Seriously... lets see a picture of the reverse and some type of explanation as to the case... It almost looks as if this was an American Express promo (or some type of corporate promo display) for valued customers.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
@2windy2fish said:
I believe this may be the most valid/informative/interesting thread ever posted by a likely troll on this forum!
I couldn't agree more. In my opinion the OP is an obvious troll, but I actually learned a lot from this thread. The amount of knowledge on this board is astonishing.
Supposedly this is a 1964 SMS quarter, Listed in coin facts. It appears to be from different reverse dies than the others and looks very mushy for a coin supposedly made from fresh dies. It actually looks worse than most Washington quarters of any year.
Edit to add photo
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Years ago, I turned down purchasing one of those so-called SMS coins. I just wasn't all that impressed with it. Whether people want to call them SMS or EDS strikes, the coins tend to grade high, and some folks have a lot of money tied up in them believing they are special.
From my experience seeking EDS Jefferson nickels for the last 33 years, I have come to believe, the first coins struck from new dies tend to be proof-like and these so-called SMS coins are not PL. They have a more satin finish look where it's possible the dies that were used were sandblasted to remove the proof-like finishes from the dies. But a very fine sand/product was used in the process to remove just enough of those smooth finishes new dies start out with. Someone may have wanted this done to the dies.
Somewhere in the archives of these threads was a post of someone's visit to a Smithsonian or US Mint that included several pictures of EDS modern coins in trays. I have never been able to find that thread since. I wish I had saved the pictures.
I have also suggested in past threads on this topic that the coins are nothing more than carefully handled EDS strikes of that year.
As for the OP's find, the coins appear to be forever sealed in quite a chunk of acrylic and will be around for eternity long after.....
Here are a couple 1964 Jeffs (that I'm very happy with, btw). While they appear more marky than the nickel posted by SanctionII, the pillars and ear on mine aren't as beat/nicked up as they are on the so-called SMS nickel which should raise other questions. But why aren't these SMS coins proof-like if we are to believe they are early strikes? Something was done to the dies in preparation for stamping these so-called SMS coins.
Although a D mint, it came from a later-made die set, due to having softer details. This example was likely one of the first struck from those dies because it's PL..
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
Unless there is official documentation from the US Mint, I consider the so-called 1964 SMS to be a myth. They are nothing more than very nice business strikes.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
Unless there is official documentation from the US Mint, I consider the so-called 1964 SMS to be a myth. They are nothing more than very nice business strikes.
There is also little documentation supporting the 1913 Liberty nickel.
@OAKSTAR said:
I'm just thinking........ How would I crack them outta there?
Place it in-between two pieces of dry ice, make sure it is really cold, wrap in a towel and smack it with a hammer. Supposedly it will shatter. I haven't tried this method, but plan to.
I have dissolved these in multiple soaks of acetone. First saw off the excess around the coins. Cover completely in acetone and place a lid or aluminum foil to stop vapors. Do this with good ventilation and latex gloves. The acrylic gets really gooey and you carefully scrape off that layer, replace with new acetone, repeat until done. Took about a week. I received a PCGS MS67 top pop for a rare medal I removed from a presentation block like this.
These 1964 coins are best left sealed and are not worth the trouble to get them out.
@PerryHall said:
Unless there is official documentation from the US Mint, I consider the so-called 1964 SMS to be a myth. They are nothing more than very nice business strikes.
There is also little documentation supporting the 1913 Liberty nickel.
Apples and oranges. No one disputes the manner of strike on the 1913 pieces. And their somewhat dubious origin could explain the lack of documentation.
@PerryHall said:
Unless there is official documentation from the US Mint, I consider the so-called 1964 SMS to be a myth. They are nothing more than very nice business strikes.
There is also little documentation supporting the 1913 Liberty nickel.
Apples and oranges. No one disputes the manner of strike on the 1913 pieces. And their somewhat dubious origin could explain the lack of documentation.
My point being that you could also dismiss them, if you were so inclined.
Whether presentation pieces or whatever, the market had made a decision on the 1964 SMS coins just as it did in the heavily hyped 1913 Liberty nickel. It really matters less what their genesis story is. They are what they are.
I would also point out that people DID question the "manner of strike" in the V nickels with one theory being that they weren't struck at the Mint at all.
@PerryHall said:
Unless there is official documentation from the US Mint, I consider the so-called 1964 SMS to be a myth. They are nothing more than very nice business strikes.
There is also little documentation supporting the 1913 Liberty nickel.
Apples and oranges. No one disputes the manner of strike on the 1913 pieces. And their somewhat dubious origin could explain the lack of documentation.
My point being that you could also dismiss them, if you were so inclined.
Whether presentation pieces or whatever, the market had made a decision on the 1964 SMS coins just as it did in the heavily hyped 1913 Liberty nickel. It really matters less what their genesis story is. They are what they are.
I would also point out that people DID question the "manner of strike" in the V nickels with one theory being that they weren't struck at the Mint at all.
By "manner of strike" I was referring to biz strike vs. proof.
@PerryHall said:
Unless there is official documentation from the US Mint, I consider the so-called 1964 SMS to be a myth. They are nothing more than very nice business strikes.
There is also little documentation supporting the 1913 Liberty nickel.
Apples and oranges. The are only five 1913 Liberty nickels while there were millions on 1964 coins struck. Any very well struck high-grade 1964 coin can be claimed to have been from a SMS.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
Unless there is official documentation from the US Mint, I consider the so-called 1964 SMS to be a myth. They are nothing more than very nice business strikes.
There is also little documentation supporting the 1913 Liberty nickel.
Apples and oranges. No one disputes the manner of strike on the 1913 pieces. And their somewhat dubious origin could explain the lack of documentation.
My point being that you could also dismiss them, if you were so inclined.
Whether presentation pieces or whatever, the market had made a decision on the 1964 SMS coins just as it did in the heavily hyped 1913 Liberty nickel. It really matters less what their genesis story is. They are what they are.
I would also point out that people DID question the "manner of strike" in the V nickels with one theory being that they weren't struck at the Mint at all.
How could someone dismiss a 1913 Liberty Nickel? They exist, full stop. The 1964 "SMS" coins are a different story where the manner of striking is what's highly contested. Also, I would make the argument that the TPG's made the decision, not the market.
@PerryHall said:
Unless there is official documentation from the US Mint, I consider the so-called 1964 SMS to be a myth. They are nothing more than very nice business strikes.
There is also little documentation supporting the 1913 Liberty nickel.
Apples and oranges. The are only five 1913 Liberty nickels while there were millions on 1964 coins struck. Any very well struck high-grade 1964 coin can be claimed to have been from a SMS.
While any very well struck 1964 coin could be claimed to be an SMS example, that's not going to cut it. Whatever you choose to label them, the ones that are so-designated exhibit particular characteristics unrelated to strike.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@PerryHall said:
Unless there is official documentation from the US Mint, I consider the so-called 1964 SMS to be a myth. They are nothing more than very nice business strikes.
There is also little documentation supporting the 1913 Liberty nickel.
Apples and oranges. The are only five 1913 Liberty nickels while there were millions on 1964 coins struck. Any very well struck high-grade 1964 coin can be claimed to have been from a SMS.
While any very well struck 1964 coin could be claimed to be an SMS example, that's not going to cut it. Whatever you choose to label them, the ones that are so-designated exhibit particular characteristics unrelated to strike.
Are these "characteristics" absent from all the other 1964 business strike coins?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
Unless there is official documentation from the US Mint, I consider the so-called 1964 SMS to be a myth. They are nothing more than very nice business strikes.
There is also little documentation supporting the 1913 Liberty nickel.
Apples and oranges. The are only five 1913 Liberty nickels while there were millions on 1964 coins struck. Any very well struck high-grade 1964 coin can be claimed to have been from a SMS.
While any very well struck 1964 coin could be claimed to be an SMS example, that's not going to cut it. Whatever you choose to label them, the ones that are so-designated exhibit particular characteristics unrelated to strike.
Mark, I wonder if you've seen one of these while you were at NGC. If so, can you please describe as much in depth as possible what made them recognizable - and would you certify one without any supporting documentation?
@PerryHall said:
Unless there is official documentation from the US Mint, I consider the so-called 1964 SMS to be a myth. They are nothing more than very nice business strikes.
There is also little documentation supporting the 1913 Liberty nickel.
Apples and oranges. The are only five 1913 Liberty nickels while there were millions on 1964 coins struck. Any very well struck high-grade 1964 coin can be claimed to have been from a SMS.
While any very well struck 1964 coin could be claimed to be an SMS example, that's not going to cut it. Whatever you choose to label them, the ones that are so-designated exhibit particular characteristics unrelated to strike.
Are these "characteristics" absent from all the other 1964 business strike coins?
How could I provide a meaningful answer unless I were to look at all 1964 business strike coins? I'm too old and don't have the time or desire to try it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@PerryHall said:
Unless there is official documentation from the US Mint, I consider the so-called 1964 SMS to be a myth. They are nothing more than very nice business strikes.
There is also little documentation supporting the 1913 Liberty nickel.
Apples and oranges. The are only five 1913 Liberty nickels while there were millions on 1964 coins struck. Any very well struck high-grade 1964 coin can be claimed to have been from a SMS.
While any very well struck 1964 coin could be claimed to be an SMS example, that's not going to cut it. Whatever you choose to label them, the ones that are so-designated exhibit particular characteristics unrelated to strike.
Mark, I wonder if you've seen one of these while you were at NGC. If so, can you please describe as much in depth as possible what made them recognizable - and would you certify one without any supporting documentation?
I was a grader at NGC when the coins first surfaced. As best I can recall, NGC graded at least a few sets of the sets before PCGS did. I haven't checked the pop reports recently, but I believe that over time, most, if not all of the coins were crossed to PCGS holders.
Regretfully, I don't remember any of the coins or diagnostics well enough to be of any help in answering your question. In my defense, it was more than 25 years ago.
Since I'm no longer a grader at a grading company, I couldn't certify one if I wanted to. However, at this point, for better or for worse, we're well past the point of documentation being required for 1964 coins to be designated as SMS.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The OP posted this thread on 6-30-2023 and edited it yesterday (to remove the group photo of the 5 coins and to replace it with separate photos of the obverses of the 5 coins).
73 comments have been posted to this thread so far (which collectively provide a wealth of information on the topic of 1964 SMS coins) and for some reason the OP has chosen to not respond to any of the points made in the 73 comments. I wonder why the OP remains radio silent
His thread title states "1964 SMS set. Eat your hearts out boys."
I decline to do so. My heart is just fine where it is, currently pumping at about 58 beats per minute.
I discussed these 64 SMS with a dealer who has seen enough of them in hand he ultimately acquired a full set for a key customer. Main difference seems to be related to provenance, die polish and some subtle finish characteristics. I don't have any desire to own any of them. Plenty of other better Mint documented modern "rarities" to collect.
@logger7 said:
Plus I've never understood the phrase "eat your heart out" which was probably a line from the 60s so the OP is not young.
The earliest reference of this phrase was around 850 BC. Homer used the term in his classical text Iliad. The term was used in the Iliad as a formulaic phrase. Since Homer used the idiom in the Iliad hints that this phrase might originate from Greek mythology. Then it again surfaced around the late 1500s. In the 1950s, it was used as a humorous phrase in a widespread way. The show business mainly used the idiom.
Meaning: It portrays the sadness, unhappiness, and suffering that an individual feels when unable to attain someone or something.
Meaning: The idiom is used to specify that an individual believes that someone will feel great jealousy or grief.
@lasvegasteddy used to have a partial set of these. I don’t remember which denominations he had. Im fairly certain he had the Jefferson and Roosevelt along with the Lincoln. He doesn’t post much here anymore. I hope he sees this and adds to the discussion.
@PerryHall said:
Unless there is official documentation from the US Mint, I consider the so-called 1964 SMS to be a myth. They are nothing more than very nice business strikes.
There is also little documentation supporting the 1913 Liberty nickel.
Apples and oranges. No one disputes the manner of strike on the 1913 pieces. And their somewhat dubious origin could explain the lack of documentation.
My point being that you could also dismiss them, if you were so inclined.
Whether presentation pieces or whatever, the market had made a decision on the 1964 SMS coins just as it did in the heavily hyped 1913 Liberty nickel. It really matters less what their genesis story is. They are what they are.
I would also point out that people DID question the "manner of strike" in the V nickels with one theory being that they weren't struck at the Mint at all.
By "manner of strike" I was referring to biz strike vs. proof.
@PerryHall said:
Unless there is official documentation from the US Mint, I consider the so-called 1964 SMS to be a myth. They are nothing more than very nice business strikes.
There is also little documentation supporting the 1913 Liberty nickel.
Apples and oranges. No one disputes the manner of strike on the 1913 pieces. And their somewhat dubious origin could explain the lack of documentation.
My point being that you could also dismiss them, if you were so inclined.
Whether presentation pieces or whatever, the market had made a decision on the 1964 SMS coins just as it did in the heavily hyped 1913 Liberty nickel. It really matters less what their genesis story is. They are what they are.
I would also point out that people DID question the "manner of strike" in the V nickels with one theory being that they weren't struck at the Mint at all.
How could someone dismiss a 1913 Liberty Nickel? They exist, full stop. The 1964 "SMS" coins are a different story where the manner of striking is what's highly contested. Also, I would make the argument that the TPG's made the decision, not the market.
You could dismiss them as forgeries. You could dismiss them as Mint shenanigans. It's not about existence.
The Eva Adams' coins EXIST. Do you want to issue a full stop there?
None of us are bound by any rudder but our own.
I also don't buy the argument that the one 1933 $20 was accidentally monetized by the export license. But the Market is what it is and they've made their own judgment.
So the market put prices on all of those things. I don't feel the need to collect any of them. [Poverty aside.] I also don't feel the need to try and convince the market that I'm right and they are wrong.
Whatever their genesis, the Eva Adams' coins are what they are: Presentation pieces, SMS trial pieces, just souvenirs Eva took home. No one is ever going to prove that they are something specific because there are no records. So the market judgment is what it is and will likely remain that way. They occupy their place in the Market.
@PerryHall said:
Unless there is official documentation from the US Mint, I consider the so-called 1964 SMS to be a myth. They are nothing more than very nice business strikes.
There is also little documentation supporting the 1913 Liberty nickel.
Apples and oranges. No one disputes the manner of strike on the 1913 pieces. And their somewhat dubious origin could explain the lack of documentation.
My point being that you could also dismiss them, if you were so inclined.
Whether presentation pieces or whatever, the market had made a decision on the 1964 SMS coins just as it did in the heavily hyped 1913 Liberty nickel. It really matters less what their genesis story is. They are what they are.
I would also point out that people DID question the "manner of strike" in the V nickels with one theory being that they weren't struck at the Mint at all.
How could someone dismiss a 1913 Liberty Nickel? They exist, full stop. The 1964 "SMS" coins are a different story where the manner of striking is what's highly contested. Also, I would make the argument that the TPG's made the decision, not the market.
P.S. the TPGs didn't bid the coins up to 6 figures. Certainly the TPGs helped the market just like all the marketing by Mehl and others helped the 1913 Liberty nickel. So, I stand by the Market has decided.
I cant check the reverse because there is a piece of black velvet as the molds back lay. But I have spent many hours gathering information, and and cross referencing pictures with a magnifying glass the most helpful of which I received here greatly appreciated especially the die mark reference pictures on other posts and these coins share the same characteristics including the drip on the Kennedy’s crosslet four. The last two sets that came up for auction came out of the Illinois area and that is where these came from. An online auction at goodwill.com that I won for $56 Thank you to the person that posted the information about freeing them from the resin mold. I saw a YouTube video of a guy doing something similar just without the dry ice. Still trying to figure out how I’m going to submit these PCGS.
I cant check the reverse because there is a piece of black velvet as the molds back lay. But I have spent many hours gathering information, and and cross referencing pictures with a magnifying glass the most helpful of which I received here greatly appreciated especially the die mark reference pictures on other posts and these coins share the same characteristics including the drip on the Kennedy’s crosslet four. The last two sets that came up for auction came out of the Illinois area and that is where these came from. An online auction at goodwill.com that I won for $56 Thank you to the person that posted the information about freeing them from the resin mold. I saw a YouTube video of a guy doing something similar just without the dry ice. Still trying to figure out how I’m going to submit these PCGS.
I cant check the reverse because there is a piece of black velvet as the molds back lay. But I have spent many hours gathering information, and and cross referencing pictures with a magnifying glass the most helpful of which I received here greatly appreciated especially the die mark reference pictures on other posts and these coins share the same characteristics including the drip on the Kennedy’s crosslet four. The last two sets that came up for auction came out of the Illinois area and that is where these came from. An online auction at goodwill.com that I won for $56 Thank you to the person that posted the information about freeing them from the resin mold. I saw a YouTube video of a guy doing something similar just without the dry ice. Still trying to figure out how I’m going to submit these PCGS.
I cant check the reverse because there is a piece of black velvet as the molds back lay. But I have spent many hours gathering information, and and cross referencing pictures with a magnifying glass the most helpful of which I received here greatly appreciated especially the die mark reference pictures on other posts and these coins share the same characteristics including the drip on the Kennedy’s crosslet four. The last two sets that came up for auction came out of the Illinois area and that is where these came from. An online auction at goodwill.com that I won for $56 Thank you to the person that posted the information about freeing them from the resin mold. I saw a YouTube video of a guy doing something similar just without the dry ice. Still trying to figure out how I’m going to submit these PCGS.
I cant check the reverse because there is a piece of black velvet as the molds back lay. But I have spent many hours gathering information, and and cross referencing pictures with a magnifying glass the most helpful of which I received here greatly appreciated especially the die mark reference pictures on other posts and these coins share the same characteristics including the drip on the Kennedy’s crosslet four. The last two sets that came up for auction came out of the Illinois area and that is where these came from. An online auction at goodwill.com that I won for $56 Thank you to the person that posted the information about freeing them from the resin mold. I saw a YouTube video of a guy doing something similar just without the dry ice. Still trying to figure out how I’m going to submit these PCGS.
Comments
Kudos to the OP who scored these gems - don’t let all these pesky “facts” get in the way of your cool find and subsequent gloating! Rock on, brother!
Does the sun ever set on the British Empire?
Seriously... lets see a picture of the reverse and some type of explanation as to the case... It almost looks as if this was an American Express promo (or some type of corporate promo display) for valued customers.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I believe this may be the most valid/informative/interesting thread ever posted by a likely troll on this forum!
I couldn't agree more. In my opinion the OP is an obvious troll, but I actually learned a lot from this thread. The amount of knowledge on this board is astonishing.
Philippians 4:4-7
Asking because I don't know, what is "SMS"?
I think the OP got the life sucked out of him
Martin
SMS = Special Mint Set.
Issued in 1965, 1966, and 1967 when the mint was too busy to produced proper proof sets. The SMS sets were nicer than circulation strikes.
Legend has it
that in 1964 a small number of sets' worth of coins were produced of the same quality as the upcoming SMS sets.
Supposedly this is a 1964 SMS quarter, Listed in coin facts. It appears to be from different reverse dies than the others and looks very mushy for a coin supposedly made from fresh dies. It actually looks worse than most Washington quarters of any year.
Edit to add photo
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The unknown is always more interesting than when all the information is already available.
Years ago, I turned down purchasing one of those so-called SMS coins. I just wasn't all that impressed with it. Whether people want to call them SMS or EDS strikes, the coins tend to grade high, and some folks have a lot of money tied up in them believing they are special.
From my experience seeking EDS Jefferson nickels for the last 33 years, I have come to believe, the first coins struck from new dies tend to be proof-like and these so-called SMS coins are not PL. They have a more satin finish look where it's possible the dies that were used were sandblasted to remove the proof-like finishes from the dies. But a very fine sand/product was used in the process to remove just enough of those smooth finishes new dies start out with. Someone may have wanted this done to the dies.
Somewhere in the archives of these threads was a post of someone's visit to a Smithsonian or US Mint that included several pictures of EDS modern coins in trays. I have never been able to find that thread since. I wish I had saved the pictures.
I have also suggested in past threads on this topic that the coins are nothing more than carefully handled EDS strikes of that year.
As for the OP's find, the coins appear to be forever sealed in quite a chunk of acrylic and will be around for eternity long after.....
Here are a couple 1964 Jeffs (that I'm very happy with, btw). While they appear more marky than the nickel posted by SanctionII, the pillars and ear on mine aren't as beat/nicked up as they are on the so-called SMS nickel which should raise other questions. But why aren't these SMS coins proof-like if we are to believe they are early strikes? Something was done to the dies in preparation for stamping these so-called SMS coins.
Although a D mint, it came from a later-made die set, due to having softer details. This example was likely one of the first struck from those dies because it's PL..
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Unless there is official documentation from the US Mint, I consider the so-called 1964 SMS to be a myth. They are nothing more than very nice business strikes.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
the quarter looks as though it was run over by a truck rim damage
There is also little documentation supporting the 1913 Liberty nickel.
Place it in-between two pieces of dry ice, make sure it is really cold, wrap in a towel and smack it with a hammer. Supposedly it will shatter. I haven't tried this method, but plan to.
I have dissolved these in multiple soaks of acetone. First saw off the excess around the coins. Cover completely in acetone and place a lid or aluminum foil to stop vapors. Do this with good ventilation and latex gloves. The acrylic gets really gooey and you carefully scrape off that layer, replace with new acetone, repeat until done. Took about a week. I received a PCGS MS67 top pop for a rare medal I removed from a presentation block like this.
These 1964 coins are best left sealed and are not worth the trouble to get them out.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Apples and oranges. No one disputes the manner of strike on the 1913 pieces. And their somewhat dubious origin could explain the lack of documentation.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
My point being that you could also dismiss them, if you were so inclined.
Whether presentation pieces or whatever, the market had made a decision on the 1964 SMS coins just as it did in the heavily hyped 1913 Liberty nickel. It really matters less what their genesis story is. They are what they are.
I would also point out that people DID question the "manner of strike" in the V nickels with one theory being that they weren't struck at the Mint at all.
By "manner of strike" I was referring to biz strike vs. proof.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Apples and oranges. The are only five 1913 Liberty nickels while there were millions on 1964 coins struck. Any very well struck high-grade 1964 coin can be claimed to have been from a SMS.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
How could someone dismiss a 1913 Liberty Nickel? They exist, full stop. The 1964 "SMS" coins are a different story where the manner of striking is what's highly contested. Also, I would make the argument that the TPG's made the decision, not the market.
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
While any very well struck 1964 coin could be claimed to be an SMS example, that's not going to cut it. Whatever you choose to label them, the ones that are so-designated exhibit particular characteristics unrelated to strike.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Are these "characteristics" absent from all the other 1964 business strike coins?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Mark, I wonder if you've seen one of these while you were at NGC. If so, can you please describe as much in depth as possible what made them recognizable - and would you certify one without any supporting documentation?
Coin Photographer.
How could I provide a meaningful answer unless I were to look at all 1964 business strike coins? I'm too old and don't have the time or desire to try it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I’m I too late? 😎❤️
Heart✔️
I think I’m..,
Ok ready….
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
I was a grader at NGC when the coins first surfaced. As best I can recall, NGC graded at least a few sets of the sets before PCGS did. I haven't checked the pop reports recently, but I believe that over time, most, if not all of the coins were crossed to PCGS holders.
Regretfully, I don't remember any of the coins or diagnostics well enough to be of any help in answering your question. In my defense, it was more than 25 years ago.
Since I'm no longer a grader at a grading company, I couldn't certify one if I wanted to. However, at this point, for better or for worse, we're well past the point of documentation being required for 1964 coins to be designated as SMS.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The OP posted this thread on 6-30-2023 and edited it yesterday (to remove the group photo of the 5 coins and to replace it with separate photos of the obverses of the 5 coins).
73 comments have been posted to this thread so far (which collectively provide a wealth of information on the topic of 1964 SMS coins) and for some reason the OP has chosen to not respond to any of the points made in the 73 comments. I wonder why the OP remains radio silent
His thread title states "1964 SMS set. Eat your hearts out boys."
I decline to do so. My heart is just fine where it is, currently pumping at about 58 beats per minute.
I discussed these 64 SMS with a dealer who has seen enough of them in hand he ultimately acquired a full set for a key customer. Main difference seems to be related to provenance, die polish and some subtle finish characteristics. I don't have any desire to own any of them. Plenty of other better Mint documented modern "rarities" to collect.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Plus I've never understood the phrase "eat your heart out" which was probably a line from the 60s so the OP is not young.
The earliest reference of this phrase was around 850 BC. Homer used the term in his classical text Iliad. The term was used in the Iliad as a formulaic phrase. Since Homer used the idiom in the Iliad hints that this phrase might originate from Greek mythology. Then it again surfaced around the late 1500s. In the 1950s, it was used as a humorous phrase in a widespread way. The show business mainly used the idiom.
Meaning: It portrays the sadness, unhappiness, and suffering that an individual feels when unable to attain someone or something.
Meaning: The idiom is used to specify that an individual believes that someone will feel great jealousy or grief.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
@lasvegasteddy used to have a partial set of these. I don’t remember which denominations he had. Im fairly certain he had the Jefferson and Roosevelt along with the Lincoln. He doesn’t post much here anymore. I hope he sees this and adds to the discussion.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
I know.
You could dismiss them as forgeries. You could dismiss them as Mint shenanigans. It's not about existence.
The Eva Adams' coins EXIST. Do you want to issue a full stop there?
None of us are bound by any rudder but our own.
I also don't buy the argument that the one 1933 $20 was accidentally monetized by the export license. But the Market is what it is and they've made their own judgment.
So the market put prices on all of those things. I don't feel the need to collect any of them. [Poverty aside.] I also don't feel the need to try and convince the market that I'm right and they are wrong.
Whatever their genesis, the Eva Adams' coins are what they are: Presentation pieces, SMS trial pieces, just souvenirs Eva took home. No one is ever going to prove that they are something specific because there are no records. So the market judgment is what it is and will likely remain that way. They occupy their place in the Market.
Why fight it?
P.S. the TPGs didn't bid the coins up to 6 figures. Certainly the TPGs helped the market just like all the marketing by Mehl and others helped the 1913 Liberty nickel. So, I stand by the Market has decided.
I cant check the reverse because there is a piece of black velvet as the molds back lay. But I have spent many hours gathering information, and and cross referencing pictures with a magnifying glass the most helpful of which I received here greatly appreciated especially the die mark reference pictures on other posts and these coins share the same characteristics including the drip on the Kennedy’s crosslet four. The last two sets that came up for auction came out of the Illinois area and that is where these came from. An online auction at goodwill.com that I won for $56 Thank you to the person that posted the information about freeing them from the resin mold. I saw a YouTube video of a guy doing something similar just without the dry ice. Still trying to figure out how I’m going to submit these PCGS.
I cant check the reverse because there is a piece of black velvet as the molds back lay. But I have spent many hours gathering information, and and cross referencing pictures with a magnifying glass the most helpful of which I received here greatly appreciated especially the die mark reference pictures on other posts and these coins share the same characteristics including the drip on the Kennedy’s crosslet four. The last two sets that came up for auction came out of the Illinois area and that is where these came from. An online auction at goodwill.com that I won for $56 Thank you to the person that posted the information about freeing them from the resin mold. I saw a YouTube video of a guy doing something similar just without the dry ice. Still trying to figure out how I’m going to submit these PCGS.
I cant check the reverse because there is a piece of black velvet as the molds back lay. But I have spent many hours gathering information, and and cross referencing pictures with a magnifying glass the most helpful of which I received here greatly appreciated especially the die mark reference pictures on other posts and these coins share the same characteristics including the drip on the Kennedy’s crosslet four. The last two sets that came up for auction came out of the Illinois area and that is where these came from. An online auction at goodwill.com that I won for $56 Thank you to the person that posted the information about freeing them from the resin mold. I saw a YouTube video of a guy doing something similar just without the dry ice. Still trying to figure out how I’m going to submit these PCGS.
I cant check the reverse because there is a piece of black velvet as the molds back lay. But I have spent many hours gathering information, and and cross referencing pictures with a magnifying glass the most helpful of which I received here greatly appreciated especially the die mark reference pictures on other posts and these coins share the same characteristics including the drip on the Kennedy’s crosslet four. The last two sets that came up for auction came out of the Illinois area and that is where these came from. An online auction at goodwill.com that I won for $56 Thank you to the person that posted the information about freeing them from the resin mold. I saw a YouTube video of a guy doing something similar just without the dry ice. Still trying to figure out how I’m going to submit these PCGS.
I cant check the reverse because there is a piece of black velvet as the molds back lay. But I have spent many hours gathering information, and and cross referencing pictures with a magnifying glass the most helpful of which I received here greatly appreciated especially the die mark reference pictures on other posts and these coins share the same characteristics including the drip on the Kennedy’s crosslet four. The last two sets that came up for auction came out of the Illinois area and that is where these came from. An online auction at goodwill.com that I won for $56 Thank you to the person that posted the information about freeing them from the resin mold. I saw a YouTube video of a guy doing something similar just without the dry ice. Still trying to figure out how I’m going to submit these PCGS.
Is it a full moon or something? What the heck is going on around here these past few days
Founder- Peak Rarities
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It’s rich, ain’t it.
Is there an echo in here?
Philippians 4:4-7
It’s rich, ain’t it?
LOL, I see what you did there.
Philippians 4:4-7