@TomB said:
I realize this isn't in your question, but thought it might be included to avoid confusion about these. They aren't made by the states. Rather, they are made by a private company for any group or individual who sponsors their production for a given state as long as that state does not have any statutes that prohibit the use of Goldbacks as voluntary barter.
In other words, anyone can sponsor a series of Goldback notes for any state as long as the state doesn't legally prohibit their voluntary use in barter. You have to get in touch with the private company and have to be willing to put up about $400,000 of your own money so that they will buy the gold, design and produce the notes, and then make them available for purchase to be collected or used in commerce.
So they aren't produced under the authorization of states and they aren't produced at the request of states, but are instead produced at the request of groups or individuals in the name of states where the potential use is not legally prohibited.
So, are they scrip? I don't believe they are from my understanding of the word. Could they be tokens? In my opinion, they fall more closely into that definition. However, I would suspect that more folks would think of them as scrip than think of them as tokens.
If a sponsor puts up 400k do they get the all notes produced or do they share in the premium as the notes are sold?
Since there are multiple retailers, I assume they are sharing the premium.
If you made a private currency out of the kind of polymer (plastic) they use in Canada or Australia for banknotes, would they be "scrip" or "tokens"? The answer would be "Scrip". Because the difference between a "scrip" and a "token" is in its shape and form, rather than its composition. If it's thin, flexible, and fold-uppable, like paper, then it's "scrip". If it's hard, rigid, and trying to fold it up will destroy it and render it unusable, then it's a "token".
Goldbacks are no different to any other private currency in this regard. Their "gimmick" is they are made from gold foil, wrapped in plastic to increase durability in circulation, and this was done primarily in the hope that sympathetic state legislatures would indeed be persuaded to declare them to be legal tender, under Article1 Section 10 of the US Constitution. Of course, to do that, they'd have to go to court to prove that Goldback notes are legally "coins", not tokens or scrip. Which I think would be a very difficult case to win.
Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one. Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
They are actually very thin gold bar bullion since they are made of gold and their value is whatever their bullion value is which will fluctuate with the market price of gold. The weight of gold is shown (as multiples of 1/1000 Troy ounce) on the face of the note so the 1/1000 note has a current value of a little less than $2. There is no dollar denomination. There is only a gold weight just like any other gold bar.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
They are actually very thin gold bar bullion since they are made of gold and their value is whatever their bullion value is which will fluctuate with the market price of gold. The weight of gold is shown (as multiples of 1/1000 Troy ounce) on the face of the note so the 1/1000 note has a current value of a little less than $2. There is no dollar denomination. There is only a gold weight just like any other gold bar.
Except, unlike gold bars but like scrip/tokens, they are supposedly spendable at some places.
@PerryHall said:
They are actually very thin gold bar bullion since they are made of gold and their value is whatever their bullion value is which will fluctuate with the market price of gold. The weight of gold is shown (as multiples of 1/1000 Troy ounce) on the face of the note so the 1/1000 note has a current value of a little less than $2. There is no dollar denomination. There is only a gold weight just like any other gold bar.
Except, unlike gold bars but like scrip/tokens, they are supposedly spendable at some places.
I'll bet you could easily spend small PAMP Suisse bars like you could these, and probably at least in the same places.
@PerryHall said:
They are actually very thin gold bar bullion since they are made of gold and their value is whatever their bullion value is which will fluctuate with the market price of gold. The weight of gold is shown (as multiples of 1/1000 Troy ounce) on the face of the note so the 1/1000 note has a current value of a little less than $2. There is no dollar denomination. There is only a gold weight just like any other gold bar.
Except, unlike gold bars but like scrip/tokens, they are supposedly spendable at some places.
I'll bet you could easily spend small PAMP Suisse bars like you could these, and probably at least in the same places.
So you're saying that all bullion is scrip? I find that suggestion a little dubious.
I wouldn't bet on anyone taking your bars as cash.
@PerryHall said:
They are actually very thin gold bar bullion since they are made of gold and their value is whatever their bullion value is which will fluctuate with the market price of gold. The weight of gold is shown (as multiples of 1/1000 Troy ounce) on the face of the note so the 1/1000 note has a current value of a little less than $2. There is no dollar denomination. There is only a gold weight just like any other gold bar.
Except, unlike gold bars but like scrip/tokens, they are supposedly spendable at some places.
Not supposedly...you CAN spend them in certain places😎
@PerryHall said:
They are actually very thin gold bar bullion since they are made of gold and their value is whatever their bullion value is which will fluctuate with the market price of gold. The weight of gold is shown (as multiples of 1/1000 Troy ounce) on the face of the note so the 1/1000 note has a current value of a little less than $2. There is no dollar denomination. There is only a gold weight just like any other gold bar.
Except, unlike gold bars but like scrip/tokens, they are supposedly spendable at some places.
I'll bet you could easily spend small PAMP Suisse bars like you could these, and probably at least in the same places.
Don't think so...here is link for more info on Goldbacks
@PerryHall said:
They are actually very thin gold bar bullion since they are made of gold and their value is whatever their bullion value is which will fluctuate with the market price of gold. The weight of gold is shown (as multiples of 1/1000 Troy ounce) on the face of the note so the 1/1000 note has a current value of a little less than $2. There is no dollar denomination. There is only a gold weight just like any other gold bar.
Except, unlike gold bars but like scrip/tokens, they are supposedly spendable at some places.
I'll bet you could easily spend small PAMP Suisse bars like you could these, and probably at least in the same places.
Don't think so...here is link for more info on Goldbacks
“The Goldback solves a 2,600 year old problem in that gold can be spent in small, interchangeable increments.”
Goldbacks are not legal tender, but they are valid for barter, trade, discounts.
“Goldbacks are not a promise to pay in gold, they are the gold!”
So what's the difference between this and using 1 gram PAMP bars other than the denominations? Accepting either is accepting an in-kind payment in gold.
I know it's not a Goldback and it doesn't help to answer the OP's question but I found this searching the web and I thought it was pretty cool. I didn't know they also have done Silverbacks.
Interesting to see that the Silverback carries the subtitle "Limited Edition Collectible", while the Goldback says "Specie Legal Tender Instrument". 🤔
In any case, it's a fad, a gimmick, or any other name you want to use. Yes, it's interesting and fun and somewhat innovative in regard to the presentation, but there are people making money off this and it's not the people using or accepting them as "payment".
Although some people will undoubtedly take them seriously, I personally do not believe that the primary purpose of these is to emerge as a viable and ongoing form of payment. The purpose is to look pretty in a collection.
I might even get a few myself as collectibles, as examples of alternative money along the lines of Liberty Dollars or the many "local currencies" that have come and mostly gone.
@PerryHall said:
They are actually very thin gold bar bullion since they are made of gold and their value is whatever their bullion value is which will fluctuate with the market price of gold. The weight of gold is shown (as multiples of 1/1000 Troy ounce) on the face of the note so the 1/1000 note has a current value of a little less than $2. There is no dollar denomination. There is only a gold weight just like any other gold bar.
Except, unlike gold bars but like scrip/tokens, they are supposedly spendable at some places.
I'll bet you could easily spend small PAMP Suisse bars like you could these, and probably at least in the same places.
Don't think so...here is link for more info on Goldbacks
“The Goldback solves a 2,600 year old problem in that gold can be spent in small, interchangeable increments.”
Goldbacks are not legal tender, but they are valid for barter, trade, discounts.
“Goldbacks are not a promise to pay in gold, they are the gold!”
So what's the difference between this and using 1 gram PAMP bars other than the denominations? Accepting either is accepting an in-kind payment in gold.
The difference being that some retailers accept the Goldbacks and you only have a supposition that they would accept a pampb suisse bar. Since most retailers don't know what to do with an Ike $, I find that supposition to be doubtful.
@ifthevamzarockin said:
I know it's not a Goldback and it doesn't help to answer the OP's question but I found this searching the web and I thought it was pretty cool. I didn't know they also have done Silverbacks.
@ifthevamzarockin said:
I know it's not a Goldback and it doesn't help to answer the OP's question but I found this searching the web and I thought it was pretty cool. I didn't know they also have done Silverbacks.
This is what Vault Box should have done. Looking into the dragons, it was a limited edition run that was available only through a single distributor (bullionmax).
They are not cheap. I need to find one. I'm jonesing for a dragon. They are all $80+ on ebay. Most are much higher than that.
Well now
Here’s how I prefer to get small gold. 1/100 oz. $10 denomination and I won it at auction a couple years ago for…..
$7.50 free shipping. 1/1000 is a wee speck of gold. How do they sqarsh it sooo thin?
@PerryHall said:
They are actually very thin gold bar bullion since they are made of gold and their value is whatever their bullion value is which will fluctuate with the market price of gold. The weight of gold is shown (as multiples of 1/1000 Troy ounce) on the face of the note so the 1/1000 note has a current value of a little less than $2. There is no dollar denomination. There is only a gold weight just like any other gold bar.
Except, unlike gold bars but like scrip/tokens, they are supposedly spendable at some places.
I'll bet you could easily spend small PAMP Suisse bars like you could these, and probably at least in the same places.
Don't think so...here is link for more info on Goldbacks
“The Goldback solves a 2,600 year old problem in that gold can be spent in small, interchangeable increments.”
Goldbacks are not legal tender, but they are valid for barter, trade, discounts.
“Goldbacks are not a promise to pay in gold, they are the gold!”
So what's the difference between this and using 1 gram PAMP bars other than the denominations? Accepting either is accepting an in-kind payment in gold.
The difference being that some retailers ???????? the Goldbacks and you only have a supposition that they would accept a pampb suisse bar. Since most retailers don't know what to do with an Ike $, I find that supposition to be doubtful.
Retailers accept Goldbacks because they know they're gold and they want to accept gold as payment. With that mindset, they're likely fully aware of other commonly held formats of gold and want to encourage people to spend them there. The 1 and 2.5 grams PAMP bars are approximately 32 and 80 Goldbacks, respectively, so convenient denominations. It has nothing to do with whether these retailers know what an Ike dollar is.
@messydesk said:
So what's the difference between this and using 1 gram PAMP bars other than the denominations? Accepting either is accepting an in-kind payment in gold.
Well, goldbacks have a much higher markup. Go to the Goldback website linked to above, and right there in big bold font on the front page is the company's current exchange rate: 1 goldback (1/1000th of an ounce) equals US$4.05. That's US$4050/ounce you're paying for Goldback gold. The current gold price is around US$1955/oz, so that's over 200% premium above spot price. A half-gram round or ingot - the smallest piece of gold you can buy on Apmex - has a going price of about US$61.50 at the moment; that's US$3825/oz, yes it's a significant markup too, but still smaller than Goldback's markup.
For regular bullion, the premium goes down, the bigger the piece of gold you buy. But for goldbacks, that 200% premium remains across the entire denomination range. So, buying an ounce of Goldback gold (1000 goldbacks) will cost you the full US$4050, while a 1 ounce round will only cost you around US$2050.
In other words, only half of a goldback's value is residing in the actual gold it's made of. The rest is backed by faith in the Goldback system.
Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one. Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
I think there should have been a third poll option for "they're just another form of bullion". They are composed only of the metal itself. This is just overpriced bullion that will only have a niche market as a novelty imo, and/or be consumed by the "when the SHTF..." crowd who think these will be needed for barter when the apocalypse hits.
@PerryHall said:
They are actually very thin gold bar bullion since they are made of gold and their value is whatever their bullion value is which will fluctuate with the market price of gold. The weight of gold is shown (as multiples of 1/1000 Troy ounce) on the face of the note so the 1/1000 note has a current value of a little less than $2. There is no dollar denomination. There is only a gold weight just like any other gold bar.
Except, unlike gold bars but like scrip/tokens, they are supposedly spendable at some places.
I'll bet you could easily spend small PAMP Suisse bars like you could these, and probably at least in the same places.
Don't think so...here is link for more info on Goldbacks
“The Goldback solves a 2,600 year old problem in that gold can be spent in small, interchangeable increments.”
Goldbacks are not legal tender, but they are valid for barter, trade, discounts.
“Goldbacks are not a promise to pay in gold, they are the gold!”
So what's the difference between this and using 1 gram PAMP bars other than the denominations? Accepting either is accepting an in-kind payment in gold.
The difference being that some retailers ???????? the Goldbacks and you only have a supposition that they would accept a pampb suisse bar. Since most retailers don't know what to do with an Ike $, I find that supposition to be doubtful.
Retailers accept Goldbacks because they know they're gold and they want to accept gold as payment. With that mindset, they're likely fully aware of other commonly held formats of gold and want to encourage people to spend them there. The 1 and 2.5 grams PAMP bars are approximately 32 and 80 Goldbacks, respectively, so convenient denominations. It has nothing to do with whether these retailers know what an Ike dollar is.
Retailers are accepting goldbacks because someone is backing them.
Giving the number of fake gold bars out there, only a coin shop would likely accept them if the retailer is smart.
@telephoto1 said:
I think there should have been a third poll option for "they're just another form of bullion". They are composed only of the metal itself. This is just overpriced bullion that will only have a niche market as a novelty imo, and/or be consumed by the "when the SHTF..." crowd who think these will be needed for barter when the apocalypse hits.
Except that the fact that some retailers accept it as payment puts it in either the token or scrip category. If you read the poll, I said to take that as a given. (I'm trusting the source as I personally don't know any retailers since I'm in NY.) Yes, they are bullion. But so is an AGE. But an AGE is also a coin. So is a goldback a bullion token or a bullion scrip?
@telephoto1 said:
I think there should have been a third poll option for "they're just another form of bullion". They are composed only of the metal itself. This is just overpriced bullion that will only have a niche market as a novelty imo, and/or be consumed by the "when the SHTF..." crowd who think these will be needed for barter when the apocalypse hits.
Except that the fact that some retailers accept it as payment puts it in either the token or scrip category. If you read the poll, I said to take that as a given. (I'm trusting the source as I personally don't know any retailers since I'm in NY.) Yes, they are bullion. But so is an AGE. But an AGE is also a coin. So is a goldback a bullion token or a bullion scrip?
You are setting arbitrary boundaries by inferring that if something isn't a coin or note and accepted in trade then it must be a token or scrip. It's neither. It's just bullion used as a barter instrument. AGEs were monetized by the federal government and are legal tender items; Goldbacks weren't and aren't. The fact that some places accept these as "payment" (take them in barter, actually) does not make them scrip or tokens any more than other barter instruments like wampum etc. imo. Some places also accept 1 gram gold chips snapped from 25g sheets... those aren't tokens or scrip either.
Retailers accept Goldbacks because they know they're gold and they want to accept gold as payment. With that mindset, they're likely fully aware of other commonly held formats of gold and want to encourage people to spend them there. The 1 and 2.5 grams PAMP bars are approximately 32 and 80 Goldbacks, respectively, so convenient denominations. It has nothing to do with whether these retailers know what an Ike dollar is.
Retailers are accepting goldbacks because someone is backing them.
Giving the number of fake gold bars out there, only a coin shop would likely accept them if the retailer is smart.
"Hello, China? I'd like some fake Goldbacks, please."
Maybe I'm giving the typical Goldback retailer too much credit, but I'm thinking they're ready to deal with the possibility of fakes, be they Goldbacks or bars.
The difference being that some retailers ****** the Goldbacks and you only have a supposition that they would accept a pampb suisse bar. Since most retailers don't know what to do with an Ike $, I find that supposition to be doubtful.
@jmlanzaf you might want to edit your post. I edited it out of my quote, but I think you might have had a serious issue with autocorrect, or maybe not.
@telephoto1 said:
I think there should have been a third poll option for "they're just another form of bullion". They are composed only of the metal itself. This is just overpriced bullion that will only have a niche market as a novelty imo, and/or be consumed by the "when the SHTF..." crowd who think these will be needed for barter when the apocalypse hits.
Except that the fact that some retailers accept it as payment puts it in either the token or scrip category. If you read the poll, I said to take that as a given. (I'm trusting the source as I personally don't know any retailers since I'm in NY.) Yes, they are bullion. But so is an AGE. But an AGE is also a coin. So is a goldback a bullion token or a bullion scrip?
You are setting arbitrary boundaries by inferring that if something isn't a coin or note and accepted in trade then it must be a token or scrip. It's neither. It's just bullion used as a barter instrument. AGEs were monetized by the federal government and are legal tender items; Goldbacks weren't and aren't. The fact that some places accept these as "payment" (take them in barter, actually) does not make them scrip or tokens any more than other barter instruments like wampum etc. imo. Some places also accept 1 gram gold chips snapped from 25g sheets... those aren't tokens or scrip either.
Edit for clarity
Actually, you've got it backwards. I'm not suggesting anything about barter or other media of exchange. I have in no way suggested that other such media don't exist.
By definition, goldbacks meet the definition of a token or scrip. I'm just not sure which one to call it.
The difference being that some retailers ****** the Goldbacks and you only have a supposition that they would accept a pampb suisse bar. Since most retailers don't know what to do with an Ike $, I find that supposition to be doubtful.
@jmlanzaf you might want to edit your post. I edited it out of my quote, but I think you might have had a serious issue with autocorrect, or maybe not.
I thought they were just freaky retailers. I am not here to judge where others shop.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
The difference being that some retailers ****** the Goldbacks and you only have a supposition that they would accept a pampb suisse bar. Since most retailers don't know what to do with an Ike $, I find that supposition to be doubtful.
@jmlanzaf you might want to edit your post. I edited it out of my quote, but I think you might have had a serious issue with autocorrect, or maybe not.
I thought I already did. Hmmm.. what an odd substitution.
The difference being that some retailers ****** the Goldbacks and you only have a supposition that they would accept a pampb suisse bar. Since most retailers don't know what to do with an Ike $, I find that supposition to be doubtful.
@jmlanzaf you might want to edit your post. I edited it out of my quote, but I think you might have had a serious issue with autocorrect, or maybe not.
I thought they were just freaky retailers. I am not here to judge where others shop.
Freakin' At the Freakers' Ball (Dr. Hook & The Medicine Show).
scrip
noun
noun: scrip; plural noun: scrips; noun: land scrip; plural noun: land scrips
1.
a provisional certificate of money subscribed to a bank or company, entitling the holder to a formal certificate and dividends.
scrip certificates collectively.
an issue of additional shares to shareholders in proportion to the shares already held.
noun: scrip dividend; plural noun: scrip dividends; noun: scrip issue; plural noun: scrip issues
2.
NORTH AMERICAN
a certificate entitling the holder to acquire possession of certain portions of public land.
3.
HISTORICAL•NORTH AMERICAN
paper money in amounts of less than a dollar.
token
1a: a piece resembling a coin issued for use (as for fare on a bus) by a particular group on specified terms
b: a piece resembling a coin issued as money by some person or body other than a de jure government
c: a unit of a cryptocurrency
Bitcoin tokens
Edit to add (because for some reason it didn't post the first time):
Goldbacks aren't paper money nor a CD nor a piece resembling a coin... so I maintain they are neither scrip nor tokens but rather simply bullion.
Comments
Since there are multiple retailers, I assume they are sharing the premium.
If you made a private currency out of the kind of polymer (plastic) they use in Canada or Australia for banknotes, would they be "scrip" or "tokens"? The answer would be "Scrip". Because the difference between a "scrip" and a "token" is in its shape and form, rather than its composition. If it's thin, flexible, and fold-uppable, like paper, then it's "scrip". If it's hard, rigid, and trying to fold it up will destroy it and render it unusable, then it's a "token".
Goldbacks are no different to any other private currency in this regard. Their "gimmick" is they are made from gold foil, wrapped in plastic to increase durability in circulation, and this was done primarily in the hope that sympathetic state legislatures would indeed be persuaded to declare them to be legal tender, under Article1 Section 10 of the US Constitution. Of course, to do that, they'd have to go to court to prove that Goldback notes are legally "coins", not tokens or scrip. Which I think would be a very difficult case to win.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.
I just looked into what these are. I think they're pretty cool.
Thoughts on one day those getting the green light for subbing and grading?
They are actually very thin gold bar bullion since they are made of gold and their value is whatever their bullion value is which will fluctuate with the market price of gold. The weight of gold is shown (as multiples of 1/1000 Troy ounce) on the face of the note so the 1/1000 note has a current value of a little less than $2. There is no dollar denomination. There is only a gold weight just like any other gold bar.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
PMG appears to already grade them.
Except, unlike gold bars but like scrip/tokens, they are supposedly spendable at some places.
I'll bet you could easily spend small PAMP Suisse bars like you could these, and probably at least in the same places.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
So you're saying that all bullion is scrip? I find that suggestion a little dubious.
I wouldn't bet on anyone taking your bars as cash.
Not supposedly...you CAN spend them in certain places😎
Don't think so...here is link for more info on Goldbacks
https://www.goldback.com/
From that site:
“The Goldback solves a 2,600 year old problem in that gold can be spent in small, interchangeable increments.”
Goldbacks are not legal tender, but they are valid for barter, trade, discounts.
“Goldbacks are not a promise to pay in gold, they are the gold!”
So what's the difference between this and using 1 gram PAMP bars other than the denominations? Accepting either is accepting an in-kind payment in gold.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I know it's not a Goldback and it doesn't help to answer the OP's question but I found this searching the web and I thought it was pretty cool. I didn't know they also have done Silverbacks.
Interesting to see that the Silverback carries the subtitle "Limited Edition Collectible", while the Goldback says "Specie Legal Tender Instrument". 🤔
In any case, it's a fad, a gimmick, or any other name you want to use. Yes, it's interesting and fun and somewhat innovative in regard to the presentation, but there are people making money off this and it's not the people using or accepting them as "payment".
Although some people will undoubtedly take them seriously, I personally do not believe that the primary purpose of these is to emerge as a viable and ongoing form of payment. The purpose is to look pretty in a collection.
I might even get a few myself as collectibles, as examples of alternative money along the lines of Liberty Dollars or the many "local currencies" that have come and mostly gone.
The difference being that some retailers accept the Goldbacks and you only have a supposition that they would accept a pampb suisse bar. Since most retailers don't know what to do with an Ike $, I find that supposition to be doubtful.
Damn you! Now I want one of those, too.
This is what Vault Box should have done. Looking into the dragons, it was a limited edition run that was available only through a single distributor (bullionmax).
They are not cheap. I need to find one. I'm jonesing for a dragon. They are all $80+ on ebay. Most are much higher than that.
Well now
Here’s how I prefer to get small gold. 1/100 oz. $10 denomination and I won it at auction a couple years ago for…..
$7.50 free shipping. 1/1000 is a wee speck of gold. How do they sqarsh it sooo thin?
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Retailers accept Goldbacks because they know they're gold and they want to accept gold as payment. With that mindset, they're likely fully aware of other commonly held formats of gold and want to encourage people to spend them there. The 1 and 2.5 grams PAMP bars are approximately 32 and 80 Goldbacks, respectively, so convenient denominations. It has nothing to do with whether these retailers know what an Ike dollar is.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Well, goldbacks have a much higher markup. Go to the Goldback website linked to above, and right there in big bold font on the front page is the company's current exchange rate: 1 goldback (1/1000th of an ounce) equals US$4.05. That's US$4050/ounce you're paying for Goldback gold. The current gold price is around US$1955/oz, so that's over 200% premium above spot price. A half-gram round or ingot - the smallest piece of gold you can buy on Apmex - has a going price of about US$61.50 at the moment; that's US$3825/oz, yes it's a significant markup too, but still smaller than Goldback's markup.
For regular bullion, the premium goes down, the bigger the piece of gold you buy. But for goldbacks, that 200% premium remains across the entire denomination range. So, buying an ounce of Goldback gold (1000 goldbacks) will cost you the full US$4050, while a 1 ounce round will only cost you around US$2050.
In other words, only half of a goldback's value is residing in the actual gold it's made of. The rest is backed by faith in the Goldback system.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.
I think there should have been a third poll option for "they're just another form of bullion". They are composed only of the metal itself. This is just overpriced bullion that will only have a niche market as a novelty imo, and/or be consumed by the "when the SHTF..." crowd who think these will be needed for barter when the apocalypse hits.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Retailers are accepting goldbacks because someone is backing them.
Giving the number of fake gold bars out there, only a coin shop would likely accept them if the retailer is smart.
Except that the fact that some retailers accept it as payment puts it in either the token or scrip category. If you read the poll, I said to take that as a given. (I'm trusting the source as I personally don't know any retailers since I'm in NY.) Yes, they are bullion. But so is an AGE. But an AGE is also a coin. So is a goldback a bullion token or a bullion scrip?
You are setting arbitrary boundaries by inferring that if something isn't a coin or note and accepted in trade then it must be a token or scrip. It's neither. It's just bullion used as a barter instrument. AGEs were monetized by the federal government and are legal tender items; Goldbacks weren't and aren't. The fact that some places accept these as "payment" (take them in barter, actually) does not make them scrip or tokens any more than other barter instruments like wampum etc. imo. Some places also accept 1 gram gold chips snapped from 25g sheets... those aren't tokens or scrip either.
Edit for clarity
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Deleted. Sorry misread the comment
There are places in this country where chickens are bartered. Are they tokens or scrip? 🤔
Or nuggets or crisp?
Well, "crisp" and "scrip" are anagrams, so...
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
"Hello, China? I'd like some fake Goldbacks, please."
Maybe I'm giving the typical Goldback retailer too much credit, but I'm thinking they're ready to deal with the possibility of fakes, be they Goldbacks or bars.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I wanna swap 2000 pieces of Mc Nugget scrip for an ounce of gold. Any takers? I'll throw in some BBQ and honey mustard sauce.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I was curious about the answer... had to wade through some drama to get it, but I got it!
Carry-on people.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
@jmlanzaf you might want to edit your post. I edited it out of my quote, but I think you might have had a serious issue with autocorrect, or maybe not.
Philippians 4:4-7
Actually, you've got it backwards. I'm not suggesting anything about barter or other media of exchange. I have in no way suggested that other such media don't exist.
By definition, goldbacks meet the definition of a token or scrip. I'm just not sure which one to call it.
I thought they were just freaky retailers. I am not here to judge where others shop.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
I thought I already did. Hmmm.. what an odd substitution.
Token/ bullion Just a creative way to market an artistic item
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Philippians 4:4-7
scrip
noun
noun: scrip; plural noun: scrips; noun: land scrip; plural noun: land scrips
1.
a provisional certificate of money subscribed to a bank or company, entitling the holder to a formal certificate and dividends.
scrip certificates collectively.
an issue of additional shares to shareholders in proportion to the shares already held.
noun: scrip dividend; plural noun: scrip dividends; noun: scrip issue; plural noun: scrip issues
2.
NORTH AMERICAN
a certificate entitling the holder to acquire possession of certain portions of public land.
3.
HISTORICAL•NORTH AMERICAN
paper money in amounts of less than a dollar.
token
1a: a piece resembling a coin issued for use (as for fare on a bus) by a particular group on specified terms
b: a piece resembling a coin issued as money by some person or body other than a de jure government
c: a unit of a cryptocurrency
Bitcoin tokens
Edit to add (because for some reason it didn't post the first time):
Goldbacks aren't paper money nor a CD nor a piece resembling a coin... so I maintain they are neither scrip nor tokens but rather simply bullion.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I would lean toward Currency...