Peace medal opinions wanted, please: Is my Grant-Cochise medal authentic? A replica? Outright fake?
DocInAZ
Posts: 14 ✭
DocInAZ
Posts: 14 ✭
Answers
I can find no mention of Grant at this council.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I know nothing about it, but it looks like a modern fantasy to me
I know about the history, but what I know about medals and such wouldn't even rise to Newb level--what are the telltale signs that it's a modern fantasy?
Followup: I contacted the seller about returning it and he didn't even squawk about my telling him it's a fake--clearly, he already knew it. Thank you for your help, everyone.
It's about being under the authority of the President - in this case Grant. Not that he was present at the council.
I know nothing about these and wouldn't be able to tell it's fake. What are the signs?
(I wasn't sure whether to take the earlier comment as humorous, but you are entirely correct: General Howard was acting under the aegis--and express order--of Pres. Grant.)
Reading assignment (source):
https://historynet.com/traders-unlikely-bond-cochise-forged-peace/
Search the reading assignment: Grant, Howard, Jeffords, Cochise, and council
(I have an Arizona history library of over 1,500 volumes--I do know the history. I just don't know anything about judging or authenticating medals & whatnot.
)
@DocInAZ... Welcome aboard. Cheers, RickO
Thanks, @RickO!
Denouement: I'm returning the thing for a refund. Turns out, the seller has a history of fakery; he's mentioned on this page http://www.richhartzog.com/fakes.htm as the one who offered to make fakes to order. In my messages I was cordial but firm, trying to see whether he would come clean and admit that the piece is fake. He didn't, but he asked me to make a lower offer on it. I offered him twenty or thirty bucks for it just as a souvenir, which he declined. I hate sending it back, knowing that he'll probably just relist it for another sucker like me to fall for, so I asked for his assurance that he wouldn't, at which point he became furious and cussed me out.
I hope you actually get your refund. Let us know how it turns out.
Still kind of cool though.
Would be a neat key-fob and a conversation piece.
peacockcoins
Truly! I really wish he would sell them as fantasy pieces. I bought my place specifically because I wanted to spend my final years where Jeffords spent his. I'd buy one for everyone I know in the area!
I did get a refund--and also a bunch of abuse!
He plays an "I'm 85 & merely inherited some items a few years ago" (both of which appear to be true, according to Professor Internet) card, however ... it's clear that he's been a known fraud from way back, according to this page (which I found after finding out the seller's name from the return address label, although his seller handle is listed right on this page and would've turned up in a search on same!):
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http://richhartzog.com/fakes.htm
"A few years ago, I was offered fake and fantasy Slave Tags and other tokens, by the original maker! I purchased some of his modern samples, and he offered to make them to order. This maker has since made a number of cast copies and fantasy items. The federal law is very hard on fakes, but not on fantasy items, so most of his recent output appears to be fantasy items. If it is fully hand engraved, BEWARE! His products are listed here as 'by Mr. X,' and he is currently selling on eBay.
"Fake and Fantasy Tokens and Medals
"1858 Cheyenne Hotel Old West Bordello Token. Sold by mul298qdz Chet Mulka, seller of all sorts of hand-engraved fake and fantasy items on eBay. He offered to sell me fake Slave Tags to my order, on his letterhead."
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Had I not been at a friend's--and drinking--when the eBay search alert came up, I wouldn't have even bid because not only would I not have had the money, but I'd have done some digging and run across that Rich Hartzog page. Lesson(s) learned!
Thanks to y'all for your information and advice!
Anyone who offers to hear lower offers on something he's already sold you knows he is a crook, as is anyone who threatens to leave retaliatory negative feedback. But I'm going to leave him negative feedback anyway.
He immediately relisted the medal and is still representing it as genuine.
Should I report his fraud to eBay? Does that do any good at all?
Please provide a link to the current listing.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Here it is:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285384768070
Thank you. It might not do any good, but we can at least report it and hope that eBay removes the listing.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I recognized the style as soon as I saw it -- the engaged token & medal dealers as well as many Civil War and Western Americana dealers have been aware of Mr. Mulka for 40+ years.
I don't understand how can he get away with it for so long. I just reported his fraud and abuse to eBay, and I don't expect anything to come of that but, I don't know, maybe the attorney general of his state (Connecticut)?
I'm on your side but I think there was way too much communication with the seller. He is either intentionally or unintentionally acting willfully ignorant as to the medal's originality.
You didn't need to ask for a refund of postage. If you had just done a SNAD then that would have taken care of it through ebay.
As for asking him to promise to not relist as genuine, I'm not sure how you expected that to go over. Just report as necessary and move on.
I think it's never too late for a man, confronted with his wrong, to repent of it. So I regard it as important to give him that chance.
Don't be too unhappy about being fooled by that seller.
Many reputable historians and scientists were fooled by the Sir Francis Drake "Plate of Brass" fantasy.
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
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Don't worry about getting a negative; sellers can only leave a positive or nothing at all.
This piece is definitely not from the period. Bogus right down to the chemical patina.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
It disturbs me that he can so brazenly (pun intended) defraud people. And he has so many items listed!
He uses the same lettering style on most of his various Indian/Hudson bay/Civil War creations. The slave tags are laughably bad. I also like the "English peace medal" that is just a normal 1797 cartwheel penny with a hole in it and some beads strung through it.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Not only is the medal still listed, but somehow the negative feedback I left him has been removed. What the ...