1960P Large Date-die clash? (Title edit-more photos)
Fraz
Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
I offered to post this for a friend (sure, you think). Is this a die clash? Is it common? He calls it that; rightly, I don’t know.
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Without a picture we don't know either
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Crap, too busy. Thanks, I ll change my icon to default.
Not “ENTS”
“CEN”
Looks like a sandwich coin, where two coins were squeezed together and the letters of the other coin were pressed into this one.
The E appears to be reversed to facing the C... That would not happen, this looks like a fake coin. Cheers, RickO
Looks more like the TES in STATES, in reverse, followed by bits of the OF AMERICA as you look to the right along the rim.
Vise job.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Backwards, incuse, and on the highpoint of the design and rim. Not a clash.
If you do a vice job that is exactly what it might look like.
Thanks ya’ll.
He says that it is not incuse.
Why, you are right. States is on the wrong end of the coin, would not a clash appear at his head?
I will leave him to believe his research. I fly the Swiss flag here. I hate to be a dead messenger.
Edit: I am wrong about that.
R> @Fraz said:
[ would not a clash appear at his head? ]
Clashes occur in the fields of the dies where the dies would hit surface to surface - not void to void. Of course there may be rare exception to the rule that are always in numismatics.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Bet you it is incuse.
Unless I am wrong, lettering from a clashed die (this design, anyway) as well as lettering from a vice job would both be incuse.
So if this coin has the extra lettering in relief (which I don't believe it does) then it's something else altogether.
The clashing overlay doesn't line up (but somebodey made it close) - and like previously stated - the clash would be on/in the fields.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
@CaptHenway wagers
Ooh, reckless gambler here. What would I have to wager and how could we settle it, with jocularity?
I would be proud to make a bet and even lose to you, Captain.
(I would be disillusioned if he did not know incuse from raised.)
Is this a reliable source of numismstic information? You guys are enough reference for my needs.
The article is in error-ref.com ThE Mysterious 1960 Small Date Lincoln cent
I pursue this further, please forgive me. (I won’t do it again)
Edit: I may have violated copyright, pictures are protected.
Notice how the clashing in the article you referenced is predominantly in the fields?
See how the lettering on your OP coin is only high on the devices and high on the rim? That's a pretty good tip off that it's the result of a vice/sandwhich job, as others have mentioned:
The lettering on a die clash and a vice job would both be incuse (unless the lettering on the original coin is incuse, which is not the case on a Lincoln Memorial cent), so it would seem your friend must be mistaken. Since you're not sure that he can correctly identify a die clash, I don't see why you'd be disillusioned or surprised to find that he doesn't know incuse from raised.
Thanks @Ike
He provides these pics of the coin, keep in mind that the article is about small date and this cent is a large date. So, that fact may further complicate the evaluation even if it is raised relief.
This is you all teaching me, not my disagreement. I so appreciate your replies.
You're welcome, @Fraz.
Images of incuse features can easily play tricks on the eyes and look like they are raised. However, I've circled one spot where you can clearly see that the edge of the rim was smashed down where the letter from another coin was squeezed into it.
I can’t understand how the rim remains intact, though. Would not being tilted in the collar cause that? Did the viser make extra efforts to put (corresponding?) impressions outside the rim.
Just imagine taking 2 coins, putting them in the vise slightly askew, and squeezing them together. Wherever they hit each other they will make an impression.
Thanks. He’s gonna have to put it under the eyes of some authority to be convinced. Thank you all again.
It's impossible for it to be a die clash for the reasons stated. If he still thinks he's got something then he needs another theory (different error/variety).
Thanks a million times! This is all. If he sends it to a TPS I will post what I learn.
It’s not a PB&J sandwich
It’s a PMD sandwich
Thanks for the double tap, friend. I had put it down. No bet, huh?