@Nulte said:
dont forget the australian six pence or the ones from i think colombia, and there ARE others as well,-i looked already lol
Well, the Australian sixpences are considerably heavier than 1.88 grams; at 2.83 grams, they aren't much lighter than a regular copper penny, and heavier than a dime. Besides, American mints stopped making Australian coins at the end of WWII. A postulated silver blank would have had to have been floating around the mint for at least five years before ending up getting struck, which seems to be an additional event of low probability we are adding to the chain of improbable events.
The main reason we are discounting your hypothesis that it is silver, is Occam's Razor.
Your hypothesis is that a silver planchet slipped into the penny planchet stream and was struck into a "silver penny"(something that is incredibly improbable, but yes it can happen). Then that same silver penny somehow became copper-coloured. Again, not impossible, but highly improbable.
The alternative hypothesis we are postulating is that it is a normal copper cent that has become damaged, in such a way as to lose a considerable amount of weight. Acid damage is one easy way this can occur.
So, we have to choose between one moderately low probability event, or several very low probability events all happening sequentially. Occam's Razor says that without additional information to inform your choice, one should choose the option with fewer improbable events. Here, the "acid damage" answer is so overwhelmingly more likely, that we are assuming that it is true. It will take considerably stronger evidence to convince us otherwise.
Now, for this next question:
@Nulte said:
will acid treatment change the reading on my metal detector?
Most metal detector discriminators work on eddy current induction. The response of an acid-treated copper coin should indeed be the same as a normal copper coin, and different to a damaged silver coin, and this requires further investigation. But it is not, in itself, conclusive evidence of its composition.
Assuming you don't have the budget (or science lab connections) to send it off for x-ray analysis, there is a simple test you can do, involving eddy current induction. If you have a few rare earth supermagnets at hand, set them up side by side to make a magnet slide (look up "coin magnetic slide" on YouTube for examples of this in action) and compare the following coins:
a silver dime
a silver penny-sized coin weighing the same as the target coin (if you don't have any foreign silver coins that fit the bill, you might need to get a "junk silver" dime and file it down to the correct weight)
a normal copper penny
a normal copper coin weighing the same as the target coin (again, you might need to file down a normal cent)
your target coin.
What should happen: the silver coins will slide down the magnet slope slowly, as the magnets will induce eddy current braking. The copper coins will not slow down anywhere near as much, as the copper eddy current signal is much lower. If your target coin behaves like the silver coins, and not like the copper coins, then you might indeed have something worth investigating further.
Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one. Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
@Sapyx what a couple of lovely and well thought out and perfectly articulated responses... That are a complete waste of time because OP won't listen to any answer that doesn't confirm his ridiculous hypothesis and logic and reason are wasted.
Since you refuse to take the advice and opinions of the very knowledgeable people on the forum why don't you just send it for certification. Obviously you have more money than you claim ( 68 Camaro and 700 certified coins ). If you are short on cash sell a coin or rwo to get the funds. It makes no sense what so ever to continually argue against the experts here.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
a 90 % silver dime seems to read almost the same as the penny in question , and higher than the wheat cent. i get a quarter and dime are goin to register a different signal tone, but the scale will still be in the silver range, wouldnt it? just higher up on the silver end of the spectrum if you will? trying to find out an answer to what this coin is has brought out some answers better off kept to themselves, thank you for trying to help me with getting an answer not a headache, i dont need., even is your answer doesnt get me there, youve TRIED to help me in a kind, personable way, and i APPRECIATE your answer and suggestion
Honestly though, a simple scrape test on the edge using nitric acid will tell you if it is or has silver in it.
Test kits are not expensive, though invasive. But don't entertain the thought any more. Trust your fellow coin enthusiasts.
It is probably worth a ton of money. Sell a couple of the 700 coins, send it off express cert, sit back and enjoy a couple cool refreshing bud lights, then post the amazing discovery while showing the naysayers how wrong they were. Easy plan. Less talk, more action=more results.
i just noticed, in this picture, you can SEE the remnants of the reeded edge. im going to guess, it is a dime, punched on a THIN dime planchet, that got restruck as a cent.. and youre right, i THINK its very possible, that my return could be a large one. Thanks ALL
@Nulte said:
i just noticed, in this picture, you can SEE the remnants of the reeded edge. im going to guess, it is a dime, punched on a THIN dime planchet, that got restruck as a cent.. and youre right, i THINK its very possible, that my return could be a large one. Thanks ALL
Occam's razor.
You think the most likely explanation is that it is a double error? And why isn't the edge silver? How did the reeding get copper plated during striking when it didn't even contact the collar?
It's a damaged, messed with cent. Send it to PCGS. If it comes back struck on a silver dime, I will pay DOUBLE your submission fees.
@Nulte said:
i just noticed, in this picture, you can SEE the remnants of the reeded edge. im going to guess, it is a dime, punched on a THIN dime planchet, that got restruck as a cent.. and youre right, i THINK its very possible, that my return could be a large one. Thanks ALL
.
. It is a regular dime that you put there yourself, remember? See below:
@Nulte said:
MOST would toss it in the trash, UNLESS YOU HEARD IT, heres a picture of the side view of the cent and one with a dime
.
. I also recall you said you were planning to troll the Forum (see below):
@Nulte said:
thank you again, but im out. and done asking questions, maybe ill troll around making wisecracks, and generally useless comments, just to see my comment
@Nulte said:
i just noticed, in this picture, you can SEE the remnants of the reeded edge. im going to guess, it is a dime, punched on a THIN dime planchet, that got restruck as a cent.. and youre right, i THINK its very possible, that my return could be a large one. Thanks ALL
.
. It is a regular dime that you put there yourself, remember? See below:
@Nulte said:
MOST would toss it in the trash, UNLESS YOU HEARD IT, heres a picture of the side view of the cent and one with a
.
. I also recall you said you were planning to troll the Forum (see below):
@Nulte said:
thank you again, but im out. and done asking questions, maybe ill troll around making wisecracks, and generally useless comments, just to see my comment
LOTS of silver dimes on rolled thin planchets that weigh +/-1.8 grams. fact. 1950D 1.8 gram thin rolled planchet dime sold. fact. cent is 1.9 cm, my coin is 1.8cm fact. SPECIFIC GRAVITY is NOT the same as regular cent, it just so happens to be the EXACT same as a silver dime. .15 THICKNESS on a cent, , dime and my coin .10 so there is THAT and the ring of a silver coin is pretty distinctive, and HARD to duplicate, and its a sound you KNOW it when you HEAR IT, it RINGS! i dont have the thinnest wheat, ever sound like a dime, to my recollection and it even rings a different tone than a penny on the metal detector, like i said, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, i SURE have a HARD TIME calling it a CHICKEN, when ALL SIGNS SAY DUCK. Now, if you want to call it a chicken, because you HAVENT SEEN it or done any of the tests i have, call it a chicken and the ONLY way i will figure out is to go to refinery or pawn shop and use their laser tester and have them run a scan on it with a printout stating composition that ill keep with the coin, for if and when the time comes that we need duck that THINKS OR wants to identify as a chicken, yet still be a duck, at the end of the day. It sure is different when we talk numbers, and dont forget, who is on whos page, i ASK QUESTIONS that i like to LEARN the answers to, i dont troll around commenting on anything im not so sure about, nor did i deny your thoughts, i just laid it out with the evidence, i have in hand. sorry, IF you think a picture mistake MAKES YOU CALL ME NAMES, or that you think you have "done something or caught me" being ANYTHNG BUT NEW TO FORUMS AND POSTING, you just showed who YOU are, a name calling bully. Maybe some of the green eyed monster , showing itself? Im NOT new to Numismatics, by ANY STRETCH, but i AM NEW to computers/forums, and with this kind of just animosity has checked my activities, right into research ONLY. if cant find it anywhere, or it aint real if you got it attitude is just the way the old time dealers were back in the 80s, naysayers and ne er do wells, just out to peel people back in their most desperate of times, by blowing smoke and lowballing. have fun!
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@Nulte said:
LOTS of silver dimes on rolled thin planchets that weigh +/-1.8 grams. fact. 1950D 1.8 gram thin rolled planchet dime sold. fact. cent is 1.9 cm, my coin is 1.8cm fact. SPECIFIC GRAVITY is NOT the same as regular cent, it just so happens to be the EXACT same as a silver dime. .15 THICKNESS on a cent, , dime and my coin .10 so there is THAT and the ring of a silver coin is pretty distinctive, and HARD to duplicate, and its a sound you KNOW it when you HEAR IT, it RINGS! i dont have the thinnest wheat, ever sound like a dime, to my recollection and it even rings a different tone than a penny on the metal detector, like i said, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, i SURE have a HARD TIME calling it a CHICKEN, when ALL SIGNS SAY DUCK. Now, if you want to call it a chicken, because you HAVENT SEEN it or done any of the tests i have, call it a chicken and the ONLY way i will figure out is to go to refinery or pawn shop and use their laser tester and have them run a scan on it with a printout stating composition that ill keep with the coin, for if and when the time comes that we need duck that THINKS OR wants to identify as a chicken, yet still be a duck, at the end of the day. It sure is different when we talk numbers, and dont forget, who is on whos page, i ASK QUESTIONS that i like to LEARN the answers to, i dont troll around commenting on anything im not so sure about, nor did i deny your thoughts, i just laid it out with the evidence, i have in hand. sorry, IF you think a picture mistake MAKES YOU CALL ME NAMES, or that you think you have "done something or caught me" being ANYTHNG BUT NEW TO FORUMS AND POSTING, you just showed who YOU are, a name calling bully. Maybe some of the green eyed monster , showing itself? Im NOT new to Numismatics, by ANY STRETCH, but i AM NEW to computers/forums, and with this kind of just animosity has checked my activities, right into research ONLY. if cant find it anywhere, or it aint real if you got it attitude is just the way the old time dealers were back in the 80s, naysayers and ne er do wells, just out to peel people back in their most desperate of times, by blowing smoke and lowballing. have fun!
You have a heavily damaged cent worth face value. Spend it or throw it in the trash!
Comments
Just shut up already and get it tested.
Well, the Australian sixpences are considerably heavier than 1.88 grams; at 2.83 grams, they aren't much lighter than a regular copper penny, and heavier than a dime. Besides, American mints stopped making Australian coins at the end of WWII. A postulated silver blank would have had to have been floating around the mint for at least five years before ending up getting struck, which seems to be an additional event of low probability we are adding to the chain of improbable events.
The main reason we are discounting your hypothesis that it is silver, is Occam's Razor.
Your hypothesis is that a silver planchet slipped into the penny planchet stream and was struck into a "silver penny"(something that is incredibly improbable, but yes it can happen). Then that same silver penny somehow became copper-coloured. Again, not impossible, but highly improbable.
The alternative hypothesis we are postulating is that it is a normal copper cent that has become damaged, in such a way as to lose a considerable amount of weight. Acid damage is one easy way this can occur.
So, we have to choose between one moderately low probability event, or several very low probability events all happening sequentially. Occam's Razor says that without additional information to inform your choice, one should choose the option with fewer improbable events. Here, the "acid damage" answer is so overwhelmingly more likely, that we are assuming that it is true. It will take considerably stronger evidence to convince us otherwise.
Now, for this next question:
Most metal detector discriminators work on eddy current induction. The response of an acid-treated copper coin should indeed be the same as a normal copper coin, and different to a damaged silver coin, and this requires further investigation. But it is not, in itself, conclusive evidence of its composition.
Assuming you don't have the budget (or science lab connections) to send it off for x-ray analysis, there is a simple test you can do, involving eddy current induction. If you have a few rare earth supermagnets at hand, set them up side by side to make a magnet slide (look up "coin magnetic slide" on YouTube for examples of this in action) and compare the following coins:
What should happen: the silver coins will slide down the magnet slope slowly, as the magnets will induce eddy current braking. The copper coins will not slow down anywhere near as much, as the copper eddy current signal is much lower. If your target coin behaves like the silver coins, and not like the copper coins, then you might indeed have something worth investigating further.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.
@Sapyx what a couple of lovely and well thought out and perfectly articulated responses... That are a complete waste of time because OP won't listen to any answer that doesn't confirm his ridiculous hypothesis and logic and reason are wasted.
Since you refuse to take the advice and opinions of the very knowledgeable people on the forum why don't you just send it for certification. Obviously you have more money than you claim ( 68 Camaro and 700 certified coins ). If you are short on cash sell a coin or rwo to get the funds. It makes no sense what so ever to continually argue against the experts here.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
a 90 % silver dime seems to read almost the same as the penny in question , and higher than the wheat cent. i get a quarter and dime are goin to register a different signal tone, but the scale will still be in the silver range, wouldnt it? just higher up on the silver end of the spectrum if you will? trying to find out an answer to what this coin is has brought out some answers better off kept to themselves, thank you for trying to help me with getting an answer not a headache, i dont need., even is your answer doesnt get me there, youve TRIED to help me in a kind, personable way, and i APPRECIATE your answer and suggestion
Acid trip. Something or someone.
Honestly though, a simple scrape test on the edge using nitric acid will tell you if it is or has silver in it.
Test kits are not expensive, though invasive. But don't entertain the thought any more. Trust your fellow coin enthusiasts.
It is probably worth a ton of money. Sell a couple of the 700 coins, send it off express cert, sit back and enjoy a couple cool refreshing bud lights, then post the amazing discovery while showing the naysayers how wrong they were. Easy plan. Less talk, more action=more results.
i just noticed, in this picture, you can SEE the remnants of the reeded edge. im going to guess, it is a dime, punched on a THIN dime planchet, that got restruck as a cent.. and youre right, i THINK its very possible, that my return could be a large one. Thanks ALL
Occam's razor.
You think the most likely explanation is that it is a double error? And why isn't the edge silver? How did the reeding get copper plated during striking when it didn't even contact the collar?
It's a damaged, messed with cent. Send it to PCGS. If it comes back struck on a silver dime, I will pay DOUBLE your submission fees.
.
.
It is a regular dime that you put there yourself, remember? See below:
.
.
I also recall you said you were planning to troll the Forum (see below):
LMFAO. Tricked by his own photography.
LOTS of silver dimes on rolled thin planchets that weigh +/-1.8 grams. fact. 1950D 1.8 gram thin rolled planchet dime sold. fact. cent is 1.9 cm, my coin is 1.8cm fact. SPECIFIC GRAVITY is NOT the same as regular cent, it just so happens to be the EXACT same as a silver dime. .15 THICKNESS on a cent, , dime and my coin .10 so there is THAT and the ring of a silver coin is pretty distinctive, and HARD to duplicate, and its a sound you KNOW it when you HEAR IT, it RINGS! i dont have the thinnest wheat, ever sound like a dime, to my recollection and it even rings a different tone than a penny on the metal detector, like i said, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, i SURE have a HARD TIME calling it a CHICKEN, when ALL SIGNS SAY DUCK. Now, if you want to call it a chicken, because you HAVENT SEEN it or done any of the tests i have, call it a chicken and the ONLY way i will figure out is to go to refinery or pawn shop and use their laser tester and have them run a scan on it with a printout stating composition that ill keep with the coin, for if and when the time comes that we need duck that THINKS OR wants to identify as a chicken, yet still be a duck, at the end of the day. It sure is different when we talk numbers, and dont forget, who is on whos page, i ASK QUESTIONS that i like to LEARN the answers to, i dont troll around commenting on anything im not so sure about, nor did i deny your thoughts, i just laid it out with the evidence, i have in hand. sorry, IF you think a picture mistake MAKES YOU CALL ME NAMES, or that you think you have "done something or caught me" being ANYTHNG BUT NEW TO FORUMS AND POSTING, you just showed who YOU are, a name calling bully. Maybe some of the green eyed monster , showing itself? Im NOT new to Numismatics, by ANY STRETCH, but i AM NEW to computers/forums, and with this kind of just animosity has checked my activities, right into research ONLY. if cant find it anywhere, or it aint real if you got it attitude is just the way the old time dealers were back in the 80s, naysayers and ne er do wells, just out to peel people back in their most desperate of times, by blowing smoke and lowballing. have fun!
Here is the full and complete list of foreign coins struck at the U.S. Mints.
It’s a 69 pg pdf from Mint Error News.
https://minterrornews.com/foreign_coinage_production_figures.pdf
You have a heavily damaged cent worth face value. Spend it or throw it in the trash!