatinumSilverPlatinum Posts: 205 ✭✭✭

    Rhodium would still regain some of it's glory back one day.......

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭✭

    The White Metals are in trouble as BEVs continue to steal market share. No other use for the group.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,263 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Aside from lacking infrastructure and dependence on rare earths from China, EV costs exceed their utility.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,748 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    Aside from lacking infrastructure and dependence on rare earths from China, EV costs exceed their utility.

    I agree that they're taking more energy to run than what we currently produce, but if we all do our part and turn off the air conditioning, unplug our phone chargers, work from home with the lights off, and eliminate street lights at night.... we can make it happen

    https://youtu.be/uWODczdgGDQ

  • HigashiyamaHigashiyama Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said “EV costs exceed their utility.” Since cost and utility can be challenging to calculate, it would be great if you could elaborate on this.

    In any case, it is certain that EV production will continue to increase dramatically, with significant implications for resource utilization, prices, etc.

    Higashiyama
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,263 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Compare the direct cost of purchasing an EV vs. a real car. It's not hard to calculate. When 69% of working families are living paycheck to paycheck, who's going to buy an EV that costs 10s of thousands of dollars more?

    Utility? Let's talk about utility.

    How long does it take to charge a vehicle when on a trip of any distance vs. filling the tank with gasoline?

    What's the range of a gas-powered vehicle vs. the range of an EV?

    What's the difference in performance during hot weather?

    What's the cost of a replacement battery and how long does the battery last?

    How many gas-powered vehicles are prone to self-combustion?

    It's all about lowering expectations and lowering our standard of living, because, well, just because. You figure it out.

    The mismanagement of our petroleum resources now is beyond stupid. China and India have no such illusions about what powers an economy, and they have no qualms about using oil & gas. Never mind their emissions and air quality.

    The greenies will blame the loss of purchasing power and decline in our standard of living on anything but their own agenda and the will die on their own petard as the petrodollar continues to fade away.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭✭

    @OPA said:
    Not in our lifetime. Rhodium is a scarce industrial metal. The same cannot be said for gold.

    Rhodium and the other White Metals are losing their #1 market, catalytic converters and related markets. As EVs increase, their demand collapses.

    I would be long copper and gold and short the white metals. When Putin is deposed, Russia will be dumping tens of billions of the white metals.

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GoldFinger1969 said:

    @OPA said:
    Not in our lifetime. Rhodium is a scarce industrial metal. The same cannot be said for gold.

    Rhodium and the other White Metals are losing their #1 market, catalytic converters and related markets. As EVs increase, their demand collapses.

    I would be long copper and gold and short the white metals. When Putin is deposed, Russia will be dumping tens of billions of the white metals.

    In recent years Rhodium has not been used to a great extent in automobile catalytic converters, due to the high cost of it compared to platinum and palladium (which work almost as well at lower cost).

    Rhodium is quite hard, and so it is best used when resistance to mechanical wear is needed in addition to being a catalytic and corrosion resistant. There are no moving parts in a catalytic converter and so there is no need for hard materials in them.

    Who knows how long Putin may last. He could remain in control longer than generally thought. Or not. His replacement might actually be worse.

  • RobMRobM Posts: 524 ✭✭✭

    Russia only produces around 6% of world's Rh. Rh is all about South Africa.

    An interesting thing about Rh bullion as an investment I have noticed recently... The transactions on eBay suggest premiums that would make Silver Eagles jealous. In case some don't know, there have been only 3 significant producers of minted Rh bullion products - Cohen Mint, Baird, and PAMP. Cohen went out of business a decade or more ago, and I am pretty certain that neither Baird or PAMP are currently making any Rh products. At the peak, the tiny 1g Cohen rounds sold for $800-900. At less than 1/6 the Rh highs, they still sell for $500. 1/10 oz Baird bars sell for at least $1K. Very little to no transactions on any larger bars. I would bet that at least 2/3 of the Rh bullion ever minted ended up at refineries during the most recent Rh boom. So there is far less Rh in bullion form than would be expected, maybe responsible for some of the premium. Otherwise, many investors are just sitting on Rh positions at a loss waiting for spot price improvement (which may never materialize).

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