Home Precious Metals

Gold bar Auth question

handymanhandyman Posts: 5,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

Just got a new gold bar from liberty coins on eBay. Is it Normal for the tip to show a silver tone like this. How do I know if it’s 100% Auth?

Comments

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,189 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks very suspicious. I wonder if it's tungsten covered with gold.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I bought it from liberty coins on ebay they have sold over 500 of these.

  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 15, 2023 7:23PM



  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,263 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've bought coins from them before with no problem, but I'd give them a call and state your concerns. I'd ask them if you could send it back to them for official authentication.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • rte592rte592 Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    I've bought coins from them before with no problem, but I'd give them a call and state your concerns. I'd ask them if you could send it back to them for official authentication.

    I'd contact them through eBay as ask why your 999.9 fine gold bar gas silver in the end.
    Send them the picture.
    Maybe test it on a stone, see if the silver goes away.
    Looks suspect.

  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just did waiting for a response

  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,604 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In my experience Liberty Coin is the real deal when it comes to bullion. That would give me some comfort, but of course if you aren't certain then you should contact them via ebay. Good luck!

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Taking it to my local coin store tomorrow morning.

  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2023 6:48AM

    Coin store was closed today. Will go back tomorrow. Liberty has also not replied to my emails and I opened a return case as well.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That would be an immediate return for me. I have looked at a lot of gold bars like this, and have not encountered that before. Please let us know what transpires. Cheers, RickO

  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Will do. Seller still have not replied to me

  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Scary as he sells millions in gold

  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2023 7:42AM

    Sent him 4 emails now. I’m nervous after reading these replies

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,189 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @handyman said:
    Sent him 4 emails now. I’m nervous after reading these replies

    It's Sunday. He's probably closed. He'll probably answer you sometime tomorrow.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    email says 24/7

  • HigashiyamaHigashiyama Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Liberty Coin is a major operation; I expect you’ll hear back Monday and achieve a satisfactory result.

    As others have said, the edge coloring is unexpected. My (wild) guess is that there was a bit of a flaw in the pouring process that left some residue on the edge, but that it is a real bar. Even if this is the case, it would be reasonable to ask for a replacement.

    Higashiyama
  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They just emailed me and accepted the return. Still going to get it inspected tomorrow and will then proceed. Thanks for the comments and help guys!

  • rte592rte592 Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @handyman said:
    They just emailed me and accepted the return. Still going to get it inspected tomorrow and will then proceed. Thanks for the comments and help guys!

    Let us know the results and get an explanation from liberty coin as well.

  • boxerdadboxerdad Posts: 46 ✭✭

    at a bare minimum weigh it,does it weigh 100gms?
    you can do a specific gravity test on it but at this point if the seller is taking it back i wouldn't worry about it.
    yes sometimes dealers get ahold of bad stuff and it gets through.
    did you check the serial number with PAMP or scan the code on the card?

    i am dyslexia of borg futility is resistant your ass will be laminated.

  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2023 6:54AM

    Just got back from the shop. Everything checked out weight size and gold. But she has also never seen anything like it. She said she would return it just for that fact. Which I just asked the dealer to do.
    Im mailing it back to him once he provides a return lable. But yeah the bar is real but there is a silver edge on it.
    Fun

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,770 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for posting this info @handyman

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It maybe looks like someone drilled holes on the end and filled them with tungsten wire. And then failed to adequately cover the end with gold.

    I would recommend an XRF test on the end of the bar to see what the white metal is.

  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2023 11:25AM

    Got it tested and it was 100% real. Not sure what it is but it was not a second hand bar either. It was original from Pamp factory liberty told me.
    Just mailed it back to them 1 hour ago. They are also sending me a new bar after they get it back.
    It was very odd for sure how it looked. My local dealer said it would give her question it if it walked in looking like that. And that I should ask for an exchange.

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @handyman said:
    Got it tested and it was 100% real. Not sure what it is but it was not a second hand bar either. It was original from Pamp factory liberty told me.
    Just mailed it back to them 1 hour ago. They are also sending me a new bar after they get it back.
    It was very odd for sure how it looked. My local dealer said it would give her question it if it walked in looking like that. And that I should ask for an exchange.

    What type of test did you have done on it ?

  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2023 3:07PM

    It was a device that my local coin store had. I went to Mcbrides Guns/Coins in austin tx. It was a flat electric thing you placed the metal on top of. They have been around for 30+ years and are very respected dealers here.
    Pretty sure it was this device.
    Gold and Silver Purity Testing Scanner with Bullion Wands - Sigma Metalytics

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @handyman said:
    It was a device that my local coin store had. I went to Mcbrides Guns/Coins in austin tx. It was a flat electric thing you placed the metal on top of. They have been around for 30+ years and are very respected dealers here.
    Pretty sure it was this device.
    Gold and Silver Purity Testing Scanner with Bullion Wands - Sigma Metalytics

    The "Sigma" is a handy device. But I don't think it will detect the tungsten core of a gold bar if the amount of gold covering the tungsten is fairly thick (as would be the case with your bar).

  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 17, 2023 4:11PM

    No clue. But one thing that did make me even more nervous was I couldnt get a good hard pen ping test personally. Sounded flat with maybe a ping. I sat doing it for like an hour last night. Seemed off. Nothing even close to the other 2 bars sound. But my local dealer said it was good and weight was 100. I have bought 2 others from this seller and those have no issues. And they all have a different sound from the one that I had issues with.
    Not a fun ordeal

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To me it looks like what @dcarr speculated. 999.9 gold will not ever look like that.

    I know it is late now since you mailed it, but I would have taken a flat file and removed more of the end to see if there really are more round filled holes with white metal. The one photo does look like a couple round hole areas near the center.

    I would not even want to receive another bar at all, because it could be the same just with a better cover-up job.

    I would request a refund or credit and buy 3 US Mint 999.9 one-ounce gold buffaloes instead.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,263 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If Liberty got the bar directly from Pamp, and if the bar is tungsten-filled, then Liberty should notify Pamp and both should check their supply chains for shenanigans.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Replacement came. Seems ok and in much better condition. Should I leave feedback?

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,263 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No comment from Liberty about the returned bar?

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    None.
    This was his first response.
    "Thank you for the message.

    Liberty Coin has been a precious metals bullion and coin dealer for over 50 years and we take the issue of authenticity very seriously. We are a trusted seller on eBay with 404,000+ feedback with 100% positive rating.

    All of our products are sourced directly from the Mints, Refiners or trusted Authorized Distributors of the product. Secondary Market bullion products are electronically tested by our employees to ensure that they are authentic.

    Our staff has decades of experience in buying and selling coins and bullion. You can rest assured that any item you purchased from Liberty Coin has been closely inspected by us and is guaranteed to be genuine. This item is new and sourced from MTB, the sole distributor of PAMP products in the United States.

    The silver appearance may be a variance in light reflecting on the product. The finish may be different therefore light may reflect making it look lighter in color.

    We have accepted your return request.

    Regards,"

    And then I said I would get it tested. He responded with this.

    "If you are going to have the coin independently tested we recommend that you locate a Coin Dealer that has electronic testing equipment such as the Industry-standard Sigma Metalytics devices. This test equipment can verify the Precious Metal content of the coin electronically without damaging the coin. If you are using a Sigma Metalytics devise please ensure you use the 'wand' to test the item and verify that the device was on the correct purity setting which is 90%. You should avoid Pawn Shops or Jewelers who do not have non-invasive electronic testing equipment"

    Then I told him the coin store said it was good. And I then asked If he could assure me the next one will be pure quality and he didnt reply other than the new tracking.

    No comment on the old bar. This is 1of 3 bars that I have bought from them.

  • SilverPlatinumSilverPlatinum Posts: 205 ✭✭✭

    Secondary Market bullion products are electronically tested by our employees to ensure that they are authentic.<

    I doubt that, and do not trust any employee doing tests. I saw them in many YouTube videos how they inspect just one or two coins and leave the rest.......
    I would suggest sending those photos direct to PAMP and see what they say about that.

  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,604 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How much more can they do for you? The accepted the return without question or difficulty, if I read the thread correctly, sent you a replacement bar and communicated with some emails.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Have you performed a "ping" test on the replacement bar ?
    If so, how does it compare to your other bars and the suspect bar ?

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,013 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2023 1:20PM

    my one and a half cents:

    This is why I never buy gold bars, only US minted gold coins. I'm not concerned about what I receive, I test all incoming and outgoing inventory with the sigma. My concern is the growing number of fake bars and how it will deter potential buyers who don't use a sigma.

    Have been using the sigma for years it will shoot down a plated product.

    Liberty is a very reputable dealer, but possible they don't test every product they sell. (bet they will be testing their inventory of these.)

    Dealers like Liberty who sell on ebay usually offer a better price at their website. My current go to dealer is bullionexchanges.com.

    Liberty's reply is incorrect where it tells you to test at the 90% setting - it is a much purer bar. Use of the probes is important. I test with multiple size probes. not uncommon to get a bad reading on a good product simply because of probe size selection. as long as one of the probes givers a good reading I disregard bad readings from the other probes. A bad reading with all probes at the correct instrument setting is grounds to reject the product.

    Smart to return it. reselling it later would have been a problem simply because of its appearance.

    My advice is to stick with US gold coins (certified helps with resell and doesn't add much premium with MS/PR69) and to obtain a sigma it you plan to continue stacking. Note that you can test a slabbed coin with the sigma.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So positive,negative or neutral.
    Im on the negative vote.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,013 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, the visual test is always the first test. If it don't pass, all other tests become irrelevant.

    Vote?
    Positive outcome
    Negative product
    Good post

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • RobMRobM Posts: 524 ✭✭✭

    @handyman said:

    So positive,negative or neutral.
    Im on the negative vote.

    Are you asking what feedback you should give the seller?

  • rte592rte592 Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @handyman said:
    So positive,negative or neutral.
    Im on the negative vote.

    No feedback.
    Would be nice to get an answer as to what the silver was.

  • MartinMartin Posts: 804 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rte592 he’s not going to get a answer. The bar doesn’t belong to him any more. The company made good on it. If there was a problem with that bar it will now stay in house. That bar is, was very suspect. He did well to not accept it. It would be a hard sell down the road even if it is real.

    I would not buy that bar.
    Martin

  • tyler267tyler267 Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭✭

    @handyman said:
    Replacement came. Seems ok and in much better condition. Should I leave feedback?

    I would definately leave feedback. Sounds like they did a great job. They communicated well and replaced the product quickly. I would leave a positive review and comments stating how professionly the seller handled the situation.

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think a reputable bullion dealer should be diligent in verifying the authenticity of items they sell and not send out suspect items in the first place.

  • tyler267tyler267 Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:
    I think a reputable bullion dealer should be diligent in verifying the authenticity of items they sell and not send out suspect items in the first place.

    I agree reputable dealera should not misrepresent or sell counterfeit items. That would not be good.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,013 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think a reputable bullion dealer should be diligent in verifying the authenticity of items they sell and not send out suspect items in the first place.

    A simple visual inspection would have stopped that shipment in its tracks.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,263 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 27, 2023 8:35AM

    .

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
Sign In or Register to comment.