PR40 on a 1940...But... Is this a bonafide proof?
Ted 1
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Comments
Interesting
Collector, occasional seller
Peculiar, yes
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Solid for a PR40, that's an interesting concept.
Personally, I'm not convinced it is a Proof.
Coin Photographer.
I think it highly likely it's a mechanical error on the part of PCGS that was missed by CAC.
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You gotta be kidding. Oh no.
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Yikes 😳
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I'm not convinced that it's not a proof...
Proof coins are graded exactly as other coins of the series, yet always receive the abbreviation PR (sometimes PF). If a proof coin has wear, then it is called an Impaired Proof, and will receive the grade appropriate to the amount of wear it has. It is quite possible for a coin to be graded PR-12, for example.
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Looks like square rims. The edge will tell the story.
If the coin has a knife edge, and is smooth, there is a high probability that it is, indeed, an Impaired Proof.
Pete
Two grading services missing an attribution? Anything is possible, but I don't think so.
Pete
The real question is - Is it a bonafide 40? More like PR30
But it was blessed by CAC
Looks like an impaired proof to me, but 40 is a tad generous imo. Is there a lowball proof section of the registry yet?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
How much luster should be left at this level? There had to have been a way it was attributed
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That's awesome. Someone must have really wanted their sweets from the candy store back in the day.
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Just hoping it is a proof and I didn't get scammed.
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It looks like a lightly worn proof and looks like a 40 to me.
I don't see what you guys are seeing I guess.
peacockcoins
The edges are reeded.
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I lean toward proof but looks more like a high-end 35 than a 40.
Hand me my 11-foot pole.
Best advice ever.
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Whether or not it is proof, I agree with @Manifest_Destiny. Given the wear on Miss Liberty's flag and on the eagle's breast feathers, it seems like a 30 or maybe a 35 at best. That makes it even weirder that it got the CAC sticker.
@braddick -- I think you and I have a different definition of "light" wear.
Definitely not heavy wear, but it is hard for me to see this as a 40.
Occam's Razor makes me think this is a mislabeled business strike. The coin itself also has attributes not common on proof walkers. Initials are clear, all flag detail is clear, and other low relief design elements are clear. One or more of these is typically polished off the die on a proof.
Of course, none of us are looking at the coin in hand, so what we think of the picture is really a moo point.
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The real question: Is there a premium for a PF 40 over EF40 business strike?
Definitely ridding myself of this coin. Got some expert opinions, really should've done diligent homework before purchasing. Lesson learned. Thought it was a proof, I like the 1940/PR 40 match, it being the lowest PCGS has graded- very, very disappointing, but I had doubts.
I thank you all.
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Great advice, but I don't trust it.
peacockcoins
I think you'd need to see the coin in hand to be sure. If the coin shows brilliance and strong rims, it probably is a Proof. Personally, I think the services should stop attributing Proofs at PR53 unless it's a Proof only date (1895 Morgan, etc.) or clear brilliance is showing.
For coins like this, I can't see why there should be a premium involved. Just by an XF-40, and I doubt one could tell the difference (although in this case the XF-40 might have more detail).
Coin Photographer.
Little to none.
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I have to disagree. There are many dates where die diagnostics can be used to distinguish impaired proof from worn business strike. On some issues, a business strike is worth significantly more than a proof.
Are there any proof like surfaces left in and around the devices? If it's a proof, I think there should be!
Proof coins don’t have cartwheel luster at any grading point.
I'm not convinced it matters whether it's a proof
Collector, occasional seller
1940 Business strikes mintages: 9.5 million.
1940 Proof strike mintage: 11,200
I think it matters.
peacockcoins
Just cross it over to CACG......if they cross it as Proof then you can rest assured it is an impaired proof. I highly doubt JA and his crew would make the same mistake twice! I like the coin...the way the rims look on the obverse make me think it is a proof...but what do I know.
Oh, yes for sure. I hadn't considered this in my original post, and I 100% agree.
However, for a coin like in the OP, where there really is no markers and a business strike coin worn down to a 40 can look exactly the same, I just don't see a reason to PR it.
Coin Photographer.
At 40, it doesn't need luster.
Not at 40.
It does in the price, even at 40.
A Proof 40 can show traces of the Proof surface in some of the more protected recesses.
Mintage isn’t everything. Demand is the other part of the equation. Is there enough demand to support pricing above a business strike at that level? I don’t claim to know the answer. The whole point of proof coinage though is for a pristine specimen with good strikes and good mirrors. Will a proof collector have interest at that level? Maybe some one building a lowball set will want one.
Regardless of the point of Proof coinage, many collectors like to buy coins which, for one reason or another, are different/unusual/difficult to come by. Some of those collectors even post here.😉
While I wouldn’t be particularly interested in a circulated Proof Walking Liberty half, I can understand why some people would. And every once in a while, I see a circulated Proof-only classic coin, such as a 20c piece, 3CN or Pattern, which does interest me.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
That is an interesting WLH, and the rims do seem to have proof like definition. We all know, grading proofs from pictures can be difficult... So, until changed, I will accept it as is. Cheers, RickO
UMMM. That's obvious. What was I thinking?
Pete
i mean..ya asked
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Anyone think I should send this one to CAC?
I wouldn’t, even if CAC accepted Kennedy halves for stickering, which they don’t.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
But they do accept Eisenhower dollars...
They do and they accept lots of other coins that you didn’t ask about.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Collector: "CAC, would you sticker a PCGS 1964 SMS (mintage of around ten)?"
CAC: "No."
Collector: "CAC, would you sticker a common- minted by the millions- clad proof Ike dollar?"
CAC: "Of course, yes."
peacockcoins