I like the coin. PGCS evaluated the coin in hand- I have not. I am looking at an image of an attractive coin that I so happen to like. PCGS graded it 64 Red and I like it at a higher grade based the image. Without seeing the coin in hand, I am not willing to opine the coin is undergraded.
I will add that 1944 was the first year that over 1 billion cents were struck at Philadelphia. Quantity not quality was the priority.
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@MFeld said:
In my opinion, any guesses below MS66 are harsh. I’d be shocked if the coin doesn’t grade 66 at a minimum and 67 wouldn’t surprise me in the least.
The Coin is MS 64 Red. I was impressed with the flash and color and surprised it was only graded MS 64 so I bought it all in for 20 bucks, hopefully it looks as good in hand.
There’s likely an issue that’s not apparent in the images, as they don’t seem to show anything that merits such a low grade. The one possibility that I can come up with is multiple bad contact marks on the lower left portion of Lincoln’s bust. Please let us know what you see, once you have the coin in hand.
Only issues I see are the stain/darkness on the reverse over the letter “N” in one, hits on Lincoln’s bust (as you noted), significant hit in the field to the left of Lincoln’s bust/coat, and scrape line across Lincoln’s head (above his ear) almost like a brain surgery incision.
Not the ugliest 64, imo
Not the “Ugliest”. These 2 coins also graded MS 64 came from the same seller, some of a few MS red coins possibly from an original roll. Compare!
The last coin you have a picture of is a Denver mint, so not an “original roll” in my definition, but it looks like you got the nicest of the 3. I personally like your coin as a 65 because of the flashy surfaces. I couldn’t help but look up a price guide value on the coin, $12. You really can’t “make” the coin for the $20 with slabbing shipping and fees, so I think you did good.
Do you think 65 solid or plus?. BTW they also had this coin for sale as well.
No 65 plus for your original coin. It’s a fresh original red coin with nice surfaces, but not severely under graded. Odds of the coin gold stickering at cac would be 5% or less. As far as the 44-d in 66red, the picture is so small it’s hard to see any flaws other than a few scattered carbon spots. I’d venture to say that coin is accurately graded but wouldn’t gamble on it potentially upgrading to a pcgs 67.
@Walkerlover said:
Funny that once the grade is posted all of a sudden everybody is finding all these flaws on the coin. What happened to all the smart people who were guessing 66 66+ even 67, 😂 lol. Seems they got cold feet all of a sudden. Can’t the coin just be undergraded. Will post more after I see the coin in hand. Thanks for your participation
We all gave our opinions based on the images. PCGS had the coin in hand. I trust their opinion more than my guess.
@Walkerlover said:
Funny that once the grade is posted all of a sudden everybody is finding all these flaws on the coin. What happened to all the smart people who were guessing 66 66+ even 67, 😂 lol. Seems they got cold feet all of a sudden. Can’t the coin just be undergraded. Will post more after I see the coin in hand. Thanks for your participation
We all gave our opinions based on the images. PCGS had the coin in hand. I trust their opinion more than my guess.
Me too. I’d say the same of just about any coin that a highly regarded grading company or individual had assessed in hand. And that’s regardless of how much better or worse the coin looks in the images compared to the assigned grade.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@bolivarshagnasty said:
The OP's 44 is weakly struck with much of EPB barely there. I would not own this coin as a 64.
I think your assessment which I respect is somewhat harsh as I have seen several later date Lincoln’s with weakness in the very top reverse lettering grade 66, but that’s the TINY top lettering.
But yes the strike seems somewhat slight weak overall. Certainly a negative however the grading services seem to be forgiving of strike as a grade component unless it’s a blatantly obvious poor strike in my humble opinion.
Photos of the coin are slightly out of focus it seems, I will update the forum when I see the coin in hand for a clearer full assessment
Reverse of 1944 66 red from same source. Shows similar weakness in top letters
@bolivarshagnasty said:
The OP's 44 is weakly struck with much of EPB barely there. I would not own this coin as a 64.
It appears that many coins have weakness in the tiny top letters.
Here is another 1944 MS 66 RD from the same roll or source exhibiting similar weakness at the top letters but graded 66. Doesn’t seem strike is a big component of grading by the major services
@bolivarshagnasty said:
The OP's 44 is weakly struck with much of EPB barely there. I would not own this coin as a 64.
It appears that many coins have weakness in the tiny top letters.
Here is another 1944 MS 66 RD from the same roll or source exhibiting similar weakness at the top letters but graded 66. Doesn’t seem strike is a big component of grading by the major services
In general, the major grading companies don’t place as much emphasis on strike as many collectors apparently think.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This is why it's called GUESS the grade. The pictures are pretty bad, and there's probably something that they are hiding that PCGS saw in hand that we can't see.
Sure, it could be under graded. It's just as likely it's correctly graded.
@MFeld said:
In my opinion, any guesses below MS66 are harsh. I’d be shocked if the coin doesn’t grade 66 at a minimum and 67 wouldn’t surprise me in the least.
The Coin is MS 64 Red. I was impressed with the flash and color and surprised it was only graded MS 64 so I bought it all in for 20 bucks, hopefully it looks as good in hand.
There’s likely an issue that’s not apparent in the images, as they don’t seem to show anything that merits such a low grade. The one possibility that I can come up with is multiple bad contact marks on the lower left portion of Lincoln’s bust. Please let us know what you see, once you have the coin in hand.
Mr.Feld. After examining the coin in hand, here are my thoughts.
1) The coin was overexposed with the lightning.
2) That being said the luster is still very strong especially on the obverse more.
3) The coin in hand looks even cleaner than in the photos. Fields super clean. Some very light chatter or planchet marks on the shoulder mainly hardly noticeable to the naked eye. Strike fairly good on obverse slightly weaker on reverse but the TOP LETTERS BY E PLURIBUS FAIRLY STRONG NOT AS DEPICTED AS WEAK IN THE PHOTOS.![]
4) I truly don’t understand why 64. I would think 66 or 66+ as you originally opined.
5) I don’t have anywhere near your grading experience as I grade over photos mainly from the internet as well as seeing a few coins in hand as I am somewhat knowledgeable but still an amateur compared to your vast expertise.
I am posting my imperfect new photos in hand from my IPhone. Perhaps there is some subtle friction on a high point you might see that would explain the grading discrepancy.
You can't ignore the chewy rim and it looks like some marks in Lincoln's hair as well. Is that a large nick in the field to the left of his shoulder? Looks like to me there are enough nicks and dings to warrant the 64.
I've been submitting coins for long enough that now my criteria is that if there are more than 5 nicks or dings, I won't submit it because it will generally come back at 65 or less.
@MFeld said:
In my opinion, any guesses below MS66 are harsh. I’d be shocked if the coin doesn’t grade 66 at a minimum and 67 wouldn’t surprise me in the least.
The Coin is MS 64 Red. I was impressed with the flash and color and surprised it was only graded MS 64 so I bought it all in for 20 bucks, hopefully it looks as good in hand.
There’s likely an issue that’s not apparent in the images, as they don’t seem to show anything that merits such a low grade. The one possibility that I can come up with is multiple bad contact marks on the lower left portion of Lincoln’s bust. Please let us know what you see, once you have the coin in hand.
Mr.Feld. After examining the coin in hand, here are my thoughts.
1) The coin was overexposed with the lightning.
2) That being said the luster is still very strong especially on the obverse more.
3) The coin in hand looks even cleaner than in the photos. Fields super clean. Some very light chatter or planchet marks on the shoulder mainly hardly noticeable to the naked eye. Strike fairly good on obverse slightly weaker on reverse but the TOP LETTERS BY E PLURIBUS FAIRLY STRONG NOT AS DEPICTED AS WEAK IN THE PHOTOS.![]
4) I truly don’t understand why 64. I would think 66 or 66+ as you originally opined.
5) I don’t have anywhere near your grading experience as I grade over photos mainly from the internet as well as seeing a few coins in hand as I am somewhat knowledgeable but still an amateur compared to your vast expertise.
I am posting my imperfect new photos in hand from my IPhone. Perhaps there is some subtle friction on a high point you might see that would explain the grading discrepancy.
Unfortunately, I can’t tell much more from the new images. But the left-facing shoulder area still looks like it might be problematic and I agree with @ProofCollection about the rim. None of the images posted give me confidence that I have a good grasp on the coin’s condition.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
After careful review I have concluded Imho that the coin is no worse than 65+ perhaps 66. No way it looks even remotely like a 64. So I am sending it in to CAC with 1 or 2 more coins for review. Only $16 or maybe $22, small change, to learn. Expecting gold, but even green adds value. Or if no sticker it would be interesting to know what is wrong with the coin that is not apparent but can be seen by the expert crew in N.J. Stay tuned mailing coin tomorrow, will update everyone.
Funny that once the grade is posted all of a sudden everybody is finding all these flaws on the coin. What happened to all the smart people who were guessing 66 66+ even 67, 😂 lol. Seems they got cold feet all of a sudden. Can’t the coin just be undergraded. Will post more after I see the coin in hand. Thanks for your participation
I would not worry about that, people here do a lot of that. Let it go in one eye and out the other. Enjoy the coin, regardless of grade.
@Walkerlover said:
After careful review I have concluded Imho that the coin is no worse than 65+ perhaps 66. No way it looks even remotely like a 64. So I am sending it in to CAC with 1 or 2 more coins for review. Only $16 or maybe $22, small change, to learn. Expecting gold, but even green adds value. Or if no sticker it would be interesting to know what is wrong with the coin that is not apparent but can be seen by the expert crew in N.J. Stay tuned mailing coin tomorrow, will update everyone.
Looking forward to it. It is a solid 64 so I think you'll get the green sticker.
@Walkerlover said:
After careful review I have concluded Imho that the coin is no worse than 65+ perhaps 66. No way it looks even remotely like a 64. So I am sending it in to CAC with 1 or 2 more coins for review. Only $16 or maybe $22, small change, to learn. Expecting gold, but even green adds value. Or if no sticker it would be interesting to know what is wrong with the coin that is not apparent but can be seen by the expert crew in N.J. Stay tuned mailing coin tomorrow, will update everyone.
Looking forward to it. It is a solid 64 so I think you'll get the green sticker.
@Walkerlover said:
After careful review I have concluded Imho that the coin is no worse than 65+ perhaps 66. No way it looks even remotely like a 64. So I am sending it in to CAC with 1 or 2 more coins for review. Only $16 or maybe $22, small change, to learn. Expecting gold, but even green adds value. Or if no sticker it would be interesting to know what is wrong with the coin that is not apparent but can be seen by the expert crew in N.J. Stay tuned mailing coin tomorrow, will update everyone.
Looking forward to it. It is a solid 64 so I think you'll get the green sticker.
Okay let the games begin Lol. This should be fun.
From your new photos it looks nice enough for the grade, and I would not be at all shocked if someday it resides in a 65 holder. Having said that I would not send this to CAC, I do not think that a green bean will add any value to a coin like this, and a gold bean is highly unlikely. But it will be interesting to see.
@Walkerlover said:
After careful review I have concluded Imho that the coin is no worse than 65+ perhaps 66. No way it looks even remotely like a 64. So I am sending it in to CAC with 1 or 2 more coins for review. Only $16 or maybe $22, small change, to learn. Expecting gold, but even green adds value. Or if no sticker it would be interesting to know what is wrong with the coin that is not apparent but can be seen by the expert crew in N.J. Stay tuned mailing coin tomorrow, will update everyone.
Looking forward to it. It is a solid 64 so I think you'll get the green sticker.
Okay let the games begin Lol. This should be fun.
From your new photos it looks nice enough for the grade, and I would not be at all shocked if someday it resides in a 65 holder. Having said that I would not send this to CAC, I do not think that a green bean will add any value to a coin like this, and a gold bean is highly unlikely. But it will be interesting to see.
Fair enough. But compared to these 2 coins from the same company graded MS 64 with similar luster and color graded perhaps from rolls, apparently in the same time frame my coin is so much superior. See below
Have you looked at the PCGS price guide for grades 64, 65 and 66? The differences are insignificant and it appears that you’re being blinded by the pursuit of a sticker.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Walkerlover said:
After careful review I have concluded Imho that the coin is no worse than 65+ perhaps 66. No way it looks even remotely like a 64. So I am sending it in to CAC with 1 or 2 more coins for review. Only $16 or maybe $22, small change, to learn. Expecting gold, but even green adds value. Or if no sticker it would be interesting to know what is wrong with the coin that is not apparent but can be seen by the expert crew in N.J. Stay tuned mailing coin tomorrow, will update everyone.
Looking forward to it. It is a solid 64 so I think you'll get the green sticker.
Okay let the games begin Lol. This should be fun.
From your new photos it looks nice enough for the grade, and I would not be at all shocked if someday it resides in a 65 holder. Having said that I would not send this to CAC, I do not think that a green bean will add any value to a coin like this, and a gold bean is highly unlikely. But it will be interesting to see.
Fair enough. But compared to these 2 coins from the same company graded MS 64 with similar luster and color graded perhaps from rolls, apparently in the same time frame my coin is so much superior. See below
And that is why I think you'll get the green sticker. But as others have pointed out, it would be for academic purposes only.
@MFeld said:
Have you looked at the PCGS price guide for grades 64, 65 and 66? The differences are insignificant and it appears that you’re being blinded by the pursuit of a sticker.
I am not concerned at all with the price guide. I am submitting primarily for the gold sticker. But the green sticker I like having as I want all my coins to have a CAC sticker.
If I don’t keep it for my collection the sticker will add at least $25 in value to the coin, this is based on my research for cheaper coins selling at auction or EBay. And the best part it will only cost $16 as I submitting it with a couple coins to defray the shipping costs. I just sold a nice 1938 MS 66 on EBay for $80 that I couldn’t get any offers at $50 without the sticker.
You yourself said any Guess under 66 is harsh and I trust and regard your opinion highly 😊
@FlyingAl said:
I think the marks on the shoulder will hold it back from the gold.
I'll put my money where my mouth is. If the coin gets a gold sticker, I will take images of it for free so long as you pay postage.
Okay deal as the veteran collector Clackamas has stated shoulder planchet issues are common for Lincoln Cents and coins can grade 65 66 or occasionally 67. See below
Here is my gorgeous MS 67Rd CAC.
Note the fine small planchet marks on the shoulder.
@MFeld said:
Have you looked at the PCGS price guide for grades 64, 65 and 66? The differences are insignificant and it appears that you’re being blinded by the pursuit of a sticker.
I am not concerned at all with the price guide. I am submitting primarily for the gold sticker. But the green sticker I like having as I want all my coins to have a CAC sticker.
If I don’t keep it for my collection the sticker will add at least $25 in value to the coin, this is based on my research for cheaper coins selling at auction or EBay. And the best part it will only cost $16 as I submitting it with a couple coins to defray the shipping costs. I just sold a nice 1938 MS 66 on EBay for $80 that I couldn’t get any offers at $50 without the sticker.
You yourself said any Guess under 66 is harsh and I trust and regard your opinion highly 😊
I did say that - based on images that weren’t the best. I also said that I’d go with the sight-seen opinion of a knowledgeable viewer over that of an opinion from an image. I do wish you success.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld said:
Have you looked at the PCGS price guide for grades 64, 65 and 66? The differences are insignificant and it appears that you’re being blinded by the pursuit of a sticker.
I am not concerned at all with the price guide. I am submitting primarily for the gold sticker. But the green sticker I like having as I want all my coins to have a CAC sticker.
If I don’t keep it for my collection the sticker will add at least $25 in value to the coin, this is based on my research for cheaper coins selling at auction or EBay. And the best part it will only cost $16 as I submitting it with a couple coins to defray the shipping costs. I just sold a nice 1938 MS 66 on EBay for $80 that I couldn’t get any offers at $50 without the sticker.
You yourself said any Guess under 66 is harsh and I trust and regard your opinion highly 😊
I did say that - based on images that weren’t the best. I also said that I’d go with the sight-seen opinion of a knowledgeable viewer over that of an opinion from an image. I do wish you success.
@MFeld said:
Have you looked at the PCGS price guide for grades 64, 65 and 66? The differences are insignificant and it appears that you’re being blinded by the pursuit of a sticker.
I am not concerned at all with the price guide. I am submitting primarily for the gold sticker. But the green sticker I like having as I want all my coins to have a CAC sticker.
If I don’t keep it for my collection the sticker will add at least $25 in value to the coin, this is based on my research for cheaper coins selling at auction or EBay. And the best part it will only cost $16 as I submitting it with a couple coins to defray the shipping costs. I just sold a nice 1938 MS 66 on EBay for $80 that I couldn’t get any offers at $50 without the sticker.
You yourself said any Guess under 66 is harsh and I trust and regard your opinion highly 😊
I did say that - based on images that weren’t the best. I also said that I’d go with the sight-seen opinion of a knowledgeable viewer over that of an opinion from an image. I do wish you success.
@MFeld said:
Have you looked at the PCGS price guide for grades 64, 65 and 66? The differences are insignificant and it appears that you’re being blinded by the pursuit of a sticker.
I am not concerned at all with the price guide. I am submitting primarily for the gold sticker. But the green sticker I like having as I want all my coins to have a CAC sticker.
If I don’t keep it for my collection the sticker will add at least $25 in value to the coin, this is based on my research for cheaper coins selling at auction or EBay. And the best part it will only cost $16 as I submitting it with a couple coins to defray the shipping costs. I just sold a nice 1938 MS 66 on EBay for $80 that I couldn’t get any offers at $50 without the sticker.
You yourself said any Guess under 66 is harsh and I trust and regard your opinion highly 😊
Your numbers are completely incorrect, there is no $16 tier anymore. It will cost you $22 for the review of the coin plus the shipping (at least a few dollars even if you submit with other coins). That eats up all or more of the $25 value increase you think you will gain. Personally I very much doubt you will see that much of a boost, but apparently there is a fool born every minute. Anyone with half a brain should know that the green bean means the coin is, in theory, maxed out at the MS64 grade and should bid less not more. But ebay is full of bidders that don't have much of a clue so your plan might get you to a breakeven point.
While a 67 can have a hit or two, they generally also don't have a chewy rim and you have more than a few hits. I'm not trying to bag on your coin, I'm just trying to point out what PCGS sees and what they grade on, based on dozens of "educational" submissions I've made.
The chewy rims, in yellow, cannot be ignored.
It's hard to tell from the photo but the three largest red circles all appear to have at least 6 nicks each, even if they aren't very large or overall distracting.
There's one significant mark in the field (in red) and the areas in white appear to show additional micro-nicks.
I can only imagine that with better photos we'd see more of the damage. I'm sorry but an MS coin with this many defects generally brings it down to the 64/65 category. I'd love to be proven wrong.
@ProofCollection said:
While a 67 can have a hit or two, they generally also don't have a chewy rim and you have more than a few hits. I'm not trying to bag on your coin, I'm just trying to point out what PCGS sees and what they grade on, based on dozens of "educational" submissions I've made.
The chewy rims, in yellow, cannot be ignored.
It's hard to tell from the photo but the three largest red circles all appear to have at least 6 nicks each, even if they aren't very large or overall distracting.
There's one significant mark in the field (in red) and the areas in white appear to show additional micro-nicks.
I can only imagine that with better photos we'd see more of the damage. I'm sorry but an MS coin with this many defects generally brings it down to the 64/65 category. I'd love to be proven wrong.
Thank you for pointing out the chewy rim I didn’t realize that.
But in hand you barely see the shoulder abrasions and the other nicks you mention. Still the coins color and luster are great and personally I have never seen a 64 Lincoln this clean and attractive.for the grade. I only need to get to 65+ to get gold. I trust Mr. Felds opinion that the grade should not be less than 66 from these photos.
I do appreciate your opinions though.
Realistically only 15 gold stickers in MS Red have been given out over the years as somehow CAC is very tough on Lincoln’s and my coin is not in an old holder so my task is not easy unfortunately
Funny that once the grade is posted all of a sudden everybody is finding all these flaws on the coin. What happened to all the smart people who were guessing 66 66+ even 67, 😂 lol. Seems they got cold feet all of a sudden. Can’t the coin just be undergraded. Will post more after I see the coin in hand. Thanks for your participation
I would not worry about that, people here do a lot of that. Let it go in one eye and out the other. Enjoy the coin, regardless of grade.
@ProofCollection said:
While a 67 can have a hit or two, they generally also don't have a chewy rim and you have more than a few hits. I'm not trying to bag on your coin, I'm just trying to point out what PCGS sees and what they grade on, based on dozens of "educational" submissions I've made.
The chewy rims, in yellow, cannot be ignored.
It's hard to tell from the photo but the three largest red circles all appear to have at least 6 nicks each, even if they aren't very large or overall distracting.
There's one significant mark in the field (in red) and the areas in white appear to show additional micro-nicks.
I can only imagine that with better photos we'd see more of the damage. I'm sorry but an MS coin with this many defects generally brings it down to the 64/65 category. I'd love to be proven wrong.
Thank you for pointing out the chewy rim I didn’t realize that.
But in hand you barely see the shoulder abrasions and the other nicks you mention. Still the coins color and luster are great and personally I have never seen a 64 Lincoln this clean and attractive.for the grade. I only need to get to 65+ to get gold. I trust Mr. Felds opinion that the grade should not be less than 66 from these photos.
I do appreciate your opinions though.
Realistically only 15 gold stickers in MS Red have been given out over the years as somehow CAC is very tough on Lincoln’s and my coin is not in an old holder so my task is not easy unfortunately
Please don’t trust my opinion that the coin shouldn’t grade less than 66 from the photos. Subsequent to my initial comment, rim issues were pointed out by other posters and I later mentioned that the shoulder could be an issue. But more importantly, photos aren’t a substitute for in-hand assessment and PCGS graders didn’t have to rely on images when assigning their grade.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@ProofCollection said:
While a 67 can have a hit or two, they generally also don't have a chewy rim and you have more than a few hits. I'm not trying to bag on your coin, I'm just trying to point out what PCGS sees and what they grade on, based on dozens of "educational" submissions I've made.
The chewy rims, in yellow, cannot be ignored.
It's hard to tell from the photo but the three largest red circles all appear to have at least 6 nicks each, even if they aren't very large or overall distracting.
There's one significant mark in the field (in red) and the areas in white appear to show additional micro-nicks.
I can only imagine that with better photos we'd see more of the damage. I'm sorry but an MS coin with this many defects generally brings it down to the 64/65 category. I'd love to be proven wrong.
Thank you for pointing out the chewy rim I didn’t realize that.
But in hand you barely see the shoulder abrasions and the other nicks you mention. Still the coins color and luster are great and personally I have never seen a 64 Lincoln this clean and attractive.for the grade. I only need to get to 65+ to get gold. I trust Mr. Felds opinion that the grade should not be less than 66 from these photos.
I do appreciate your opinions though.
Realistically only 15 gold stickers in MS Red have been given out over the years as somehow CAC is very tough on Lincoln’s and my coin is not in an old holder so my task is not easy unfortunately
Please don’t trust my opinion that the coin shouldn’t grade less than 66 from the photos. Subsequent to my initial comment, rim issues were pointed out by other posters and I later mentioned that the shoulder could be an issue. But more importantly, photos aren’t a substitute for in-hand assessment and PCGS graders didn’t have to rely on images when assigning their grade.
Thanks for your feedback Mr. Feld. I am more concerned now about the rim issues than the shoulder planchet issues or any contact marks as in hand they really are very small and hardly noticeable. Everything else about the color and luster is superb. But I don’t know how much point wise professional graders might deduct for the rim issues. This is what I did not take into account.
@MFeld said:
Have you looked at the PCGS price guide for grades 64, 65 and 66? The differences are insignificant and it appears that you’re being blinded by the pursuit of a sticker.
I am not concerned at all with the price guide. I am submitting primarily for the gold sticker. But the green sticker I like having as I want all my coins to have a CAC sticker.
If I don’t keep it for my collection the sticker will add at least $25 in value to the coin, this is based on my research for cheaper coins selling at auction or EBay. And the best part it will only cost $16 as I submitting it with a couple coins to defray the shipping costs. I just sold a nice 1938 MS 66 on EBay for $80 that I couldn’t get any offers at $50 without the sticker.
You yourself said any Guess under 66 is harsh and I trust and regard your opinion highly 😊
Your numbers are completely incorrect, there is no $16 tier anymore. It will cost you $22 for the review of the coin plus the shipping (at least a few dollars even if you submit with other coins). That eats up all or more of the $25 value increase you think you will gain. Personally I very much doubt you will see that much of a boost, but apparently there is a fool born every minute. Anyone with half a brain should know that the green bean means the coin is, in theory, maxed out at the MS64 grade and should bid less not more. But ebay is full of bidders that don't have much of a clue so your plan might get you to a breakeven point.
My numbers are not completely incorrect YOURS are. I spoke with CAC and they are in fact honoring the $16 tier right now for collectors only.
There are no fools out there, people are paying much higher prices for CAC coins even lower priced ones, as they want and value the sticker for their collection. They realize the cost involved for getting a sticker these days and the fact that there will be less stickers in the future. Many people do not have access to CAC membership and cannot get a sticker themselves. And the green bean does not mean it’s maxed out for the grade. It could be a plus coin or just make the next grade at PCGS. Many coins get a green sticker and upgrade green at the next grade level. Perhaps you are the fool with your thought process.
Unfortunately no gold sticker. My observation is that perhaps the rim nicks prevented the gold sticker but I don’t know if that was the full issue.
I can only say it is extremely difficult to get a gold sticker in the Lincoln series. Only 17 gold stickers in MS RD out of 12,600 green and gold stickered coins over 15 years of CAC grading. That computes to less than a 1/4 of a percentage!!!
Edited to add there are 725 gold MS FB Mercury Dimes out of 11,000 green and gold graded by CAC which computes to almost 7% in comparison, making it seem like gold is very common in this series.
Perhaps I will send this coin back to CAC in a few months as I think this coin might have a chance for gold upon a review by the CAC graders and JA.
@Walkerlover said:
Unfortunately no gold sticker. My observation is that perhaps the rim nicks prevented the gold sticker but I don’t know if that was the full issue.
I can only say it is extremely difficult to get a gold sticker in the Lincoln series. Only 17 gold stickers in MS RD out of 12,600 green and gold stickered coins over 15 years of CAC grading. That computes to less than a 1/4 of a percentage!!!
Edited to add there are 725 gold MS FB Mercury Dimes out of 11,000 green and gold graded by CAC which computes to almost 7% in comparison, making it seem like gold is very common in this series.
Perhaps I will send this coin back to CAC in a few months as I think this coin might have a chance for gold upon a review by the CAC graders and JA.
Gold stickers are extremely hard to get with any series, let alone a coin in a new generation holder. Think about how often you've seen a recent holder with a gold bean. I submitted a couple for gold review that I think were LOCKS for the next grade up if I were to crack them out, but they have old holders and already had green beans so probably not wise. They did not go gold.
Congrats on the sticker and thanks for the update. If anything, you are probably better off sending it to PCGS for a in-slab trueview picture for $5 + fees and shipping so you can better see why this is solidly graded. Of course you have the coin in-hand but I know when I get the TVs for my coins assessing the grade becomes a lot easier.
@Walkerlover said:
Unfortunately no gold sticker. My observation is that perhaps the rim nicks prevented the gold sticker but I don’t know if that was the full issue.
I can only say it is extremely difficult to get a gold sticker in the Lincoln series. Only 17 gold stickers in MS RD out of 12,600 green and gold stickered coins over 15 years of CAC grading. That computes to less than a 1/4 of a percentage!!!
Edited to add there are 725 gold MS FB Mercury Dimes out of 11,000 green and gold graded by CAC which computes to almost 7% in comparison, making it seem like gold is very common in this series.
Perhaps I will send this coin back to CAC in a few months as I think this coin might have a chance for gold upon a review by the CAC graders and JA.
Gold stickers are extremely hard to get with any series, let alone a coin in a new generation holder. Think about how often you've seen a recent holder with a gold bean. I submitted a couple for gold review that I think were LOCKS for the next grade up if I were to crack them out, but they have old holders and already had green beans so probably not wise. They did not go gold.
It’s unfortunate that CAC has a subconscious bias against newer holders for gold upgrades. That was my second obstacle. There is also some reason that they don’t like giving out gold stickers for Lincoln pennies as it doesn’t make sense so few gold Lincoln’s and a ton of gold Mercury dimes with the same submission amounts
@Walkerlover said:
Unfortunately no gold sticker. My observation is that perhaps the rim nicks prevented the gold sticker but I don’t know if that was the full issue.
I can only say it is extremely difficult to get a gold sticker in the Lincoln series. Only 17 gold stickers in MS RD out of 12,600 green and gold stickered coins over 15 years of CAC grading. That computes to less than a 1/4 of a percentage!!!
Edited to add there are 725 gold MS FB Mercury Dimes out of 11,000 green and gold graded by CAC which computes to almost 7% in comparison, making it seem like gold is very common in this series.
Perhaps I will send this coin back to CAC in a few months as I think this coin might have a chance for gold upon a review by the CAC graders and JA.
@Walkerlover said:
Unfortunately no gold sticker. My observation is that perhaps the rim nicks prevented the gold sticker but I don’t know if that was the full issue.
I can only say it is extremely difficult to get a gold sticker in the Lincoln series. Only 17 gold stickers in MS RD out of 12,600 green and gold stickered coins over 15 years of CAC grading. That computes to less than a 1/4 of a percentage!!!
Edited to add there are 725 gold MS FB Mercury Dimes out of 11,000 green and gold graded by CAC which computes to almost 7% in comparison, making it seem like gold is very common in this series.
Perhaps I will send this coin back to CAC in a few months as I think this coin might have a chance for gold upon a review by the CAC graders and JA.
Question was the fee $16 or $22?
As far as I can see they billed me at the $16 rate. Looks like it’s now in effect for collectors
@Walkerlover said:
Unfortunately no gold sticker. My observation is that perhaps the rim nicks prevented the gold sticker but I don’t know if that was the full issue.
I can only say it is extremely difficult to get a gold sticker in the Lincoln series. Only 17 gold stickers in MS RD out of 12,600 green and gold stickered coins over 15 years of CAC grading. That computes to less than a 1/4 of a percentage!!!
Edited to add there are 725 gold MS FB Mercury Dimes out of 11,000 green and gold graded by CAC which computes to almost 7% in comparison, making it seem like gold is very common in this series.
Perhaps I will send this coin back to CAC in a few months as I think this coin might have a chance for gold upon a review by the CAC graders and JA.
Question was the fee $16 or $22?
As far as I can see they billed me at the $16 rate. Looks like it’s now in effect for collectors
Thank you, I was incorrect in my earlier comment, and I apologize for that incorrect comment.
@Walkerlover said:
Unfortunately no gold sticker. My observation is that perhaps the rim nicks prevented the gold sticker but I don’t know if that was the full issue.
I can only say it is extremely difficult to get a gold sticker in the Lincoln series. Only 17 gold stickers in MS RD out of 12,600 green and gold stickered coins over 15 years of CAC grading. That computes to less than a 1/4 of a percentage!!!
Edited to add there are 725 gold MS FB Mercury Dimes out of 11,000 green and gold graded by CAC which computes to almost 7% in comparison, making it seem like gold is very common in this series.
Perhaps I will send this coin back to CAC in a few months as I think this coin might have a chance for gold upon a review by the CAC graders and JA.
Gold stickers are extremely hard to get with any series, let alone a coin in a new generation holder. Think about how often you've seen a recent holder with a gold bean. I submitted a couple for gold review that I think were LOCKS for the next grade up if I were to crack them out, but they have old holders and already had green beans so probably not wise. They did not go gold.
It’s unfortunate that CAC has a subconscious bias against newer holders for gold upgrades. That was my second obstacle. There is also some reason that they don’t like giving out gold stickers for Lincoln pennies as it doesn’t make sense so few gold Lincoln’s and a ton of gold Mercury dimes with the same submission amounts
I think there's not a CAC bias here - I think it's your bias that that coin is better than it really is.
Many members have stated that the coin isn't gold bean worthy, and now so has CAC. As with the VaultBox threads there needs to be a time to give up.
@Walkerlover said:
Unfortunately no gold sticker. My observation is that perhaps the rim nicks prevented the gold sticker but I don’t know if that was the full issue.
I can only say it is extremely difficult to get a gold sticker in the Lincoln series. Only 17 gold stickers in MS RD out of 12,600 green and gold stickered coins over 15 years of CAC grading. That computes to less than a 1/4 of a percentage!!!
Edited to add there are 725 gold MS FB Mercury Dimes out of 11,000 green and gold graded by CAC which computes to almost 7% in comparison, making it seem like gold is very common in this series.
Perhaps I will send this coin back to CAC in a few months as I think this coin might have a chance for gold upon a review by the CAC graders and JA.
Question was the fee $16 or $22?
As far as I can see they billed me at the $16 rate. Looks like it’s now in effect for collectors
Thank you, I was incorrect in my earlier comment, and I apologize for that incorrect comment.
@Walkerlover said:
Unfortunately no gold sticker. My observation is that perhaps the rim nicks prevented the gold sticker but I don’t know if that was the full issue.
I can only say it is extremely difficult to get a gold sticker in the Lincoln series. Only 17 gold stickers in MS RD out of 12,600 green and gold stickered coins over 15 years of CAC grading. That computes to less than a 1/4 of a percentage!!!
Edited to add there are 725 gold MS FB Mercury Dimes out of 11,000 green and gold graded by CAC which computes to almost 7% in comparison, making it seem like gold is very common in this series.
Perhaps I will send this coin back to CAC in a few months as I think this coin might have a chance for gold upon a review by the CAC graders and JA.
Gold stickers are extremely hard to get with any series, let alone a coin in a new generation holder. Think about how often you've seen a recent holder with a gold bean. I submitted a couple for gold review that I think were LOCKS for the next grade up if I were to crack them out, but they have old holders and already had green beans so probably not wise. They did not go gold.
It’s unfortunate that CAC has a subconscious bias against newer holders for gold upgrades. That was my second obstacle. There is also some reason that they don’t like giving out gold stickers for Lincoln pennies as it doesn’t make sense so few gold Lincoln’s and a ton of gold Mercury dimes with the same submission amounts
I think there's not a CAC bias here - I think it's your bias that that coin is better than it really is.
Many members have stated that the coin isn't gold bean worthy, and now so has CAC. As with the VaultBox threads there needs to be a time to give up.
Many members have seen 66 66+ 65+, only when the grade was revealed did people get cold feet. CAC didn’t give it a gold but grading is subjective and perhaps they weren’t considering it fully, as part of getting a gold sticker is luck and the mood in the grading room. I haven’t necessarily given up as I still will review it at CAC at a later date. I think you are an expert in 1940 proof coins but lacking in understanding Lincoln mint state coins. You have no idea how incredibly difficult it is to catch a gold Lincoln sticker is as only 17 were graded red in 15 years, doesn’t necessarily mean my coin wasn’t gold worthy.
@MFeld said:
Have you looked at the PCGS price guide for grades 64, 65 and 66? The differences are insignificant and it appears that you’re being blinded by the pursuit of a sticker.
I am not concerned at all with the price guide. I am submitting primarily for the gold sticker. But the green sticker I like having as I want all my coins to have a CAC sticker.
If I don’t keep it for my collection the sticker will add at least $25 in value to the coin, this is based on my research for cheaper coins selling at auction or EBay. And the best part it will only cost $16 as I submitting it with a couple coins to defray the shipping costs. I just sold a nice 1938 MS 66 on EBay for $80 that I couldn’t get any offers at $50 without the sticker.
You yourself said any Guess under 66 is harsh and I trust and regard your opinion highly 😊
Your numbers are completely incorrect, there is no $16 tier anymore. It will cost you $22 for the review of the coin plus the shipping (at least a few dollars even if you submit with other coins). That eats up all or more of the $25 value increase you think you will gain. Personally I very much doubt you will see that much of a boost, but apparently there is a fool born every minute. Anyone with half a brain should know that the green bean means the coin is, in theory, maxed out at the MS64 grade and should bid less not more. But ebay is full of bidders that don't have much of a clue so your plan might get you to a breakeven point.
I'm not sure why a green bean should bid "less not more". Without the sticker it could be a C 64 or even an over-rated coin.
Comments
@Walkerlover
I like the coin. PGCS evaluated the coin in hand- I have not. I am looking at an image of an attractive coin that I so happen to like. PCGS graded it 64 Red and I like it at a higher grade based the image. Without seeing the coin in hand, I am not willing to opine the coin is undergraded.
I will add that 1944 was the first year that over 1 billion cents were struck at Philadelphia. Quantity not quality was the priority.
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No 65 plus for your original coin. It’s a fresh original red coin with nice surfaces, but not severely under graded. Odds of the coin gold stickering at cac would be 5% or less. As far as the 44-d in 66red, the picture is so small it’s hard to see any flaws other than a few scattered carbon spots. I’d venture to say that coin is accurately graded but wouldn’t gamble on it potentially upgrading to a pcgs 67.
The overexposed pictures are likely hiding a lot for it to grade only MS64. I would have guessed 67.
We all gave our opinions based on the images. PCGS had the coin in hand. I trust their opinion more than my guess.
Me too. I’d say the same of just about any coin that a highly regarded grading company or individual had assessed in hand. And that’s regardless of how much better or worse the coin looks in the images compared to the assigned grade.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The OP's 44 is weakly struck with much of EPB barely there. I would not own this coin as a 64.
I think your assessment which I respect is somewhat harsh as I have seen several later date Lincoln’s with weakness in the very top reverse lettering grade 66, but that’s the TINY top lettering.
But yes the strike seems somewhat slight weak overall. Certainly a negative however the grading services seem to be forgiving of strike as a grade component unless it’s a blatantly obvious poor strike in my humble opinion.
Photos of the coin are slightly out of focus it seems, I will update the forum when I see the coin in hand for a clearer full assessment
Reverse of 1944 66 red from same source. Shows similar weakness in top letters
It appears that many coins have weakness in the tiny top letters.
Here is another 1944 MS 66 RD from the same roll or source exhibiting similar weakness at the top letters but graded 66. Doesn’t seem strike is a big component of grading by the major services
In general, the major grading companies don’t place as much emphasis on strike as many collectors apparently think.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This is why it's called GUESS the grade. The pictures are pretty bad, and there's probably something that they are hiding that PCGS saw in hand that we can't see.
Sure, it could be under graded. It's just as likely it's correctly graded.
Coin Photographer.
Mr.Feld. After examining the coin in hand, here are my thoughts.
1) The coin was overexposed with the lightning.
2) That being said the luster is still very strong especially on the obverse more.
3) The coin in hand looks even cleaner than in the photos. Fields super clean. Some very light chatter or planchet marks on the shoulder mainly hardly noticeable to the naked eye. Strike fairly good on obverse slightly weaker on reverse but the TOP LETTERS BY E PLURIBUS FAIRLY STRONG NOT AS DEPICTED AS WEAK IN THE PHOTOS.![]
(https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/xc/pumir0g4t7hp.jpeg "")
4) I truly don’t understand why 64. I would think 66 or 66+ as you originally opined.
5) I don’t have anywhere near your grading experience as I grade over photos mainly from the internet as well as seeing a few coins in hand as I am somewhat knowledgeable but still an amateur compared to your vast expertise.
I am posting my imperfect new photos in hand from my IPhone. Perhaps there is some subtle friction on a high point you might see that would explain the grading discrepancy.
You can't ignore the chewy rim and it looks like some marks in Lincoln's hair as well. Is that a large nick in the field to the left of his shoulder? Looks like to me there are enough nicks and dings to warrant the 64.
I've been submitting coins for long enough that now my criteria is that if there are more than 5 nicks or dings, I won't submit it because it will generally come back at 65 or less.
http://ProofCollection.Net
From your new photos I would say the coin is accurately graded. I will also say I like the coin and the holder it is in. Congrats.
Editing to add coin in hand looks much better than my lousy IPhone pictures as well
Unfortunately, I can’t tell much more from the new images. But the left-facing shoulder area still looks like it might be problematic and I agree with @ProofCollection about the rim. None of the images posted give me confidence that I have a good grasp on the coin’s condition.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Whenever a wheat cent is photo'd looking yellow/brassy in color vs mint red the estimated grade goes up a point or two.
peacockcoins
Would’ve said 65 red.
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After careful review I have concluded Imho that the coin is no worse than 65+ perhaps 66. No way it looks even remotely like a 64. So I am sending it in to CAC with 1 or 2 more coins for review. Only $16 or maybe $22, small change, to learn. Expecting gold, but even green adds value. Or if no sticker it would be interesting to know what is wrong with the coin that is not apparent but can be seen by the expert crew in N.J. Stay tuned mailing coin tomorrow, will update everyone.
MS66 RD> @Walkerlover said:
I would not worry about that, people here do a lot of that. Let it go in one eye and out the other. Enjoy the coin, regardless of grade.
Looking forward to it. It is a solid 64 so I think you'll get the green sticker.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Okay let the games begin Lol. This should be fun.
From your new photos it looks nice enough for the grade, and I would not be at all shocked if someday it resides in a 65 holder. Having said that I would not send this to CAC, I do not think that a green bean will add any value to a coin like this, and a gold bean is highly unlikely. But it will be interesting to see.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Fair enough. But compared to these 2 coins from the same company graded MS 64 with similar luster and color graded perhaps from rolls, apparently in the same time frame my coin is so much superior. See below
Have you looked at the PCGS price guide for grades 64, 65 and 66? The differences are insignificant and it appears that you’re being blinded by the pursuit of a sticker.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I think the marks on the shoulder will hold it back from the gold.
I'll put my money where my mouth is. If the coin gets a gold sticker, I will take images of it for free so long as you pay postage.
Coin Photographer.
And that is why I think you'll get the green sticker. But as others have pointed out, it would be for academic purposes only.
http://ProofCollection.Net
I am not concerned at all with the price guide. I am submitting primarily for the gold sticker. But the green sticker I like having as I want all my coins to have a CAC sticker.
If I don’t keep it for my collection the sticker will add at least $25 in value to the coin, this is based on my research for cheaper coins selling at auction or EBay. And the best part it will only cost $16 as I submitting it with a couple coins to defray the shipping costs. I just sold a nice 1938 MS 66 on EBay for $80 that I couldn’t get any offers at $50 without the sticker.
You yourself said any Guess under 66 is harsh and I trust and regard your opinion highly 😊
Okay deal as the veteran collector Clackamas has stated shoulder planchet issues are common for Lincoln Cents and coins can grade 65 66 or occasionally 67. See below
Here is my gorgeous MS 67Rd CAC.
Note the fine small planchet marks on the shoulder.
I did say that - based on images that weren’t the best. I also said that I’d go with the sight-seen opinion of a knowledgeable viewer over that of an opinion from an image. I do wish you success.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
TY Mark
Your numbers are completely incorrect, there is no $16 tier anymore. It will cost you $22 for the review of the coin plus the shipping (at least a few dollars even if you submit with other coins). That eats up all or more of the $25 value increase you think you will gain. Personally I very much doubt you will see that much of a boost, but apparently there is a fool born every minute. Anyone with half a brain should know that the green bean means the coin is, in theory, maxed out at the MS64 grade and should bid less not more. But ebay is full of bidders that don't have much of a clue so your plan might get you to a breakeven point.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
While a 67 can have a hit or two, they generally also don't have a chewy rim and you have more than a few hits. I'm not trying to bag on your coin, I'm just trying to point out what PCGS sees and what they grade on, based on dozens of "educational" submissions I've made.
I can only imagine that with better photos we'd see more of the damage. I'm sorry but an MS coin with this many defects generally brings it down to the 64/65 category. I'd love to be proven wrong.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Greysheet retail:
http://ProofCollection.Net
Thank you for pointing out the chewy rim I didn’t realize that.
But in hand you barely see the shoulder abrasions and the other nicks you mention. Still the coins color and luster are great and personally I have never seen a 64 Lincoln this clean and attractive.for the grade. I only need to get to 65+ to get gold. I trust Mr. Felds opinion that the grade should not be less than 66 from these photos.
I do appreciate your opinions though.
Realistically only 15 gold stickers in MS Red have been given out over the years as somehow CAC is very tough on Lincoln’s and my coin is not in an old holder so my task is not easy unfortunately
Thanks for your encouragement
Please don’t trust my opinion that the coin shouldn’t grade less than 66 from the photos. Subsequent to my initial comment, rim issues were pointed out by other posters and I later mentioned that the shoulder could be an issue. But more importantly, photos aren’t a substitute for in-hand assessment and PCGS graders didn’t have to rely on images when assigning their grade.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Thanks for your feedback Mr. Feld. I am more concerned now about the rim issues than the shoulder planchet issues or any contact marks as in hand they really are very small and hardly noticeable. Everything else about the color and luster is superb. But I don’t know how much point wise professional graders might deduct for the rim issues. This is what I did not take into account.
My numbers are not completely incorrect YOURS are. I spoke with CAC and they are in fact honoring the $16 tier right now for collectors only.
There are no fools out there, people are paying much higher prices for CAC coins even lower priced ones, as they want and value the sticker for their collection. They realize the cost involved for getting a sticker these days and the fact that there will be less stickers in the future. Many people do not have access to CAC membership and cannot get a sticker themselves. And the green bean does not mean it’s maxed out for the grade. It could be a plus coin or just make the next grade at PCGS. Many coins get a green sticker and upgrade green at the next grade level. Perhaps you are the fool with your thought process.
Unfortunately no gold sticker. My observation is that perhaps the rim nicks prevented the gold sticker but I don’t know if that was the full issue.
I can only say it is extremely difficult to get a gold sticker in the Lincoln series. Only 17 gold stickers in MS RD out of 12,600 green and gold stickered coins over 15 years of CAC grading. That computes to less than a 1/4 of a percentage!!!
Edited to add there are 725 gold MS FB Mercury Dimes out of 11,000 green and gold graded by CAC which computes to almost 7% in comparison, making it seem like gold is very common in this series.
Perhaps I will send this coin back to CAC in a few months as I think this coin might have a chance for gold upon a review by the CAC graders and JA.
Gold stickers are extremely hard to get with any series, let alone a coin in a new generation holder. Think about how often you've seen a recent holder with a gold bean. I submitted a couple for gold review that I think were LOCKS for the next grade up if I were to crack them out, but they have old holders and already had green beans so probably not wise. They did not go gold.
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Congrats on the sticker and thanks for the update. If anything, you are probably better off sending it to PCGS for a in-slab trueview picture for $5 + fees and shipping so you can better see why this is solidly graded. Of course you have the coin in-hand but I know when I get the TVs for my coins assessing the grade becomes a lot easier.
http://ProofCollection.Net
It’s unfortunate that CAC has a subconscious bias against newer holders for gold upgrades. That was my second obstacle. There is also some reason that they don’t like giving out gold stickers for Lincoln pennies as it doesn’t make sense so few gold Lincoln’s and a ton of gold Mercury dimes with the same submission amounts
Question was the fee $16 or $22?
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
As far as I can see they billed me at the $16 rate. Looks like it’s now in effect for collectors
Thank you, I was incorrect in my earlier comment, and I apologize for that incorrect comment.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I think there's not a CAC bias here - I think it's your bias that that coin is better than it really is.
Many members have stated that the coin isn't gold bean worthy, and now so has CAC. As with the VaultBox threads there needs to be a time to give up.
Coin Photographer.
I don't want to dispute what @Walkerlover reported as I tend to believe he knows what he was charged, but this post on CAC forum indicates the higher price. https://forum.cacgrading.com/discussion/comment/17504#Comment_17504
http://ProofCollection.Net
worth 40 bucks at 66 why slab it? honest question not being sarcastic just curious
Many members have seen 66 66+ 65+, only when the grade was revealed did people get cold feet. CAC didn’t give it a gold but grading is subjective and perhaps they weren’t considering it fully, as part of getting a gold sticker is luck and the mood in the grading room. I haven’t necessarily given up as I still will review it at CAC at a later date. I think you are an expert in 1940 proof coins but lacking in understanding Lincoln mint state coins. You have no idea how incredibly difficult it is to catch a gold Lincoln sticker is as only 17 were graded red in 15 years, doesn’t necessarily mean my coin wasn’t gold worthy.
I'm not sure why a green bean should bid "less not more". Without the sticker it could be a C 64 or even an over-rated coin.