NGC Registry No Longer Recognizing CAC Status for New Additions - No CAC Bonus Score Points

winesteven

I know this is the PCGS site, but the following is of numismatic interest, and is not being critical. However, if the moderator chooses to close or delete this post, that’s ok.

I just received the following from the NGC Registry. If this was only temporary due to technical reasons, I believe they would have inserted the word “temporarily”. They chose to not add that word:

“It has recently come to our attention that the NGC Registry Program is no longer able to access the CAC verification site.

Therefore, we are unable to verify any newly added CAC coins nor award them any (additional) NGC Registry score points.

We will post more information as it becomes available to us.”

Steve

telephoto1

They're going to be a TPG competitor soon enough-perhaps they want to do some proprietary registry of their own at some point?

lermish

The same thing is going on at PCGS. I had a few coins pass on 6/12 and they are still not reflecting anything in the sticker column in the PCGS Set Registry.

PeakRarities

I’m not the least bit surprised, and I also expect the PCGS/CAC registry to get “poofed” in the near future as well.

Vasanti

CAC's business model has changed entirely. In the past, it was advantageous for CAC to cooperate with the NGC and PCGS registries. It is no longer advantageous because their business model is now about grading coins rather than market making.

lilolme

Could it have anything to do with CAC transitioning to a new website/address.

291fifth

This is going to be a very competitive business and it is likely that not all the current major competitors will survive. It will be interesting to watch.

leothelyon

It might be a knee-jerk reaction since the new CACG won't be supporting their 10-point grading system. But rather be stickering (no pun intended) to the 70 point Sheldon scale!

Leo

braddick

I am uncertain if it'll be updated with additional info, yet here is a thread started over at the NGC Registry forum by an administer:
https://boards.ngccoin.com/topic/430968-cac-stickered-coins-in-the-ngc-registry/

retirednow

@telephoto1 said:
They're going to be a TPG competitor soon enough-perhaps they want to do some proprietary registry of their own at some point?

NGC let's you post PCGS coins in their registry and one can win awards. Unlike our host we're it is restricted to only PCGS pieces

So I am not sure it is a competition issue

coinbuf

@retirednow said:

@telephoto1 said:
They're going to be a TPG competitor soon enough-perhaps they want to do some proprietary registry of their own at some point?

NGC let's you post PCGS coins in their registry and one can win awards. Unlike our host we're it is restricted to only PCGS pieces

So I am not sure it is a competition issue

Plus earlier this year it was announced that NGC would allow CAC graded coins into their registry, I have not heard any retraction of that policy so the competition angle is fairly moot from a registry standpoint. In fact if I recall correctly it was @winesteven that reported that announcement from the Jan FUN show.

MetroD

@lilolme said:
Could it have anything to do with CAC transitioning to a new website/address.

This.

Strategic changes are possible at any time. However, this could simply be a software issue related to CAC's recent corporate transition. IMO, the timing is very coincidental.

Smudge

Why can’t everyone just leave well enough alone.

Clackamas1

It is probably just a programming issue.

jmlanzaf

@Clackamas1 said:
It is probably just a programming issue.

Almost definitely. If it were intentional, someone would have made an announcement.

MetroD

Source: https://boards.ngccoin.com/topic/430968-cac-stickered-coins-in-the-ngc-registry/

Catbert

"either with or without a score bonus" to be decided by execs. Wanna bet which way that go?

DelawareDoons

Sounds like the API got messed up.

PeakRarities

@DelawareDoons said:
Sounds like the API got messed up.

Yea, a couple weeks ago. It’s just a domain change, I would think that’s some pretty elementary coding to fix it.

@Catbert said:
"either with or without a score bonus" to be decided by execs. Wanna bet which way that go?

😉

Manifest_Destiny

With the advent of CAC slabbing, I hope CAC goes away in the PCGS registry sets.

coinbuf

@Manifest_Destiny said:
With the advent of CAC slabbing, I hope CAC goes away in the PCGS registry sets.

It is certainly possible that you will get your wish. However, I really don't see the problem, those CAC sets are in addition to the regular PCGS sets. So, since you don't like beans all you have to do is ignore those CAC sets. I really do not see why this would be of any concern to anyone.

alaura22

@Manifest_Destiny said:
With the advent of CAC slabbing, I hope CAC goes away in the PCGS registry sets.

Please explain why you "hope" that it goes away?

Manifest_Destiny

@alaura22 said:

@Manifest_Destiny said:
With the advent of CAC slabbing, I hope CAC goes away in the PCGS registry sets.

Please explain why you "hope" that it goes away?

It's not a PCGS product, so I don't think it belongs in the registry. Not everyone likes CAC beans on their slabs.

Coin Finder

Not sure this is a wise move, but ill bet its just a malfunction..

alaura22

@Manifest_Destiny said:

@alaura22 said:

@Manifest_Destiny said:
With the advent of CAC slabbing, I hope CAC goes away in the PCGS registry sets.

Please explain why you "hope" that it goes away?

It's not a PCGS product, so I don't think it belongs in the registry. Not everyone likes CAC beans on their slabs.

Are you talking about CACG coins? In the PCGS registry?

Manifest_Destiny

No, I'm taking about PCGS recognizing CAC beaned coins in the registry.

alaura22

It's a PCGS graded coin!
You just have another 4 or more eye balls confirming the grade. What is wrong with that?
If you don't like CAC that's fine, but others like the other eye ball conformation

winesteven

L> @Manifest_Destiny said:

No, I'm taking about PCGS recognizing CAC beaned coins in the registry.

Like it or not, CAC stickers are a big part of our hobby, even if you choose to not find out if your coins merit CAC stickers or not. As @alaura22 correctly said, PCGS coins with CAC stickers are indeed PCGS products. So just as PCGS created Everyman sets and Everyman Mint State sets, limiting those sets to PCGS products to attract collectors whose coins fit into those PCGS holdered set criteria, they did the same for their small handful of CAC Composite sets, where only coins in PCGS holders can partake, if they merit CAC stickers.

Steve

willy

I believe this decision is not in PCGS or NGC control. It is probably CAC that will decide who gets the information. I hope that CAC continues with PCGS as that is how I collect.

alaura22

@willy said:
I believe this decision is not in PCGS or NGC control. It is probably CAC that will decide who gets the information. I hope that CAC continues with PCGS as that is how I collect.

Great choice!

coinbuf

@willy said:
I believe this decision is not in PCGS or NGC control. It is probably CAC that will decide who gets the information. I hope that CAC continues with PCGS as that is how I collect.

I really don't see JA taking sides with one TPG or the other, if CACG has decided to cut ties with competing TPG's I'm sure that it will be both not just one.

alaura22

@coinbuf said:

@willy said:
I believe this decision is not in PCGS or NGC control. It is probably CAC that will decide who gets the information. I hope that CAC continues with PCGS as that is how I collect.

I really don't see JA taking sides with one TPG or the other, if CACG has decided to cut ties with competing TPG's I'm sure that it will be both not just one.

I agree, and also believe that would be a terrible decision to do so.
JMO

jdimmick

I agree with some stated above, they are now a competitor with grading, so why as a company should they support it.

DelawareDoons

Sounds like the API got messed up. > @Manifest_Destiny said:

@alaura22 said:

@Manifest_Destiny said:
With the advent of CAC slabbing, I hope CAC goes away in the PCGS registry sets.

Please explain why you "hope" that it goes away?

It's not a PCGS product, so I don't think it belongs in the registry. Not everyone likes CAC beans on their slabs.

I don't understand folks who feel the need to make others conform to their thoughts and feelings rather than just respecting their differences and agreeing to disagree. So because you don't like CAC, you think the way others collect should be arguably detrimentally impacted to better match your feelings? What a selfish world view.

Manifest_Destiny

@DelawareDoons said:
Sounds like the API got messed up. > @Manifest_Destiny said:

@alaura22 said:

@Manifest_Destiny said:
With the advent of CAC slabbing, I hope CAC goes away in the PCGS registry sets.

Please explain why you "hope" that it goes away?

It's not a PCGS product, so I don't think it belongs in the registry. Not everyone likes CAC beans on their slabs.

I don't understand folks who feel the need to make others conform to their thoughts and feelings rather than just respecting their differences and agreeing to disagree. So because you don't like CAC, you think the way others collect should be arguably detrimentally impacted to better match your feelings? What a selfish world view.

It's my opinion, which is just as valid as yours, and I didn't make personal attacks toward those who disagree. Unlike you, I actually respect different opinions.

MetroD

July 24, 2023 update from NGC:

Source: https://boards.ngccoin.com/topic/430968-cac-stickered-coins-in-the-ngc-registry/

PeakRarities

@Catbert said:
"either with or without a score bonus" to be decided by execs. Wanna bet which way that go?

Winner Winner!

Walkerfan

Thanks for the update. Sounds like an equitable decision by NGC.

winesteven

Not surprising, but disappointing. As a generalization, coins that merit CAC stickers tend to have higher market values. The NGC point system is roughly based on value differences!

Steve

Walkerfan

@winesteven said:
Not surprising, but disappointing. As a generalization, coins that merit CAC stickers tend to have higher market values. The NGC point system is roughly based on value differences!

Steve

I agree with you but, then what happens, if NGC starts accepting CACG Coins into their registry? They will have to have a higher point value for those, too, which is tantamount to implying that CAC grading coins are better than both PCGS and NGC. No company would do that. NGC has been more than accommodating. IMHO.

winesteven

Understood. But let's not forget that up until now they DID give extra points for coins with CAC stickers. That clearly acknowledged that NGC apparently felt the coins recognized by CAC as meriting a sticker WERE indeed better than holders without that recognition, hence the extra points. Maybe it wasn't right that they did that, but they did it!!!!!

Presumably, a coin graded by CACG that merits being in their holder is no different in that regard than a TPG holdered coin with a CAC sticker
Steve

dbldie55

Presumably, a coin graded by CACG that merits being in their holder is no different in that regard than a TPG holdered coin with a CAC sticker
Steve

I would agree with that if the coin is a crossover that already has a CAC sticker. I would not agree if it is a raw submission.

winesteven

@dbldie55 said:

Presumably, a coin graded by CACG that merits being in their holder is no different in that regard than a TPG holdered coin with a CAC sticker
Steve

I would agree with that if the coin is a crossover that already has a CAC sticker. I would not agree if it is a raw submission.

So if a coin was graded MS65 by NGC or PCGS and got a CAC sticker (where CAC is saying the coin is defect free and solid for the grade as an MS65) you are saying that if a raw coin is sent to CACG, and they grade it MS65 (with CACG saying the coin is defect free and solid for the grade as an MS65) you feel that CACG opinion is better (or worse) than the CAC opinion on the coin with the sticker?

Steve

FlyingAl

@winesteven said:
Understood. But let's not forget that up until now they DID give extra points for coins with CAC stickers. That clearly acknowledged that NGC apparently felt the coins recognized by CAC as meriting a sticker WERE indeed better than holders without that recognition, hence the extra points. Maybe it wasn't right that they did that, but they did it!!!!!

Presumably, a coin graded by CACG that merits being in their holder is no different in that regard than a TPG holdered coin with a CAC sticker
Steve

The reason for this is that if anything the point bonus didn't do anything to NGC business wise. The beans just said that the grade was correct. Collectors would still send coins to NGC.

However, if they continue giving the bonus collectors will ask why their CACG coins don't get the same bonus. The issues with giving a CAC bonus now is that we will eventually get to the point where NGC is encouraging submitters to go to CACG to get the bonus, which is a mistake for NGC as a business.

jmlanzaf

@DelawareDoons said:
Sounds like the API got messed up. > @Manifest_Destiny said:

@alaura22 said:

@Manifest_Destiny said:
With the advent of CAC slabbing, I hope CAC goes away in the PCGS registry sets.

Please explain why you "hope" that it goes away?

It's not a PCGS product, so I don't think it belongs in the registry. Not everyone likes CAC beans on their slabs.

I don't understand folks who feel the need to make others conform to their thoughts and feelings rather than just respecting their differences and agreeing to disagree. So because you don't like CAC, you think the way others collect should be arguably detrimentally impacted to better match your feelings? What a selfish world view.

To be fair, providing a CAC bonus forces the CAC hater to suffer a penalty in the registry. So, both sides are arguably being "selfish".

keyman64

The pure app has the ability to detect if a coin has a CAC sticker but NGC doesn’t?! That sounds like an admission of…not being able to edit a domain/url path?

alaura22

As far as I know, PCGS registry never gave "extra points" for a CAC stickered coins.
They do have specfic sets for CAC but they are all equal as far as points.
Since I don't have any NGC coins and I don't have any NGC registry sets it doesn't affect me one bit.
I think it wouldn't be right to start a NGC registry set with "only" PCGS coins
JMO

coinbuf

@alaura22 said:
I think it wouldn't be right to start a NGC registry set with "only" PCGS coins
JMO

While I agree with you there are many sets in the NGC registry that have only PCGS coins, many of them by the registry players on this forum. I like that NGC allows PCGS in the registry, but I think (and have said for a long time) that NGC should restrict the use of PCGS coins to display only, no points given for a PCGS coin. But I doubt that will ever happen.

alaura22

@coinbuf said:

@alaura22 said:
I think it wouldn't be right to start a NGC registry set with "only" PCGS coins
JMO

While I agree with you there are many sets in the NGC registry that have only PCGS coins, many of them by the registry players on this forum. I like that NGC allows PCGS in the registry, but I think (and have said for a long time) that NGC should restrict the use of PCGS coins to display only, no points given for a PCGS coin. But I doubt that will ever happen.

Yes, I don't think that would happen either
I have a hard enough time just keeping up with my PCGS sets, don't need more

Walkerfan

@coinbuf said:

@alaura22 said:
I think it wouldn't be right to start a NGC registry set with "only" PCGS coins
JMO

While I agree with you there are many sets in the NGC registry that have only PCGS coins, many of them by the registry players on this forum. I like that NGC allows PCGS in the registry, but I think (and have said for a long time) that NGC should restrict the use of PCGS coins to display only, no points given for a PCGS coin. But I doubt that will ever happen.

Now THIS would bother me a lot...

robec

@Manifest_Destiny said:
With the advent of CAC slabbing, I hope CAC goes away in the PCGS registry sets.

It may have already happened. I have a couple of Lincoln’s that received stickers in early June. So far neither has been recognized as stickered for my CAC Lincoln Registry. Either CAC no longer notifies PCGS or PCGS is no longer recognizing the sticker.