Article on 2023 contemporary counterfeits
Zoins
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Here's an article on 2023 ASE counterfeits on CoinWeek.
Do you agree they seem to qualify to be called "contemporary counterfeits"?
An interesting thing about these is that aren't meant to circulate, but neither are the genuine pieces.
https://coinweek.com/ngc-counterfeit-detection-2023-american-silver-eagle/
Here's a counterfeit from the article, with some comparisons with a genuine piece below.
7
Comments
Counterfeit is a counterfeit. No other name or adjective needed.
USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
My current Registry sets:
✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
✓ Morgan Dollar GSA Hoard (1878 – 1891)
There are some avid collectors of contemporary counterfeits which like the adjective.
Lol. Are you saying there's a difference between a counterfeit and a contemporary counterfeit? Please explain the difference.
Or are confusing the counterfeit with Fantasy?
USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
My current Registry sets:
✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
✓ Morgan Dollar GSA Hoard (1878 – 1891)
I don't really know as I'm not a collector of contemporary counterfeits, which is the reason for my question to those that do collect them.
I sort of want to jump into the conversation, but it kind of makes me feel too tired to bother with...
Seems like a post from someone who knows exactly what a contemporary counterfeit is, designed to elicit comments exactly like the one received..
Do these junk ASE qualify to be called contemporary counterfeits?
Pretty sure you already know your answer...
My thought is that these qualify as contemporary counterfeits since they are both contemporary and counterfeit.
But since I don't collect these, I'm curious to hear the perspective of people that collect contemporary counterfeits.
Two counterfeit flowing hair halves...
One was presumably tossed from a car window to be later found by someone with a metal detector, one is most likely in a numismatic museum somewhere or other..
Which is which?
They're both just counterfeits, right?
GEE. I didn't know that there could be so much bickering about wording.
Pete
It's true.
I was having a grouchy morning 😅
But Zoins is a real numismatist, he knows what a contemporary counterfeit is and my guess is he's fooling around with us, semantically...
It's sort of an unfortunate term, Yeah sure, these bogus ASE are contemporary counterfeits by strict definition, but 18th, 19th century counterfeits are a completely different thing.
Fake money meant to be passed as real.. often a hanging offense back in those days.
Numimatis counterfeits are made to fool collectors and are what we generally discuss on the forum.
Maybe we should call CC's antique counterfeits?
But to answer the question, as someone who collects CC's, at this point I don't think there are many in the CC collecting community who are snapping these things up.
Apples and oranges.
You can get all the counterfeit coins you want on sale for $9.98 currently on Facebook.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
I guess the missing Reed didn't stop any ASE from being counterfeited. A true contemporary counterfeit was made to be used in commerce.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
It seems like, it may be useful to qualify the term contemporary counterfeit, so the ones that have more of a collector following could be called:
These terms can different results when discussing modern coins like the Columbia Sacagawea counterfeits:
Boring.
As Numismatic jargon,/term of art, when I hear contemporary counterfeit, I think of what @zoins (more accurately) would call classic circulating couterfeits. I have a few. As he points out there are other categories, such as the Sacagawea modern circulating couterfeits, and the modern NCLT ASE contemporary counterfeit
contempary counterfiet means modern coin counterfiet
"Contemporary counterfeit" means a counterfeit that was produced in the era of the coin's date or usage, presumably to circulate.
A counterfeit 1878 silver dollar produced in the late 19th century is a contemporary counterfeit. If produced in 2023, it's just a counterfeit.
I don't know of enthusiasts for MODERN contemporary counterfeits. People who collect "Contemporary counterfeits " generally mean classic periods coins counterfeited in the classic period: a 19th century large cent counterfeit made in the 19th century.
50 or 100 years from now, sometime might collect those silver eagles as historical artifacts.
In my mind a "contemporary counterfeit" is one meant to be "spent at face value," which implies that the design of the coin is still common enough in circulation that the coin will not elicit intense scrutiny which might reveal its bogus nature. I give out Ike dollars as tip money, but if I tried to actually spend a counterfeit one as money to buy a pack of gum or whatever the person behind the cash register might take a long, hard look at it.
(The fact that modern young people are woefully ignorant of what money was issued before they were born is irrelevant.)
Back when I worked for ANACS I picked up a small group of low grade Large Size Federal Reserve Notes for small premiums over face value and had fun spending them. One night I stopped at a Long John Silver fish and chips store and bought dinner with one and told the teenager behind the counter that I was a time traveler and that this was the closest thing I had to that decade. He took it, and the next day showed up at ANA Headquarters with it! Fortunately somebody else went out to the front desk to look at it and brought it back into the office.
I’ll jump into the discussion here with some thoughts. This is often a debated issue with regard to word usage. Part of the problem is that inside the circle of contemporary counterfeit collectors, CCs or counterfeits are the term used commonly and the type of coin is already without question. Outside of that, especially with collectors who have no interest in Contemporary Counterfeits, the term counterfeit is the same as a fake, copy, etc and there is no difference between a Chinese copy, a Gallery Mint copy, or a contemporary item.
I agree with many here that a contemporary counterfeit generally will mean that the intended manufacture of the counterfeit item was to be spent/used as currency. A coin made for numismatic reasons is not a contemporary counterfeit.
A better term for contemporary counterfeits may in fact be “circulating counterfeits”. I think that phrase would make logical sense to someone who has no interest or collectable knowledge of counterfeits in general.
And for @jayPem, when is the last time we had a post with 2 1787 CC 1/2 dollars shown!
THis one fascinated me.
Look up the series of books being published by Winston Zack, Bad Metal. It is the current definitive work on circulating contemporary counterfeits. You would certainly enjoy having these references I would think!
https://www.badmetalcoin.com/about