Long before AI is used to grade coins…
MrEureka
Posts: 24,323 ✭✭✭✭✭
AI will be used to catalog coin auctions. It will speed turnaround times, enhance 90% of all catalog descriptions, bring down costs, and eliminate the shortage of professional auction catalogers.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
3
Comments
That’s a good thing !
Your thoughts on generative AI grading ….is it possible?
That’s what we all want to know ?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Andy, I think you are right in many ways. I’ve been of the opinion for a long time that in many auction sales, the image of the coin and no description would realize about the same price give or take as a full page printed auction catalog description. Yes, the descriptions are entertaining and helpful to many, but in the areas I deal in (and many that you do as well) the buyers are quite educated.
I am curious to see the future of this, but one of the costs associated with auctions is cataloguing and printing. I think we are closer to the day of that being not as necessary as we have ever been for many items.
For AI coin grading they need a scientific formula to grade coins.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
A description written by AI will have little value. It won't be able to convey anything not already in existing "stock" notes about a given coin or obvious in a photograph.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Great collections doesn’t use descriptions for most items (other than basic date & mint mark etc info), and I’d argue to say that their auctions are very successful with record prices regularly.
Perhaps the cataloguers aren’t necessary in the first place? Honestly I don’t feel the need to read a novel, or get a lecture to buy a coin. Show me the coin, I’ll set my bid.
There are catalogues with descriptions, auctions - some with descriptions, some without. Photographs usually. However, in the long run, the coin itself is the deciding factor. Cheers, RickO
For a potential bidder who knows exactly what he’s looking at, descriptions don’t matter much. For someone less familiar with the coin, a minimal description might not be enough to catch his attention, attract a bid, and maybe set him on a new path. So yes, I think descriptions matter. Anyway, if a computer is doing the bulk of the cataloging and there’s no hard copy of the catalog to mail, there’s no good excuse to not include potentially useful information.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume that everyone viewing the catalog knows everything that has already been written about the coin in other catalogs. And yes, you can gather most of that info on the internet , but it’s way easier and faster if the (possibly non-human) cataloger has already done your homework for you.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Is there currently a shortage of auction catalogers?
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I think actually there may actually be. I have noticed that some areas of coins are being cataloged “questionably”. Cataloguers with understanding of the level necessary to describe these coins are often tempted by higher paying positions available in the coin world today. I have personally turned down in the past jobs offered because pay is not on the scale that an expert or dealer could do. It’s a tough business to get into at that level, but cost of full time employment for the person they need may be cost ineffective. Andy is on to something here in all honesty, but I personally would rather humans did this with passion and understanding. AI, while it’s going to be there, should not be entered into areas where specific understanding needs to be with regards to auctions, descriptions etc. just read a JK catalogued coin and that is enough to understand the issue.
Cataloguing coins today is not near an entry level job. It requires a known name and qualifiers for the top level stuff. For example, would you trust a first day cataloguer, either AI or an entry level, to catalog your coins for auction sale? I wouldn’t.
I am currently writing an article for a Numismatic Publication as I have many times in the past.
I also have about 2500 nature photos being marketed on the internet.
My guess is that the AI will be stealing content from me, and all other creators and publishers
@MrEureka... You are totally correct. Many of us tend to look at coins with an experienced eye, and then, perhaps, critique the description. For the less experienced, the description would help to put the product in perspective, giving some detail the viewer is/was not familiar with.
Cheers, RickO
For example, this auction lot description took 5 seconds:
uction Catalog Description: Smithsonian's 1849 Double Eagle PCGS PR 62
Lot Number: [To be assigned]
Up for bidding in this exclusive auction event is a numismatic treasure of unparalleled historical significance and numismatic rarity: the legendary 1849 Double Eagle, certified by PCGS with an esteemed PR 62 grade. This immaculate specimen, now consigned from the esteemed Smithsonian collection, presents a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for discerning collectors and enthusiasts to own a piece of American numismatic history that stands as a true testament to the nation's gold rush era.
Obverse Description:
The obverse of this exquisite 1849 Double Eagle bears a commanding portrayal of Liberty, her majestic figure exuding an aura of strength and hope. Adorned in a headdress inscribed with the word "LIBERTY," she gazes resolutely towards the rising sun on the eastern horizon. The intricate details of her hair and the fine drapery of her gown display the craftsmanship of the skilled engravers from the early minting era.
Reverse Description:
On the reverse side, the design proudly showcases the iconic American eagle with its wings spread wide, a symbol of the nation's soaring ambition. Clutching an olive branch in one talon and arrows in the other, the eagle exemplifies peace and preparedness. The words "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" encircle the majestic bird, reinforcing its symbolic significance to the nation's young democracy.
Condition:
This particular 1849 Double Eagle is exceptional in both its preservation and overall eye appeal. Graded PR 62 by PCGS, the coin's proof-like surfaces exhibit a captivating luster that gracefully accentuates the detailed design elements. With only minor imperfections, the coin has been skillfully preserved, allowing collectors the opportunity to cherish its beauty and historical significance for generations to come.
Historical Significance:
As the first year of the Liberty Head design for the Double Eagle series and a product of the California Gold Rush, the 1849 Double Eagle carries immense historical significance. Struck in a time of great upheaval and opportunity, this coin represents the aspirations and dreams of countless individuals who journeyed westward in search of fortune and a better life during the mid-19th century.
Provenance:
Having once resided within the hallowed halls of the Smithsonian, this 1849 Double Eagle has a distinguished provenance that adds to its allure and collectible value. Now, in a rare turn of events, this numismatic masterpiece is being offered to private collectors and institutions, affording a chance to acquire an artifact that has been celebrated for its rarity and historical context.
Conclusion:
The 1849 Double Eagle, PCGS certified PR 62, is a testament to the ingenuity and spirit of early American numismatics. Embodying the dreams and ambitions of an era, this coin stands as an enduring tribute to the rich history of the United States. As a rare opportunity to acquire a piece from the esteemed Smithsonian collection, this auction represents an occasion of tremendous significance for serious numismatists and historians alike.
Take your place in history by participating in this monumental auction, and be prepared to secure an extraordinary artifact that will surely become the centerpiece of any esteemed collection. Don't miss this chance to own the legendary 1849 Double Eagle, a symbol of America's journey towards a golden future. Place your bids and secure your place in numismatic lore.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
So would it be fair that AI could create copywrite infringement issues?
Would various Auction Houses have their own AI in an effort to make a straight face argument that their AI is proprietary?
Seems there is a can of worms waiting to be opened.
Sadly, I am unable to buy into the proposition that AI will reduce transaction costs.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
When I asked about a more pedestrian coin:
ChatGPT
Auction Catalog Description: 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent PCGS MS67RD
Lot Number: [To be assigned]
Welcome esteemed collectors and enthusiasts to a truly exceptional offering in our prestigious auction: the illustrious 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent, certified by PCGS with an impeccable MS67RD grade. This coin is a paragon of rarity, historical significance, and numismatic excellence, making it an absolute pinnacle for any discerning collector seeking to elevate their collection to the highest echelons of numismatic achievement.
Obverse Description:
The obverse of this remarkable 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent showcases the iconic portrait of Abraham Lincoln, the revered 16th President of the United States. Designed by renowned sculptor Victor David Brenner (VDB), this design features an exceptionally detailed bust of Lincoln, his gaze dignified and contemplative. The coin's rim is graced by thirteen stars, representing the original thirteen colonies, adding an elegant touch to the overall design.
Reverse Description:
On the reverse side, the coin presents two symbolic wheat ears flanking the inscription "ONE CENT." This "wheat cent" design, also attributed to Victor David Brenner, has become an iconic representation of American numismatics and remains an enduring symbol of the nation's agricultural heritage.
Condition:
Graded MS67RD by the prestigious Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS), this 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent is a true testament to its remarkable state of preservation. The coin's striking red coloration (RD) is a testament to its original mint luster, with the red hue complementing the sharp details of the design to perfection. The pristine surfaces, virtually devoid of any blemishes, underscore the coin's impeccable quality and rarity, making it one of the finest examples known to exist.
Historical Significance:
The 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent holds an extraordinary place in American numismatic lore, as it marks the inaugural year of the Lincoln Cent series and bears the initials "VDB" of its talented designer, Victor David Brenner. Initially, the coin's release encountered a public outcry regarding the prominent placement of Brenner's initials on the reverse, leading to a subsequent modification. Today, the 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent is cherished not only for its historical significance but also for its undeniable beauty and collectible allure.
Provenance:
This MS67RD 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent's prestigious pedigree and outstanding provenance further enhance its desirability. From its origin at the esteemed San Francisco Mint in 1909 to its current encapsulation by PCGS, this coin's journey through time has been one of meticulous preservation and care, preserving its remarkable quality for future generations to admire and appreciate.
Conclusion:
The opportunity to acquire a 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent in the astounding MS67RD grade is a truly momentous event for serious collectors and connoisseurs of American numismatics. As a coin that unites historical significance, numismatic excellence, and rarity in one resplendent package, this 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent stands as an undeniable highlight of this auction.
Prepare to be captivated by the allure of this prized centennial treasure as it crosses the auction block, and seize the chance to secure a numismatic masterpiece that will undoubtedly be the envy of many collectors. Take your place among the fortunate few who can call such a superlative specimen their own. Place your bids with confidence and participate in this unparalleled opportunity to own the 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent PCGS MS67RD, a true numismatic marvel.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
While the above two descriptions are hardly sufficient, we're still very early in the game. Give it time.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Imagine a home with a television but no books. Happily for me, I've got both. Usually for me, a picture carries about 80% of the weight of an auction buying decision. (I buy from Great Collections, so there ya go.... and I buy off eBay, and about 20% of what I read there is suspect or downright wrong).
But there are times where the descriptive text means a LOT to me, even if it's just to adjust my mind to the picture: "this coin has more luster than I can capture in the picture," or "coin is attractive in hand but there's a hit on the reeding." That helps - lots.
And then there are times when the reading is the end in and of itself, like this Stacks listing for an uber-rare 1894-S dime (inspired by a recent post on another forum):
Whether AI-written coin descriptions will ever help... hmm... it might quickly aggregate information that might otherwise be too time-consuming to gather, like provenance / auction history for a specific slab #. But I can't see value in reading: "If I, as the AI, had hands, then I would declare that this coin looks lovely in hand."
New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set
Some coins will benefit from some basic info. For example, "this type was only issued in three years, with this being by far the rarest coin of the type". (Maybe we all know this stuff for US coins, but what if you're looking at lot descriptions for 18th century European coins?) Or for Fugio Cents and Continental Dollars, some basic historical background, explaining what the coins are and why bidders should want them. (Yes, @Regulated, that was your "Bat Signal".)
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Priority is on an AI tool for coin pricing IMO.
Pricing is all over the place and not kept up to date, coin auctions ebay sales, GC etc. Make it happen..... somebody please.
Can't happen because the data is not standardized and filled with errors. Would be nice though. For coins that don't trade often this is made even more difficult given variance among A B and C coins as well as CAC or QA designations. Like sometimes in coinfacts there is an outlier and you click on it and it is exceptional, or awful, or a VAM.
http://ProofCollection.Net
The only description of value AI can't write which is notes like 'scratch is on holder, not on coin' or 'slab has chip Missing' or 'luster is nicer than Photo shows'
http://ProofCollection.Net
Assisted consignments will be there. AI could almost instantly bring up histories for specific coins, recent very similar sales, registry set vacancies in grade, population, and price point, active searches on proposed consignment items, etc. A consignor can be better informed whether there would likely be competitive bidding on his coins, with predictive bidding behavior and reliability of bidder availability and funding. Correlations with the presence of coins in recent inventories and auction appearances (stale inventory aura) will also be a snap.
I really like the human auction descriptions. They prove to be super valuable in research.