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Going to sell 10K Oz. of silver and 320 Oz of gold.

Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 704 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited July 21, 2023 2:40AM in Precious Metals

I have to cash out my gold and silver held in a pension plan, I can't apparently hold in a roll over IRA; not really worried about that I will put it in to index mutual funds. It is about $950K which has me a little worried. Meth/crack heads will kill you over $20. I contacted APMEX and Kitco and the both said they would send someone out. OK, sounds reasonable but I was thinking of hiring through the local union, off duty police officers for the trade off. It is a substantial physical holding so it is not like I can just send it in the mail but the gold (320 oz) could be readily tossed in a bag and run off with. I generally am not paranoid but what would you do?

Comments

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd sell the gutter and keep the gold. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,034 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 21, 2023 4:37AM

    eligible IRAs (pension) do not allow you to hold the metal. is it a "self pension" plan? If so, there is no time limit on cashing out. Why not a little at a time to private buyers. Although convenient, you will take a haircut selling to a reseller.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,209 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sell it on the BST for best offer. ;)

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd sell some of it the way that derryb and PerryHall both suggest. You could also sell a portion of it to Apmex by making an appointment and taking a trip by car to OKC.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,490 ✭✭✭✭✭

    First off get a top notch accounting firm that deals in IRAs and such. The gold should not be in your possession as stated above. So, now comes the tax man and capital gains. Get CPA'ed up.
    bob :)
    I would personally carry that to the vendor unless the drive is too long. Is there not a big dealer in your location? Might consider that even if you have to do it in batches.

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The gold should not be in your possession as stated above

    There's really no good reason to have gold in an IRA. Utilizing a CPA is a good idea in general, but I'm not sure what a CPA can do for you at this point, that you can't do for yourself.

    If you have good records and documentation, you can manage the tax consequences yourself by balancing gains vs. any losses in your holdings.

    If you really have to sell it all at once, I'd opt for shopping it around to the major dealers in a package deal, such as you've already started to do.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 704 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 21, 2023 9:08AM

    @blitzdude said:

    @Clackamas1 said:

    @blitzdude said:
    I'd sell the gutter and keep the gold. RGDS!

    I have to sell it all. My name is not Biden.

    Seems strange to me that you would be in possession of physical metal in your IRA in the first place. Typically, this would be held by a custodian. They would be the ones to deal with the transaction, not you and some "crackhead" conducting a physical transaction. Sounds like make believe land to me.

    PS: not sure what President Biden has to do with it?

    RGDS!

    It is a pension plan right now and you can own anything. When I retire the plan I have to convert it to an IRA and you are correct in the IRA you basically can't hold the physical. In a pension plan however you are allowed any type of asset. The pension, since I own the company is a defined benefit plan and our actuaries and accountants basically tell me what vehicles I can use and physical assets like metals and homes are allowed. It is when you terminate the plan when you run into the issues. The Biden thing was a joke.

  • tyler267tyler267 Posts: 1,233 ✭✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 said:

    @blitzdude said:

    @Clackamas1 said:

    @blitzdude said:
    I'd sell the gutter and keep the gold. RGDS!

    I have to sell it all. My name is not Biden.

    Seems strange to me that you would be in possession of physical metal in your IRA in the first place. Typically, this would be held by a custodian. They would be the ones to deal with the transaction, not you and some "crackhead" conducting a physical transaction. Sounds like make believe land to me.

    PS: not sure what President Biden has to do with it?

    RGDS!

    It is a pension plan right now and you can own anything. When I retire the plan I have to convert it to an IRA and you are correct in the IRA you basically can't hold the physical. In a pension plan however you are allowed any type of asset. The pension, since I own the company is a defined benefit plan and our actuaries and accountants basically tell me what vehicles I can use and physical assets like metals and homes are allowed. It is when you terminate the plan when you run into the issues. The Biden thing was a joke.

    I'd get a second opinion from a qualified CPA. There could be more to this than whether the gain on sale is subject to capital gain tax.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is a considerable amount of metals to sell. Profit wise, you will do better selling in small quantities to buyers. The large groups will likely just give you melt. Your choice of course. Cheers, RickO

  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 704 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tyler267 said:

    @Clackamas1 said:

    @blitzdude said:

    @Clackamas1 said:

    @blitzdude said:
    I'd sell the gutter and keep the gold. RGDS!

    I have to sell it all. My name is not Biden.

    Seems strange to me that you would be in possession of physical metal in your IRA in the first place. Typically, this would be held by a custodian. They would be the ones to deal with the transaction, not you and some "crackhead" conducting a physical transaction. Sounds like make believe land to me.

    PS: not sure what President Biden has to do with it?

    RGDS!

    It is a pension plan right now and you can own anything. When I retire the plan I have to convert it to an IRA and you are correct in the IRA you basically can't hold the physical. In a pension plan however you are allowed any type of asset. The pension, since I own the company is a defined benefit plan and our actuaries and accountants basically tell me what vehicles I can use and physical assets like metals and homes are allowed. It is when you terminate the plan when you run into the issues. The Biden thing was a joke.

    I'd get a second opinion from a qualified CPA. There could be more to this than whether the gain on sale is subject to capital gain tax.

    We have an actuary, law firm and a CPA firm. We are good on advice. I do agree with you though in that you don't do this without professional help. So many business owners cheap out on professional help and that is the wrong move. There is a profession for all of the above and for good reason.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,760 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know a guy who can handle the deal. I'm former infantry and can pack. Want me to hook you guys up ?

  • OnlyGoldIsMoneyOnlyGoldIsMoney Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 704 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OnlyGoldIsMoney said:
    Will a sale to Apmex or Kitco result in a Form 1099 for 2023?

    It should not matter. It is in a pension plan asset and as long as the checks are back to a pension account - it is a zero. Not even reportable - as long as it stays in the pension plan.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,034 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • tcollectstcollects Posts: 737 ✭✭✭✭

    if you're in Oregon, I would talk to Rodney at AJPM downtown Portland, see if they're paying about the same as AMPEX or Kitco

  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,578 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Id take it to one of the big firms that can handle that amount, get cashiers check or however payment in hand, and go

  • skier07skier07 Posts: 3,608 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Have you thought about Brinks? Stacks uses them on big orders.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,512 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This would have been resolved by now if the OP had just bought ETFs.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2023 5:52AM

    @cohodk said:
    This would have been resolved by now if the OP had just bought ETFs.

    Yeah, but then this thread wouldn’t exist. Let’s play paper. What we need is a stock market trading platform forum.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,034 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2023 6:47AM

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:

    @cohodk said:
    This would have been resolved by now if the OP had just bought ETFs.

    Yeah, but then this thread wouldn’t exist. Let’s play paper. What we need is a stock market trading platform forum.

    and one who for those who come here because they hate PMs and those that buy them. But then again every forum has those that are there for reasons other than the purpose of that forum.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,034 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ADG said:
    Given how important this is, I think I'd solicit random advice from people I don't know on a public forum.

    Random advice, from people who have actual experience on such matters is precisely what the OP is asking for. They are the professionals when it comes to the questions asked.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • MartinMartin Posts: 808 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 congrats for running a successful business and stocking away nice retirement account

    Martin

  • skier07skier07 Posts: 3,608 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    before you hit the road with a big load be fully aware of how asset confiscation/forfeiture works. Hint: it don't work in your favor.

    +1

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,512 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:

    @cohodk said:
    This would have been resolved by now if the OP had just bought ETFs.

    Yeah, but then this thread wouldn’t exist. Let’s play paper. What we need is a stock market trading platform forum.

    and one who for those who come here because they hate PMs and those that buy them. But then again every forum has those that are there for reasons other than the purpose of that forum.

    Yes. No place for those who hate.

    Some folk like to do things the hard way. Others like to be more efficient. That's what makes the world go round.

    I'll be interested in the OPs experiences in this liquidation. Good luck to you

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • skier07skier07 Posts: 3,608 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I live in a California county with 3 million people and had a jewelry store friend who was murdered and his wife was shot in the head in a botched robbery so I might be a little jaded but my primary concern would be personal safety. I would be perfectly okay with a little less money but a SAFE and easy transaction.

  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 704 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2023 1:35PM

    @cohodk said:
    This would have been resolved by now if the OP had just bought ETFs.

    Yeah it is kind of hard to buy a loaf of bread with a piece of an etf.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,034 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 said:

    @cohodk said:
    This would have been resolved by now if the OP had just bought ETFs.

    Yeah it is kind of hard to buy a loaf of bread with a piece of an etf.

    but you can always trade the etf for a promise for a loaf of bread. LOL

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 704 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @Clackamas1 said:

    @cohodk said:
    This would have been resolved by now if the OP had just bought ETFs.

    Yeah it is kind of hard to buy a loaf of bread with a piece of an etf.

    but you can always trade the etf for a promise for a loaf of bread. LOL

    I double pinky swear I will give it to you.

  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 704 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2023 2:10AM

    @skier07 said:
    I live in a California county with 3 million people and had a jewelry store friend who was murdered and his wife was shot in the head in a botched robbery so I might be a little jaded but my primary concern would be personal safety. I would be perfectly okay with a little less money but a SAFE and easy transaction.

    My lord --- that is horrific. I arranged 3 retired police officers (friends of mine) to be onsite plus me. They know what to do. If things go sideways it is not worth anyone's life. it will be fine. I sincerely hate that I have to actually think about this, back in the day there was almost zero crime. It there was a crime it was usually me or my friends shoulder tapping for beer.

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