Greed is kicking the crap out of integrity
KatanaPilot
Posts: 16 ✭✭
It's really disappointing to see "allegedly" reputable dealers attempting to price gouge like THIS. 20 times actual market value....disturbing. But, I guess that's why it's called "allegedly" reputable. I see there's a lot of questionable history with this dealer.
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Doesn't mean they will get it. Dealers can ask for the moon if they want!
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Well, the title as written Greed is kicking the crap out of integrity shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone, should it? As for the coin and price, well, I generally don't do die varieties on modern coins and shake my head at a lot of the prices in this niche.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
It is a "Best Offer" also! If I read the PCGS site accuratley they have the cent at MS67+ with a pop of 6 and a price of $2150. Could be the guy doesn't even have the cent and is just trying to draw attention to his other auctions??
EDIT: Looks like my theory was shot down in ball of flames!
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Greed is kicking the crap out of integrity
Welcome to planet Earth.
I'd imagine that since "the guy" is Rick Snow (founder of Eagle Eye Rare Coin and the EERC sticker for Indian Head cents) that he actually has the coin and isn't using a fictitious listing to draw attention.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
@KatanaPilot For your information, this exact coin and listing has already been discussed on the Forum. Please have a little courtesy and take the time to do your research in the future.
It was discovered through very recent numismatic research that this variety is not only a DDO, but also an important overdate. As such, its true market value as an overdate has yet to be established or reflected in any price guide.
Your post clearly breaks Forum rule #2, by the way:
Posts must not contain libelous (accusatory, attacking) remarks concerning any individual, company, or other entity.
Despite the fact you've been here for a couple of years, you appear to be suffering from a serious case of DNS (Deadbeat Newbie Syndrome).
Just say NO if you don't like the price.
Oops! Did not know that (obviously.) I've only heard of Rick Snow and don't remember hearing anything abouT EERC. So my theory goes down in flames - Sorry.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
I will never understand why anyone would pay that much for something so minor as this or other minor varieties like the two feather Buffalo nickel and floating roof Lincoln. I am mystified at why collectors are willing to pay such ridiculous sums for such minor varieties, but it's their money and if they want to spend it on this that is their choice. Greed and the pump and dump way of doing business has been a problem in this hobby for ever, not likely to change anytime soon when there are so many uninformed buyers.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Thousands of years this has been going on in some variety. It’s got a special place in Latin.
Caveat Emptor. Thanks 🙏
OP.
A wee bit of research would have helped. Mr. Snow is a highly respected expert. Take a look and research his work. Turn a slight misunderstanding into a learning experience. Thanks 🙏
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
well if you had the coin would you not feel like it was worth a million bucks
Just a brief follow up - looking at the OP's other threads, it is clear that his intention is to stir things up rather than to constructively engage with the Forum. The MO is the same every time: post an inflammatory topic (e.g., "Ever wonder if "True View" images are intentionally "juiced up"?") then duck out and wait for others to react.
As @coinbuf noted in another thread:
Perhaps after one sold in MS67 last year on Ebay for $10k might make an honest dealer, just see what a Plus might add. Surely, Rick would consider an offer. lol
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
A coin is worth only what someone will pay for it.
A dealer can set any price he wants. I don't really see an issue here.
Dave
Where do I get the uniform?
Is the mustard stained shirt their uniform of choice?
Don’t sell to the sharks! The ones that pay you half of what your coins are worth and then sell them for over retail. There are still a few good guys out there! Do your due diligence and find them!!
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
As double error, I can see setting a high price for the error market. Likely it will sell for less than asking price. Cheers, RickO
But is it a double-error at all? If it's an overdate then that would be a die marriage or variety, is that correct? So, the DDO would be an error on top of a die marriage or variety. This brings up the broader question that I wonder if all these DDO coins are actually overdates and, if so, why should the new designation change their value?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I don’t see any misrepresentation of quality or fact. He can ask whatever he wants. Absent some evidence of fraud (none apparent here), I don’t really see the ethical issue.
I think the problem is the OP wants to buy it for $2000 and can't.
Auto correct strikes again.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Rick Snow @EagleEye is on the forums and may want to chime in.
This is an absurd post and is inappropriate. If you are into cents and do not know who Rick Snow is or Eagle eye rare coins, it’s your loss. Rick is a highly reputable dealer, a numismatic scholar, and a great guy to meet or spend any time with.
If you don’t like the price of a rarity that’s fine, but no excuse to bash an upstanding dealer like Mr Snow.
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
I’m almost afraid to ask, but where were you for the Vaultbox threads? 😈
Did someone say VaultBox?
What...do you have this forum set to ping your phone or something?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Not as dramatic in detail as the Jefferson nickel 1943/1942-P! But this major Jeff variety has been around much longer and can easily be had. Unless, of course, it can be found and you really want one with proof-like fields and a very early die-state strike/details!
Mr. Snow most likely knows his clientel and very likely 2 or 3 maybe more want this overdate variety. So what's he supposed to do to be fair? I wouldn't doubt there's a behind-the-scenes offer/bidding war going on and when it ends, we won't ever know what it sold for. And I for one wouldn't/couldn't divulge such information because I wouldn't own it to tell or say.
Oh. if you'd like to see the PL or SPL 43/42-P, there's a video in my sigline below.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I don’t consider two feather nickels minor varieties. They’re super obvious naked eye dramatic and just plain cool. On the other hand, the 43/2 DDO is barely noticeable, so I consider it a minor variety. But the words “overdate” and “doubled die” have a magical ability to confer star power and value to even a minor variety. I personally think it’s ridiculous, but the market is what it is.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Yes they are obvious and easy to see and certainly you are not alone as they bring high prices for low grade coins. But how is it any different than the floating roof, 22 no D, or the 3 leg buffalo nickel, all of these were the result of over polishing of the die which resulted in the removal of details. Basically, just poor-quality control, a carless employee, or a mint that has historically used dies past their useful life. Most of these coins were considered as inferior due to this and have only become popular due to enough promotion and or being included into albums or registry set so collectors are forced into filling that slot to be complete.
Don't get me wrong I fully understand that some collectors view this as you do, I'm just not one of them. If the engine of your next car is missing two pistons when you pick it up at the car dealer will that make it more or less valuable. It is just odd to me that collectors seek imperfection. Of course I don't understand the desire to collect low ball coins either, I guess there is plenty about collectors that I may never understand.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Wow! I've been accused of using bad analogies but you have me beat buy a mile.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It's a little extreme. The better example might be a car with a color variant paint job. But it is at least a little interesting the degree to which people impute added value to "when things go wrong". He's not wrong that people are paying huge premiums for examples of poor quality control.
As the saying goes a fool and their money will soon go there separate ways. If the coin is worth $40,000 then I don't see the harm. However, if someone with too much money were to buy this they would truly be buried with it. No offense to the seller but what is the coin really worth?
I know I have a couple of Morgan's I wouldn't part with at just about any price. The difference is that I don't advertise them for sale.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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This thread is actually going a lot better than I thought it would.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Serious question: How many grand does the CAC sticker add?
To many coin collectors here, the CAC sticker is priceless.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
From my perspective regardless who the seller is it’s not a good look listing the coin at $42k hoping a whale lands.
It reminds me of the Mastercard ads of the late 1990s (“Some things are priceless, for every thing else there is Master Card). 🤣
I'm not sure if greed or integrity grease the wheels of commerce. Looks like a waste of billboard space, to me.
Edit to add: I don't mean the coin, or link; I mean the thread.
How do we know our isn't worth that? Rick Snow is kind of the King of Cent varieties, isn't he?
If a 67 sold for $10k, a top pop 67+ CAC could be in the $40k range.
We’re in the same camp. The worse the coin is, the more they’ll pay, and somebody apparently is very proud to have the worst “normal” coin! As we agree, we will never understand that.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
At least Brent Pogue and I have the same affliction
Admittedly, you’re in GREAT company, but I still don’t understand it.
On the other hand, there’s a line of people from NY to California who don’t understand several of my numismatic collecting habits either!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I think part of it is just having fun.
Admittedly people have fun in different ways
Just say it .
Good vs Evil.
There I said it for you, and with integrity.
How much was this Lincoln overdate in 67+ worth before the designation change on the holder? Was this a 40k coin? This isn’t my series, but it seems like this was a few hundred dollar variety. PCGS price guide on this coin right now is $2,150. If I made that full price guide offer on the auction would I be unreasonable?
There is a bit of deceit in the description because it talks about being the finest, but there is a ms68 example in the pop report, and he describes it as prooflike but pcgs didn’t attribute that on the holder.
Respectfully, Rick Snow is arguably the higher authority than PCGS on this.
"Unreasonable" is in the eye of the beholder. Is 3x, 5x or 10x guide for a toned example of a coin "unreasonable "? YMMV
Posts must not contain libelous (accusatory, attacking) remarks concerning any individual, company, or other entity.