I don't get those in my searches. And they don't actually bother me much, for the simple reason that anyone who pays big bucks for a common, almost-worthless, coin has more money than brains, and is just looking for ways to waste money.
Yes, I understand that mine is not a kind take on it, but there are so many serious things to be bothered about in this world, and people throwing away money on garbage coins doesn't reach that level, to me.
@124Spider said:
I don't get those in my searches. And they don't actually bother me much, for the simple reason that anyone who pays big bucks for a common, almost-worthless, coin has more money than brains, and is just looking for ways to waste money.
Yes, I understand that mine is not a kind take on it, but there are so many serious things to be bothered about in this world, and people throwing away money on garbage coins doesn't reach that level, to me.
I hear you. However, the counter argument is that those flush fools might have ended up collectors of they weren't disillusioned at being taken.
Just looked at today's smattering of common Sacagawea dollars being offered as Cheerios dollars, and the money laundering scheme explanation make sense.
If anybody wants to pursue the matter, start keeping records of the backgrounds of the pictures to see if you can get the same background on multiple pictures from allegedly different sellers in different locations.
As to the different locations, could those be some kind of code to make sure that the payment is going to the right account? If you tell somebody to pay $800 for the Cheerios dollar in Spitoon, West Dakota they are not going to accidentally buy the Cheerios dollar in Hog Breath, South Oklahoma.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I buy a lot of coins off ebay, but it definitely has its fair share of scams and illegal activity. Some don't even try to hide it. I was shocked when this came up in my coin search.
@UpGrayedd said:
I buy a lot of coins off ebay, but it definitely has its fair share of scams and illegal activity. Some don't even try to hide it. I was shocked when this came up in my coin search.
Probably the solution is for ebay to go back to charging a listing fee.
Then those would-be sellers with their fantasy asking prices might think twice when they see they are paying money to list stuff and never get any sales.
And the sellers with realistic prices would get more visibility for their items, once the number of junk listings decreases.
I believe the problem is related to the Tiffany (NJ) Inc. v. eBay Inc. lawsuit, which Tiffany lost. Basically, Tiffany sued ebay for allowing sellers to offer fake Tiffany products. Ebay claimed they were just a middleman, and thus they were not responsible for the authenticity of the items they allowed to be sold. The courts agreed with ebay, and afterward ebay removed a lot of their staff that worked on removing fraudulent listings. I've stopped reporting bogus listings, because ebay doesn't take action anymore.
"It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
If you consider that most of the merchandise being stolen in bulk from retail stores is being sold on ebay and amazon, the percentage of fraudulent sales is much higher. Forever postage stamps on ebay for much less than USPS sells them for? lol
@Steve27 said:
I believe the problem is related to the Tiffany (NJ) Inc. v. eBay Inc. lawsuit, which Tiffany lost. Basically, Tiffany sued ebay for allowing sellers to offer fake Tiffany products. Ebay claimed they were just a middleman, and thus they were not responsible for the authenticity of the items they allowed to be sold. The courts agreed with ebay, and afterward ebay removed a lot of their staff that worked on removing fraudulent listings. I've stopped reporting bogus listings, because ebay doesn't take action anymore.
This is a bit deceitful. This forum alone gets counterfeits removed almost daily. And try and sell a Coach or Tiffany knockoff on ebay and you'll find out how quickly it disappears. Heck, just list a PCI slab and see how long it lasts.
@Steve27 said:
I believe the problem is related to the Tiffany (NJ) Inc. v. eBay Inc. lawsuit, which Tiffany lost. Basically, Tiffany sued ebay for allowing sellers to offer fake Tiffany products. Ebay claimed they were just a middleman, and thus they were not responsible for the authenticity of the items they allowed to be sold. The courts agreed with ebay, and afterward ebay removed a lot of their staff that worked on removing fraudulent listings. I've stopped reporting bogus listings, because ebay doesn't take action anymore.
This is a bit deceitful. This forum alone gets counterfeits removed almost daily. And try and sell a Coach or Tiffany knockoff on ebay and you'll find out how quickly it disappears. Heck, just list a PCI slab and see how long it lasts.
@Steve27 said:
I believe the problem is related to the Tiffany (NJ) Inc. v. eBay Inc. lawsuit, which Tiffany lost. Basically, Tiffany sued ebay for allowing sellers to offer fake Tiffany products. Ebay claimed they were just a middleman, and thus they were not responsible for the authenticity of the items they allowed to be sold. The courts agreed with ebay, and afterward ebay removed a lot of their staff that worked on removing fraudulent listings. I've stopped reporting bogus listings, because ebay doesn't take action anymore.
This is a bit deceitful. This forum alone gets counterfeits removed almost daily. And try and sell a Coach or Tiffany knockoff on ebay and you'll find out how quickly it disappears. Heck, just list a PCI slab and see how long it lasts.
You're missing the point entirely.
No. I completely and totally got YOUR point. Did you read the comment I was responding to? THAT poster, not you, claims that ebay doesn't take action because of the Tiffany suit. That is a lie.
You need to look at the whole discussion. You're completely missing the Tiffany comment.
@Steve27 said:
I believe the problem is related to the Tiffany (NJ) Inc. v. eBay Inc. lawsuit, which Tiffany lost. Basically, Tiffany sued ebay for allowing sellers to offer fake Tiffany products. Ebay claimed they were just a middleman, and thus they were not responsible for the authenticity of the items they allowed to be sold. The courts agreed with ebay, and afterward ebay removed a lot of their staff that worked on removing fraudulent listings. I've stopped reporting bogus listings, because ebay doesn't take action anymore.
This is a bit deceitful. This forum alone gets counterfeits removed almost daily. And try and sell a Coach or Tiffany knockoff on ebay and you'll find out how quickly it disappears. Heck, just list a PCI slab and see how long it lasts.
You're missing the point entirely.
No. I completely and totally got YOUR point. Did you read the comment I was responding to? THAT poster, not you, claims that ebay doesn't take action because of the Tiffany suit. That is a lie.
You need to look at the whole discussion. You're completely missing the Tiffany comment.
It's not a lie. but a reality. There used to be a dedicated person who handled coins and paper money reports. According to one of the members here, who conversed with her often, she was reassigned elsewhere shortly after the Tiffany decision. I doubt it was a coincidence.
"It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
No. I completely and totally got YOUR point. Did you read the comment I was responding to? THAT poster, not you, claims that ebay doesn't take action because of the Tiffany suit. That is a lie.
You need to look at the whole discussion. You're completely missing the Tiffany comment.
No. I completely and totally got YOUR point. Did you read the comment I was responding to? THAT poster, not you, claims that ebay doesn't take action because of the Tiffany suit. That is a lie.
You need to look at the whole discussion. You're completely missing the Tiffany comment.
my bad, carry on.
They changed the way they handled counterfeits but they still pull them. They use a lot of bots. They pull a LOT of listings. But it's rather hard to get them all. And the listings your talking about in this thread are neither fake coins nor necessarily fraudulent listings. There's no policy against my listing pocket change at huge prices.
@Steve27 said:
I believe the problem is related to the Tiffany (NJ) Inc. v. eBay Inc. lawsuit, which Tiffany lost. Basically, Tiffany sued ebay for allowing sellers to offer fake Tiffany products. Ebay claimed they were just a middleman, and thus they were not responsible for the authenticity of the items they allowed to be sold. The courts agreed with ebay, and afterward ebay removed a lot of their staff that worked on removing fraudulent listings. I've stopped reporting bogus listings, because ebay doesn't take action anymore.
This is a bit deceitful. This forum alone gets counterfeits removed almost daily. And try and sell a Coach or Tiffany knockoff on ebay and you'll find out how quickly it disappears. Heck, just list a PCI slab and see how long it lasts.
You're missing the point entirely.
No. I completely and totally got YOUR point. Did you read the comment I was responding to? THAT poster, not you, claims that ebay doesn't take action because of the Tiffany suit. That is a lie.
You need to look at the whole discussion. You're completely missing the Tiffany comment.
It's not a lie. but a reality. There used to be a dedicated person who handled coins and paper money reports. According to one of the members here, who conversed with her often, she was reassigned elsewhere shortly after the Tiffany decision. I doubt it was a coincidence.
I remember messaging her about fraudulent coins, often with result, then as you say she went away.
We do still get results here from multiple reporting, but I suspect that a single complaint is automatically ignored.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@Steve27 said:
I believe the problem is related to the Tiffany (NJ) Inc. v. eBay Inc. lawsuit, which Tiffany lost. Basically, Tiffany sued ebay for allowing sellers to offer fake Tiffany products. Ebay claimed they were just a middleman, and thus they were not responsible for the authenticity of the items they allowed to be sold. The courts agreed with ebay, and afterward ebay removed a lot of their staff that worked on removing fraudulent listings. I've stopped reporting bogus listings, because ebay doesn't take action anymore.
This is a bit deceitful. This forum alone gets counterfeits removed almost daily. And try and sell a Coach or Tiffany knockoff on ebay and you'll find out how quickly it disappears. Heck, just list a PCI slab and see how long it lasts.
You're missing the point entirely.
No. I completely and totally got YOUR point. Did you read the comment I was responding to? THAT poster, not you, claims that ebay doesn't take action because of the Tiffany suit. That is a lie.
You need to look at the whole discussion. You're completely missing the Tiffany comment.
It's not a lie. but a reality. There used to be a dedicated person who handled coins and paper money reports. According to one of the members here, who conversed with her often, she was reassigned elsewhere shortly after the Tiffany decision. I doubt it was a coincidence.
Or it was a coincidence. But either way, it is A LIE that eBay doesn't take action. They take reaction on reports from this forum almost daily. The fact that they have a team doing it rather than a dedicated coin person is quite besides the point.
I would also point out that the Tiffany suit is quite different from the legalities and resulting policies. You can't even list Cuba coins on eBay - even Cuban postcards issued by the U.S. and canceled on U.S. warships - because of U.S. law. You can't list WW II German coins on eBay worldwide because of German prohibitions on Swastikas. You can't list counterfeit U.S. coins, because of U.S. law. And you can't list fake Tiffany (or Coach) by eBay policy. While they may not be financially liable for such listings, they do NOT tolerate such activity.
Go ahead. List fake Tiffany and see how long it lasts...
@jmlanzaf so there are people within the eBay organization who monitor the forum?
And the problem seems to be getting worse by the day. Today is especially bad - auctions ending w/in 3 minutes of each other, 2 different fraudulent sellers:
@supercheezed said: @jmlanzaf so there are people within the eBay organization who monitor the forum?
And the problem seems to be getting worse by the day. Today is especially bad - auctions ending w/in 3 minutes of each other, 2 different fraudulent sellers:
I understand that your finding these but I’m not particularly smart but I do know what I collect. So I still love eBay and believe in personal responsibility. The most important thing is to remember….
Caveat Emptor or let the buyer be ware. Thanks 🙏
@supercheezed said: @jmlanzaf so there are people within the eBay organization who monitor the forum?
And the problem seems to be getting worse by the day. Today is especially bad - auctions ending w/in 3 minutes of each other, 2 different fraudulent sellers:
I understand that your finding these but I’m not particularly smart but I do know what I collect. So I still love eBay and believe in personal responsibility. The most important thing is to remember….
Caveat Emptor or let the buyer be ware. Thanks 🙏
Right on. A lot of folks have invoked Caveat Emptor as a response, but this is extraneous to the topic at hand - that is, a full-blown cyber attack on the eBay platform that focuses on the US Coins category.
@supercheezed said: @jmlanzaf so there are people within the eBay organization who monitor the forum?
And the problem seems to be getting worse by the day. Today is especially bad - auctions ending w/in 3 minutes of each other, 2 different fraudulent sellers:
I understand that your finding these but I’m not particularly smart but I do know what I collect. So I still love eBay and believe in personal responsibility. The most important thing is to remember….
Caveat Emptor or let the buyer be ware. Thanks 🙏
Right on. A lot of folks have invoked Caveat Emptor as a response, but this is extraneous to the topic at hand - that is, a full-blown cyber attack on the eBay platform that focuses on the US Coins category.
Respectfully disagree. Personal responsibility seems to say “ the ball stops here”. I understand what your saying but I still personally find I’m ultimately responsible. Thanks 🙏
That said I appreciate your post and present it as an example. I participate here on the forum ( personal choice). I can open this thread (personal choice). I can read your responses ( personal choice). I can act on the information, again my choice. I believe we are more similar than not.
@Jzyskowski1 said:
Hummmmmmmmm
I practically live on eBay and have for the last 5 years. I can’t say as I noticed anything blatantly wrong. Ofcourse, I’m old😂
That's likely because those of us working aren't typically paying mind to what others are doing in the midst of the jungle.
@supercheezed said: @jmlanzaf so there are people within the eBay organization who monitor the forum?
And the problem seems to be getting worse by the day. Today is especially bad - auctions ending w/in 3 minutes of each other, 2 different fraudulent sellers:
@supercheezed said: @jmlanzaf so there are people within the eBay organization who monitor the forum?
And the problem seems to be getting worse by the day. Today is especially bad - auctions ending w/in 3 minutes of each other, 2 different fraudulent sellers:
I understand that your finding these but I’m not particularly smart but I do know what I collect. So I still love eBay and believe in personal responsibility. The most important thing is to remember….
Caveat Emptor or let the buyer be ware. Thanks 🙏
Right on. A lot of folks have invoked Caveat Emptor as a response, but this is extraneous to the topic at hand - that is, a full-blown cyber attack on the eBay platform that focuses on the US Coins category.
Does it focus on coins or is that the only place we're looking?
Personally, the listings shown are so ridiculous that they don't represent a problem as no one is buying them.
@supercheezed said: @jmlanzaf so there are people within the eBay organization who monitor the forum?
And the problem seems to be getting worse by the day. Today is especially bad - auctions ending w/in 3 minutes of each other, 2 different fraudulent sellers:
I understand that your finding these but I’m not particularly smart but I do know what I collect. So I still love eBay and believe in personal responsibility. The most important thing is to remember….
Caveat Emptor or let the buyer be ware. Thanks 🙏
Right on. A lot of folks have invoked Caveat Emptor as a response, but this is extraneous to the topic at hand - that is, a full-blown cyber attack on the eBay platform that focuses on the US Coins category.
Does it focus on coins or is that the only place we're looking?
Personally, the listings shown are so ridiculous that they don't represent a problem as no one is buying them.
If people didn't buy them often enough to make it worthwhile-be it coins or anything else for that matter- then they wouldn't be listing them. Unfortunately, there are indeed people out there with more money than brains.
@supercheezed said: @jmlanzaf so there are people within the eBay organization who monitor the forum?
And the problem seems to be getting worse by the day. Today is especially bad - auctions ending w/in 3 minutes of each other, 2 different fraudulent sellers:
I understand that your finding these but I’m not particularly smart but I do know what I collect. So I still love eBay and believe in personal responsibility. The most important thing is to remember….
Caveat Emptor or let the buyer be ware. Thanks 🙏
Right on. A lot of folks have invoked Caveat Emptor as a response, but this is extraneous to the topic at hand - that is, a full-blown cyber attack on the eBay platform that focuses on the US Coins category.
Does it focus on coins or is that the only place we're looking?
Personally, the listings shown are so ridiculous that they don't represent a problem as no one is buying them.
If people didn't buy them often enough to make it worthwhile-be it coins or anything else for that matter- then they wouldn't be listing them. Unfortunately, there are indeed people out there with more money than brains.
It's not at all clear why they are listing them. I see almost no sales and those individuals seem to disappear from eBay. It could simply be trolling. After all, even this little old forum attracts its share of trolls.
@supercheezed said: @jmlanzaf so there are people within the eBay organization who monitor the forum?
And the problem seems to be getting worse by the day. Today is especially bad - auctions ending w/in 3 minutes of each other, 2 different fraudulent sellers:
I understand that your finding these but I’m not particularly smart but I do know what I collect. So I still love eBay and believe in personal responsibility. The most important thing is to remember….
Caveat Emptor or let the buyer be ware. Thanks 🙏
Right on. A lot of folks have invoked Caveat Emptor as a response, but this is extraneous to the topic at hand - that is, a full-blown cyber attack on the eBay platform that focuses on the US Coins category.
Does it focus on coins or is that the only place we're looking?
Personally, the listings shown are so ridiculous that they don't represent a problem as no one is buying them.
If people didn't buy them often enough to make it worthwhile-be it coins or anything else for that matter- then they wouldn't be listing them. Unfortunately, there are indeed people out there with more money than brains.
This is not the case here.
At any given time there are 25+ listings with the exact title Lot of Old US Coins Buffalo, Liberty Nickel, Steel Cent with 3 WHEAT LINCOLNS
Of all these listings one is from a legit seller, the remaining 25 are all from different users with 0 seller feedback.
This is just one example of the scam group copying an auction title then listing bogus auctions from multiple accounts.
I read a lot of those auction pages with the characteristics listed above. I have a thread about the funny language in them. I have seen a couple of these sellers who have extensive completed sales of pocket change at the fantasy prices with one bid (thousands of dollars of sales). I knew that there were shenanigans, but until someone suggested money laundering, it made little sense to me. I will post one if I come across a clear example.
I check sellers’ other items and then apply the sold filter.
I read a lot of those auction pages with the characteristics listed above. I have a thread about the funny language in them. I have seen a couple of these sellers who have extensive completed sales of pocket change at the fantasy prices with one bid (thousands of dollars of sales). I knew that there were shenanigans, but until someone suggested money laundering, it made little sense to me. I will post one if I come across a clear example.
I check sellers’ other items and then apply the sold filter.
Here are two examples of sold listings with that exact title:
There are few with those skills and brains, though.
I forgot to mention in my post that one seller had the same coins up for sale that were in the sold filtering that I had seen.
Some are rummage sellers who throw them up on the wall. Some are merely buyers who decide to do the same thing. But there are many of those code-looking alphanumeric usernames with scant sales and feedback.
Palms and fingers fill the photos on a lot of them.
I read a lot of those auction pages with the characteristics listed above. I have a thread about the funny language in them. I have seen a couple of these sellers who have extensive completed sales of pocket change at the fantasy prices with one bid (thousands of dollars of sales). I knew that there were shenanigans, but until someone suggested money laundering, it made little sense to me. I will post one if I come across a clear example.
I check sellers’ other items and then apply the sold filter.
Here are two examples of sold listings with that exact title:
Notice how both sellers have no prior record of sales and both bidders are no longer registered users. This lends credence to the laundering theory.
Except that you could launder 100x more money through a BTC transaction with almost no trail.
It makes little sense as money laundering. You would have to pay with already laundered money. You can't use cash on ebay.
About the only thing you could be doing is using stolen Visa gift cards to turn them into cash. But you're doing it in public with a digital paper trail.
And if it is money laundering, why aren't 100% of the listings actually sold instead of 1%?
@Fraz said:
There are few with those skills and brains, though.
I forgot to mention in my post that one seller had the same coins up for sale that were in the sold filtering that I had seen.
Some are rummage sellers who throw them up on the wall. Some are merely buyers who decide to do the same thing. But there are many of those code-looking alphanumeric usernames with scant sales and feedback.
Palms and fingers fill the photos on a lot of them.
I read a lot of those auction pages with the characteristics listed above. I have a thread about the funny language in them. I have seen a couple of these sellers who have extensive completed sales of pocket change at the fantasy prices with one bid (thousands of dollars of sales). I knew that there were shenanigans, but until someone suggested money laundering, it made little sense to me. I will post one if I come across a clear example.
I check sellers’ other items and then apply the sold filter.
Here are two examples of sold listings with that exact title:
Notice how both sellers have no prior record of sales and both bidders are no longer registered users. This lends credence to the laundering theory.
Except that you could launder 100x more money through a BTC transaction with almost no trail.
It makes little sense as money laundering. You would have to pay with already laundered money. You can't use cash on ebay.
About the only thing you could be doing is using stolen Visa gift cards to turn them into cash. But you're doing it in public with a digital paper trail.
And if it is money laundering, why aren't 100% of the listings actually sold instead of 1%?
Now you're on to something. Say the criminal organization has a database of stolen credit card numbers:
Set up an auction with fake account. Bid on auction with another fake account. Pay for item with stolen credit card. Cash out. Fake buyer is kicked off eBay once the credit card is reported stolen.
@jmlanzaf —You’re probably right. They ain’t arms dealers. I thought that I had considered it more deeply than I did. It takes cash.
I was thinking along this line, but couldn’t flesh it out.
Now you're on to something. Say the criminal organization has a database of stolen credit card numbers:
Set up an auction with fake account. Bid on auction with another fake account. Pay for item with stolen credit card. Cash out. Fake buyer is kicked off eBay once the credit card is reported stolen.
Interesting posts but I think 20% of all ebay listings is a bit of a stretch. They're definitely "out there" but my search terms usually cull them out... unrealistic dealer offerings notwithstanding. ;-)
Seriously though, I'm not sure money laundering is at play since the vast majority of the listings referenced by the OP go unsold. However, we don't really know how many of these "accounts" link back to the same individual or group. But even if they did, the "dirty money" would have already been laundered to be used on ebay since everything is done electronically and there's a paper trail. We also have to report sales over $600 and a 1099 is issued... again, paper trail.
If there's a bot making them (accounts), conceivably they could fly under the radar and go below the $600 threshold but several of these have hammered at $1000 or more... counterintuitive if you're trying to not file paperwork.
As a "side hustle" having a bot create new accounts so you can market your pocket change or yard sale finds at exorbitant prices sort of makes sense. Under this scenario your expectations are pretty low... ANY sale is a win and at minimal effort by the seller. The $600 1099 threshold probably doesn't amount to much even if they file, which they likely won't.
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
@lkenefic said:
Interesting posts but I think 20% of all ebay listings is a bit of a stretch. They're definitely "out there" but my search terms usually cull them out... unrealistic dealer offerings notwithstanding. ;-)
Seriously though, I'm not sure money laundering is at play since the vast majority of the listings referenced by the OP go unsold. However, we don't really know how many of these "accounts" link back to the same individual or group. But even if they did, the "dirty money" would have already been laundered to be used on ebay since everything is done electronically and there's a paper trail. We also have to report sales over $600 and a 1099 is issued... again, paper trail.
If there's a bot making them (accounts), conceivably they could fly under the radar and go below the $600 threshold but several of these have hammered at $1000 or more... counterintuitive if you're trying to not file paperwork.
As a "side hustle" having a bot create new accounts so you can market your pocket change or yard sale finds at exorbitant prices sort of makes sense. Under this scenario your expectations are pretty low... ANY sale is a win and at minimal effort by the seller. The $600 1099 threshold probably doesn't amount to much even if they file, which they likely won't.
Good points. We have mulled over the the "fishing for dummies" theory, but if you look at the auctions that do receive bids and click bid history, you'll see the buyers of these items are also bot accounts. What's interesting is that in most cases, the high bidder has a similar profile to the fake seller and No Longer a Registered User is shown next to user ID.
As for the ratio of bogus auctions, there are some links on first page of the thread to a general eBay search of all auctions ending in the US Coins category in chronological order. If we narrow search to show all auctions priced over $75, almost 50% meet the criteria laid out above!
@lkenefic said:
Interesting posts but I think 20% of all ebay listings is a bit of a stretch. They're definitely "out there" but my search terms usually cull them out... unrealistic dealer offerings notwithstanding. ;-)
Seriously though, I'm not sure money laundering is at play since the vast majority of the listings referenced by the OP go unsold. However, we don't really know how many of these "accounts" link back to the same individual or group. But even if they did, the "dirty money" would have already been laundered to be used on ebay since everything is done electronically and there's a paper trail. We also have to report sales over $600 and a 1099 is issued... again, paper trail.
If there's a bot making them (accounts), conceivably they could fly under the radar and go below the $600 threshold but several of these have hammered at $1000 or more... counterintuitive if you're trying to not file paperwork.
As a "side hustle" having a bot create new accounts so you can market your pocket change or yard sale finds at exorbitant prices sort of makes sense. Under this scenario your expectations are pretty low... ANY sale is a win and at minimal effort by the seller. The $600 1099 threshold probably doesn't amount to much even if they file, which they likely won't.
Good points. We have mulled over the the "fishing for dummies" theory, but if you look at the auctions that do receive bids and click bid history, you'll see the buyers of these items are also bot accounts. What's interesting is that in most cases, the high bidder has a similar profile to the fake seller and No Longer a Registered User is shown next to user ID.
As for the ratio of bogus auctions, there are some links on first page of the thread to a general eBay search of all auctions ending in the US Coins category in chronological order. If we narrow search to show all listing over $75, almost 50% of listing ending in the category at any given time meet the criteria laid out above!
Interesting... another theory I've entertained is that of "Inflating Assets". If you're trying to secure a loan and need collateral, having ebay accounts with "X Dollars" of merchandise (and sales to back up the claim) might be one way to show a potential lender that you have some form of collateral. Still doesn't make sense that one would spread merchandise over many accounts with little to no feedback though.
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
Keep in mind, we're talking about the US Coins category in it's entirety. Naturally, when you search for a specific type or date, the bogus listings won't show. This is because they only employ the most basic (and most favored by the algorithm) terms in their titles.
I'll leave you with another example of an auction title that is used over and over - "us coins auction error coins" - link:
Keep in mind, we're talking about the US Coins category in it's entirety. Naturally, when you search for a specific type or date, the bogus listings won't show. This is because they only employ the most basic (and most favored by the algorithm) terms in their titles.
I'll leave you with another example of an auction title that is used over and over - "us coins auction error coins" - link:
Yes, it's the same header on every single auction but some of the sellers have as much as "18" positive feedbacks and from ebay buyers with feedback in the 100's to 1000's... sort of throws a wrench into the "0" feedback sellers only selling to "0" feedback buyers (shills)... unless they're "in" on it. Not quite certain what exactly they're "in" on...
I still use ebay, but I find d I've been buying less and less from that platform and buying more at shows and known dealers with an online presence...
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
I read a lot of those auction pages with the characteristics listed above. I have a thread about the funny language in them. I have seen a couple of these sellers who have extensive completed sales of pocket change at the fantasy prices with one bid (thousands of dollars of sales). I knew that there were shenanigans, but until someone suggested money laundering, it made little sense to me. I will post one if I come across a clear example.
I check sellers’ other items and then apply the sold filter.
Here are two examples of sold listings with that exact title:
Notice how both sellers have no prior record of sales and both bidders are no longer registered users. This lends credence to the laundering theory.
Except that you could launder 100x more money through a BTC transaction with almost no trail.
It makes little sense as money laundering. You would have to pay with already laundered money. You can't use cash on ebay.
About the only thing you could be doing is using stolen Visa gift cards to turn them into cash. But you're doing it in public with a digital paper trail.
And if it is money laundering, why aren't 100% of the listings actually sold instead of 1%?
Now you're on to something. Say the criminal organization has a database of stolen credit card numbers:
Set up an auction with fake account. Bid on auction with another fake account. Pay for item with stolen credit card. Cash out. Fake buyer is kicked off eBay once the credit card is reported stolen.
Except, again, why aren't 100% of the listings resulting in actual sales?
Keep in mind, we're talking about the US Coins category in it's entirety. Naturally, when you search for a specific type or date, the bogus listings won't show. This is because they only employ the most basic (and most favored by the algorithm) terms in their titles.
I'll leave you with another example of an auction title that is used over and over - "us coins auction error coins" - link:
Yes, it's the same header on every single auction but some of the sellers have as much as "18" positive feedbacks and from ebay buyers with feedback in the 100's to 1000's... sort of throws a wrench into the "0" feedback sellers only selling to "0" feedback buyers (shills)... unless they're "in" on it. Not quite certain what exactly they're "in" on...
I still use ebay, but I find d I've been buying less and less from that platform and buying more at shows and known dealers with an online presence...
OK - there appear to be a few clueless amateur sellers in the mix here. These people either listed with Sell one Like This, copy-pasted from an existing auction title, or eBay automatically generated this title for them in List an Item.
I read a lot of those auction pages with the characteristics listed above. I have a thread about the funny language in them. I have seen a couple of these sellers who have extensive completed sales of pocket change at the fantasy prices with one bid (thousands of dollars of sales). I knew that there were shenanigans, but until someone suggested money laundering, it made little sense to me. I will post one if I come across a clear example.
I check sellers’ other items and then apply the sold filter.
Here are two examples of sold listings with that exact title:
Notice how both sellers have no prior record of sales and both bidders are no longer registered users. This lends credence to the laundering theory.
Except that you could launder 100x more money through a BTC transaction with almost no trail.
It makes little sense as money laundering. You would have to pay with already laundered money. You can't use cash on ebay.
About the only thing you could be doing is using stolen Visa gift cards to turn them into cash. But you're doing it in public with a digital paper trail.
And if it is money laundering, why aren't 100% of the listings actually sold instead of 1%?
Now you're on to something. Say the criminal organization has a database of stolen credit card numbers:
Set up an auction with fake account. Bid on auction with another fake account. Pay for item with stolen credit card. Cash out. Fake buyer is kicked off eBay once the credit card is reported stolen.
Except, again, why aren't 100% of the listings resulting in actual sales?
Maybe flooding the system with thousands of these listings is a way of avoiding detection by eBay.
I see your point... valid. But I still have to ask... other than trolling for the numismatically challenged, what is the purpose? Or, is THAT the entire purpose? If i bid on the damaged dime in the first auction and won it for $600, and get the damaged dime, is that not a legitimate transaction?
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
@lkenefic said:
I see your point... valid. But I still have to ask... other than trolling for the numismatically challenged, what is the purpose? Or, is THAT the entire purpose? If i bid on the damaged dime in the first auction and won it for $600, and get the damaged dime, is that not a legitimate transaction?
We are almost certain there is no actual transfer of merchandise in the instance of sales - namely because the bidders on these listings are no longer registered users. So far, using bogus auctions as a means to utilize stolen credit cards is the best guess as to the purpose.
I read a lot of those auction pages with the characteristics listed above. I have a thread about the funny language in them. I have seen a couple of these sellers who have extensive completed sales of pocket change at the fantasy prices with one bid (thousands of dollars of sales). I knew that there were shenanigans, but until someone suggested money laundering, it made little sense to me. I will post one if I come across a clear example.
I check sellers’ other items and then apply the sold filter.
Here are two examples of sold listings with that exact title:
Notice how both sellers have no prior record of sales and both bidders are no longer registered users. This lends credence to the laundering theory.
Except that you could launder 100x more money through a BTC transaction with almost no trail.
It makes little sense as money laundering. You would have to pay with already laundered money. You can't use cash on ebay.
About the only thing you could be doing is using stolen Visa gift cards to turn them into cash. But you're doing it in public with a digital paper trail.
And if it is money laundering, why aren't 100% of the listings actually sold instead of 1%?
Now you're on to something. Say the criminal organization has a database of stolen credit card numbers:
Set up an auction with fake account. Bid on auction with another fake account. Pay for item with stolen credit card. Cash out. Fake buyer is kicked off eBay once the credit card is reported stolen.
Except, again, why aren't 100% of the listings resulting in actual sales?
Because that would be suspicious. Nobody sells 100% of what they have on eBay. What you want to do is hide your criminal activity amongst thousands of auctions with different usernames for sellers and buyers. You may want one sale per 100 postings. If you are posting thousands of items under different accounts using bots, then you can easily spread things out so that they are harder to track. You need to think like a criminal.
As far as posters making assumptions about eBay like that it reminds me of astrophysics - multiple theories floating around. Take a look at some of them on utube.
The auctions / items I have purchased off eBay no problems. Of course I don’t go around buying raw gold or expensive raw coins. There are people that are ignorant or where the elevator doesn’t exactly go to the top that are going to get ripped. It’s a terrible situation in any venue. Become an expert in your area. The scary thing I have seen are the expensive fake coins in convincing fake slabs shown here from that venue. Beware of AT / problem toner coins too. Friend sent about 2 dozen slabbed toners to CAC none stickered. I was astounded but not being a toner guy glad not in them.
Comments
I don't get those in my searches. And they don't actually bother me much, for the simple reason that anyone who pays big bucks for a common, almost-worthless, coin has more money than brains, and is just looking for ways to waste money.
Yes, I understand that mine is not a kind take on it, but there are so many serious things to be bothered about in this world, and people throwing away money on garbage coins doesn't reach that level, to me.
I hear you. However, the counter argument is that those flush fools might have ended up collectors of they weren't disillusioned at being taken.
Still, a developed world problem.
Just looked at today's smattering of common Sacagawea dollars being offered as Cheerios dollars, and the money laundering scheme explanation make sense.
If anybody wants to pursue the matter, start keeping records of the backgrounds of the pictures to see if you can get the same background on multiple pictures from allegedly different sellers in different locations.
As to the different locations, could those be some kind of code to make sure that the payment is going to the right account? If you tell somebody to pay $800 for the Cheerios dollar in Spitoon, West Dakota they are not going to accidentally buy the Cheerios dollar in Hog Breath, South Oklahoma.
I buy a lot of coins off ebay, but it definitely has its fair share of scams and illegal activity. Some don't even try to hide it. I was shocked when this came up in my coin search.
Philippians 4:4-7
Interesting
Probably the solution is for ebay to go back to charging a listing fee.
Then those would-be sellers with their fantasy asking prices might think twice when they see they are paying money to list stuff and never get any sales.
And the sellers with realistic prices would get more visibility for their items, once the number of junk listings decreases.
I believe the problem is related to the Tiffany (NJ) Inc. v. eBay Inc. lawsuit, which Tiffany lost. Basically, Tiffany sued ebay for allowing sellers to offer fake Tiffany products. Ebay claimed they were just a middleman, and thus they were not responsible for the authenticity of the items they allowed to be sold. The courts agreed with ebay, and afterward ebay removed a lot of their staff that worked on removing fraudulent listings. I've stopped reporting bogus listings, because ebay doesn't take action anymore.
If you consider that most of the merchandise being stolen in bulk from retail stores is being sold on ebay and amazon, the percentage of fraudulent sales is much higher. Forever postage stamps on ebay for much less than USPS sells them for? lol
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
This is a bit deceitful. This forum alone gets counterfeits removed almost daily. And try and sell a Coach or Tiffany knockoff on ebay and you'll find out how quickly it disappears. Heck, just list a PCI slab and see how long it lasts.
You're missing the point entirely.
No. I completely and totally got YOUR point. Did you read the comment I was responding to? THAT poster, not you, claims that ebay doesn't take action because of the Tiffany suit. That is a lie.
You need to look at the whole discussion. You're completely missing the Tiffany comment.
I’ve seen it quite a bit of these over the moon prices, and have in particularly noticed the first example you posted. It’s annoying.
It's not a lie. but a reality. There used to be a dedicated person who handled coins and paper money reports. According to one of the members here, who conversed with her often, she was reassigned elsewhere shortly after the Tiffany decision. I doubt it was a coincidence.
@jmlanzaf said:
my bad, carry on.
They changed the way they handled counterfeits but they still pull them. They use a lot of bots. They pull a LOT of listings. But it's rather hard to get them all. And the listings your talking about in this thread are neither fake coins nor necessarily fraudulent listings. There's no policy against my listing pocket change at huge prices.
I remember messaging her about fraudulent coins, often with result, then as you say she went away.
We do still get results here from multiple reporting, but I suspect that a single complaint is automatically ignored.
Or it was a coincidence. But either way, it is A LIE that eBay doesn't take action. They take reaction on reports from this forum almost daily. The fact that they have a team doing it rather than a dedicated coin person is quite besides the point.
I would also point out that the Tiffany suit is quite different from the legalities and resulting policies. You can't even list Cuba coins on eBay - even Cuban postcards issued by the U.S. and canceled on U.S. warships - because of U.S. law. You can't list WW II German coins on eBay worldwide because of German prohibitions on Swastikas. You can't list counterfeit U.S. coins, because of U.S. law. And you can't list fake Tiffany (or Coach) by eBay policy. While they may not be financially liable for such listings, they do NOT tolerate such activity.
Go ahead. List fake Tiffany and see how long it lasts...
@jmlanzaf so there are people within the eBay organization who monitor the forum?
And the problem seems to be getting worse by the day. Today is especially bad - auctions ending w/in 3 minutes of each other, 2 different fraudulent sellers:
https://ebay.com/itm/334919099367
https://ebay.com/itm/304990918061
To get a real flavor of how the bot scam operates try entering the following into eBay's search:
Lot of Old US Coins Buffalo, Liberty Nickel, Steel Cent with 3 WHEAT LINCOLNS
https://ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313&_nkw=+Lot+of+Old+US+Coins+Buffalo%2C+Liberty+Nickel%2C+Steel+Cent+with+3+WHEAT+LINCOLNS&_sacat=0
Anyone notice anything strange?
Still better than esty.
Absolutely 🤠
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
I understand that your finding these but I’m not particularly smart but I do know what I collect. So I still love eBay and believe in personal responsibility. The most important thing is to remember….
Caveat Emptor or let the buyer be ware. Thanks 🙏
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Right on. A lot of folks have invoked Caveat Emptor as a response, but this is extraneous to the topic at hand - that is, a full-blown cyber attack on the eBay platform that focuses on the US Coins category.
Respectfully disagree. Personal responsibility seems to say “ the ball stops here”. I understand what your saying but I still personally find I’m ultimately responsible. Thanks 🙏
That said I appreciate your post and present it as an example. I participate here on the forum ( personal choice). I can open this thread (personal choice). I can read your responses ( personal choice). I can act on the information, again my choice. I believe we are more similar than not.
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
That's likely because those of us working aren't typically paying mind to what others are doing in the midst of the jungle.
No. People on this forum report listings to eBay who takes them down.
Does it focus on coins or is that the only place we're looking?
Personally, the listings shown are so ridiculous that they don't represent a problem as no one is buying them.
If people didn't buy them often enough to make it worthwhile-be it coins or anything else for that matter- then they wouldn't be listing them. Unfortunately, there are indeed people out there with more money than brains.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
It's not at all clear why they are listing them. I see almost no sales and those individuals seem to disappear from eBay. It could simply be trolling. After all, even this little old forum attracts its share of trolls.
This is not the case here.
At any given time there are 25+ listings with the exact title Lot of Old US Coins Buffalo, Liberty Nickel, Steel Cent with 3 WHEAT LINCOLNS
Of all these listings one is from a legit seller, the remaining 25 are all from different users with 0 seller feedback.
This is just one example of the scam group copying an auction title then listing bogus auctions from multiple accounts.
I read a lot of those auction pages with the characteristics listed above. I have a thread about the funny language in them. I have seen a couple of these sellers who have extensive completed sales of pocket change at the fantasy prices with one bid (thousands of dollars of sales). I knew that there were shenanigans, but until someone suggested money laundering, it made little sense to me. I will post one if I come across a clear example.
I check sellers’ other items and then apply the sold filter.
Here are two examples of sold listings with that exact title:
https://ebay.com/itm/394587411736
https://ebay.com/itm/166017368668
Notice how both sellers have no prior record of sales and both bidders are no longer registered users. This lends credence to the laundering theory.
There are few with those skills and brains, though.
I forgot to mention in my post that one seller had the same coins up for sale that were in the sold filtering that I had seen.
Some are rummage sellers who throw them up on the wall. Some are merely buyers who decide to do the same thing. But there are many of those code-looking alphanumeric usernames with scant sales and feedback.
Palms and fingers fill the photos on a lot of them.
$149.99 for a quarter...
What a deal
Might even submit it to PCGS
Except that you could launder 100x more money through a BTC transaction with almost no trail.
It makes little sense as money laundering. You would have to pay with already laundered money. You can't use cash on ebay.
About the only thing you could be doing is using stolen Visa gift cards to turn them into cash. But you're doing it in public with a digital paper trail.
And if it is money laundering, why aren't 100% of the listings actually sold instead of 1%?
Finally someone who understands.
Now you're on to something. Say the criminal organization has a database of stolen credit card numbers:
Set up an auction with fake account. Bid on auction with another fake account. Pay for item with stolen credit card. Cash out. Fake buyer is kicked off eBay once the credit card is reported stolen.
@jmlanzaf —You’re probably right. They ain’t arms dealers. I thought that I had considered it more deeply than I did. It takes cash.
I was thinking along this line, but couldn’t flesh it out.
Interesting posts but I think 20% of all ebay listings is a bit of a stretch. They're definitely "out there" but my search terms usually cull them out... unrealistic dealer offerings notwithstanding. ;-)
Seriously though, I'm not sure money laundering is at play since the vast majority of the listings referenced by the OP go unsold. However, we don't really know how many of these "accounts" link back to the same individual or group. But even if they did, the "dirty money" would have already been laundered to be used on ebay since everything is done electronically and there's a paper trail. We also have to report sales over $600 and a 1099 is issued... again, paper trail.
If there's a bot making them (accounts), conceivably they could fly under the radar and go below the $600 threshold but several of these have hammered at $1000 or more... counterintuitive if you're trying to not file paperwork.
As a "side hustle" having a bot create new accounts so you can market your pocket change or yard sale finds at exorbitant prices sort of makes sense. Under this scenario your expectations are pretty low... ANY sale is a win and at minimal effort by the seller. The $600 1099 threshold probably doesn't amount to much even if they file, which they likely won't.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Good points. We have mulled over the the "fishing for dummies" theory, but if you look at the auctions that do receive bids and click bid history, you'll see the buyers of these items are also bot accounts. What's interesting is that in most cases, the high bidder has a similar profile to the fake seller and No Longer a Registered User is shown next to user ID.
As for the ratio of bogus auctions, there are some links on first page of the thread to a general eBay search of all auctions ending in the US Coins category in chronological order. If we narrow search to show all auctions priced over $75, almost 50% meet the criteria laid out above!
Interesting... another theory I've entertained is that of "Inflating Assets". If you're trying to secure a loan and need collateral, having ebay accounts with "X Dollars" of merchandise (and sales to back up the claim) might be one way to show a potential lender that you have some form of collateral. Still doesn't make sense that one would spread merchandise over many accounts with little to no feedback though.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Maybe...
Keep in mind, we're talking about the US Coins category in it's entirety. Naturally, when you search for a specific type or date, the bogus listings won't show. This is because they only employ the most basic (and most favored by the algorithm) terms in their titles.
I'll leave you with another example of an auction title that is used over and over - "us coins auction error coins" - link:
https://ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=us+coins+auction+error+coins&_in_kw=4&_sacat=0
Notice anything strange?
Yes, it's the same header on every single auction but some of the sellers have as much as "18" positive feedbacks and from ebay buyers with feedback in the 100's to 1000's... sort of throws a wrench into the "0" feedback sellers only selling to "0" feedback buyers (shills)... unless they're "in" on it. Not quite certain what exactly they're "in" on...
I still use ebay, but I find d I've been buying less and less from that platform and buying more at shows and known dealers with an online presence...
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Except, again, why aren't 100% of the listings resulting in actual sales?
OK - there appear to be a few clueless amateur sellers in the mix here. These people either listed with Sell one Like This, copy-pasted from an existing auction title, or eBay automatically generated this title for them in List an Item.
But narrow the search to show items over $20 and not a single one is legit: https://ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=us+coins+auction+error+coins&_in_kw=4&_sacat=0&_udlo=20&_sop=1
Maybe flooding the system with thousands of these listings is a way of avoiding detection by eBay.
I see your point... valid. But I still have to ask... other than trolling for the numismatically challenged, what is the purpose? Or, is THAT the entire purpose? If i bid on the damaged dime in the first auction and won it for $600, and get the damaged dime, is that not a legitimate transaction?
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
We are almost certain there is no actual transfer of merchandise in the instance of sales - namely because the bidders on these listings are no longer registered users. So far, using bogus auctions as a means to utilize stolen credit cards is the best guess as to the purpose.
Because that would be suspicious. Nobody sells 100% of what they have on eBay. What you want to do is hide your criminal activity amongst thousands of auctions with different usernames for sellers and buyers. You may want one sale per 100 postings. If you are posting thousands of items under different accounts using bots, then you can easily spread things out so that they are harder to track. You need to think like a criminal.
As far as posters making assumptions about eBay like that it reminds me of astrophysics - multiple theories floating around. Take a look at some of them on utube.
The auctions / items I have purchased off eBay no problems. Of course I don’t go around buying raw gold or expensive raw coins. There are people that are ignorant or where the elevator doesn’t exactly go to the top that are going to get ripped. It’s a terrible situation in any venue. Become an expert in your area. The scary thing I have seen are the expensive fake coins in convincing fake slabs shown here from that venue. Beware of AT / problem toner coins too. Friend sent about 2 dozen slabbed toners to CAC none stickered. I was astounded but not being a toner guy glad not in them.