OGH morgan question

Morgan13

I am considering resubmitting this Morgan. I believe it is under graded. This was purchased along with others from a collection that has never been offered for sale by the original owner accept to me. The seller was the same person who submitted it. I see only some rubs and really no dings in the fields. It's tempting to crack it out but I wanted to post it here and get some opinions.
Do you think it's a 66 or better?

Morgan13

I'll get better pictures

gumby1234

Very nice looking. Clean cheek. Probably accurately graded. Why not just leave it in its current holder?

jerseyben

Most people are going to tell you to leave it in its current "rattler" holder (which is even more collectible than OGH). Also, looks like a 66 to me.

johnny010

No way
Leave it in the holder

Meltdown

That's a nice Morgan... I see just a little chatter on the obverse around 4 or 5 o'clock. A nice MS66 in a rattler holder is arguably just as valuable as a modern 67 slab.

Morgan13

I will leave it in the holder as suggested. I thought it might upgrade to a 67 in a modern holder. I know grading standards have loosened. When I compare it some of the true views and coins in 67 holders I felt it might have a shot at an upgrade. If I were to ever sell it and it was worthy of an upgrade there is a big jump in price.
However, when I ask for advice and I am given it I take it.
So it will stay in its current holder for now.
I have read that it can be sent in its holder for reconsideration. Does that apply to OGH as well?

ricko

I also recommend you leave it as is... If considering selling, you could list it at an MS67 price and extol the old rattler holder as well as the upgrade potential. Cheers, RickO

humanssuck

If you truly think it should upgrade, I would send it to CAC. If they think it will upgrade, you get a gold sticker and a very nice price increase. Either way you keep the rattler holder which also has some market value.

airplanenut

I think it's partly the photos, but with the hazy stuff behind the bust, the abrasions in front of the neck, and the overall lack of a bit of oomph to the coin, I don't think it would be a 67. The coin would probably be worth more in a new 66+ or certainly 67 holder compared to an old 66 holder, but it would be worth less in a current 66 holder. If it's really that nice (and 66+ might not cut it) sent it to CAC. But at least as I see it, I wouldn't crack that coin.

asheland

I’d definitely leave it in the rattler. 👍

Cool find.

Morgan13

Any abrasions that you see are really light brushes with the frost. I like the green holders better anyway. This particular holder is in perfect condition. Like the day it was slabbed. That's one thing that stops me from cracking it out.

ifthevamzarockin

I don't see that one getting a 67, it is much better left in the rattler holder.

Nice coin & nice holder!

coinbuf

You have a really nice coin but the light abrasions I see on the obv will result in no upgrade. However, much like your thread on grading a Morgan the photos are not the best to judge from. If you are really convinced and want to find out then you could use the reconsideration option that PCGS offers. Here is a link that explains that service, in a nutshell you can submit in that holder without cracking and it will not be removed unless the coin receives a higher grade. The one problem with this is that if you only get a + upgrade you may only be at a wash value wise considering all the costs of the service and the loss of the old rattler holder.

https://pcgs.com/reconsideration

Just as a point of clarification, you keep using the term "OGH" when referring to this holder. What you have is called the "Rattler" holder not an OGH. Here is a link to the PCGS museum of holders, when most collectors use the term "OGH" they are referring to the holders that start with the Gen 2.1 thru 3.1. You have a Gen 1.2 commonly called a rattler.

https://pcgs.com/holdermuseum

blaircountycoin

I also agree you should keep this in the rattler holder. Also I would make a note that if you ever decide to sell it, check closer as to what number VAM this coin is. It definitely has the markers of one, but the pictures are not close enough to tell which one. The easy ones I see are the line coming off the neck and the line on the reverse from the top of the wing to the n on the motto on the reverse. Nice coin!

ProofCollection

Too many holder aficionados will say to keep it in the same holder because they decry ever breaking a coin out of an old holder. I feel it would upgrade to 66+ and might have a shot at 67. You should send it in for reconsideration where they leave it in the slab unless it upgrades. IMO, a + or a 67 is worth more than the plastic it's held in.
It is kind of a myth that you would need to crack it out to get an honest assessment. I just had a regrade submission of 4 coins where 2 upgraded a full point, 1 gained a + and the other grade stayed the same. While it seems like the old grade may influence the process, I think if the coin deserves it, you'll get it. And BTW, one of the grade bumps was a $2500 grade bump.

That said, a CAC sticker might be a good alternative.

Edited to add: You can also specify that you only want a new holder if it gets a 67. A + is worth ~$300 and a 67 is worth ~$1500. Far more than a CAC sticker (about $100) and "rattler premium."

Walkerfan

Leave it alone and submit to CAC. I like the old holder and it is not a slam dunk, with regard to it upgrading. I see a little haze, so a sticker would give you some peace of mind, as well as, making it more of a market performer.

MidLifeCrisis

Leave it as is. Submit it to CAC.

spyglassdesign

Agree with the others. Leave it in the Rattler, submit it to CAC... additionally I personally would only consider the reconsideration if the upgrade price jump is far more significant than the rattler plus CAC value, and you are certain it will upgrade. Either way, a failed reconsideration is just wasting money.

Honestly, the rattler has a certain appeal a 67 in a new holder won't have for SOME collectors. Also, if CAC green or gold beans it, it keeps its holder and shows that it's either under graded or very solid for its grade.

Nice coin btw!

DelawareDoons

Leave it alone, sell it to me. 😁

ProofCollection

@spyglassdesign said:
Agree with the others. Leave it in the Rattler, submit it to CAC... additionally I personally would only consider the reconsideration if the upgrade price jump is far more significant than the rattler plus CAC value, and you are certain it will upgrade. Either way, a failed reconsideration is just wasting money.

Risk/reward. $40 + $10 + shipping both ways is $80 or so (and costs reduce if combined with other coins) for a potential $1500 upside. Plus, you can have the coin Trueview'd while there (even in the slab if it doesn't upgrade). I'd say that's a decent risk/reward ratio bolstered by confidence of comparing the coin in-hand to the plate coins in Coin Facts to see how yours compares to make sure it has a good shot before you even send it.

Honestly, the rattler has a certain appeal a 67 in a new holder won't have for SOME collectors. Also, if CAC green or gold beans it, it keeps its holder and shows that it's either under graded or very solid for its grade.

Nice coin btw!

Revised:
Let's be real though. CAC gold on this MS66 is pretty unrealistic unless it's way better in-hand than the pictures. And if it does have a shot at MS68 it has a price guide value of $36k at which point a PCGS holder saying MS68 may be better than a gold CAC 66 rattler. And while a rattler it has a certain appeal to some collectors, that appeal won't pencil out to the approximate $1500 guide price difference if it qualifies for 67 and probably won't exceed the $300 difference a + gives you, if you trust the price guides.

Morgan13

It's a pretty nice coin that's all I know. I am spending time comparing it to the True Views of the same year and I like what I see in hand.
Pictures leave a lot to be desired unless you can image like a pro. I for one cannot. This coin has a few rubs on it here and there but no dings.

johnnyb

That’s a nice coin. I’d leave it in the holder and try for a CAC sticker. If you want to upgrade I’d try reconsideration and not crack it out. Old holder + CAC is a great combo with a strong following.

ProofCollection

If you do submit for reconsideration and it fails, make sure they still do an in-slab truview. Please post the results here and keep us updated.

HillbillyCollector

I’m in the crowd with sending to CAC.
I am in a similar situation with a 1877 DE in MS60 CAC in OGH. The coin is beautiful and would probably upgrade to a 61, maybe even 61+.
I’m keeping as is and if and when I ever sell it, any serious buyer will know straight away what’s in the holder.
Just a thought.👍

spyglassdesign

@ProofCollection said:

Revised:
Let's be real though. CAC gold on this MS66 is pretty unrealistic unless it's way better in-hand than the pictures. And if it does have a shot at MS68 it has a price guide value of $36k at which point a PCGS holder saying MS68 may be better than a gold CAC 66 rattler. And while a rattler it has a certain appeal to some collectors, that appeal won't pencil out to the approximate $1500 guide price difference if it qualifies for 67 and probably won't exceed the $300 difference a + gives you, if you trust the price guides.

To be clear, I was basing my comment on my opinion and the consensus that it wouldn't upgrade, at least not a full point. Obviously a 1 to 2 point upgrade could be worth it, and as you said risk/reward.

CAC is a relatively cheap way without risking losing the rattler over nothing to confirm it's either solid at grade and possibly earn a few more bones or possibly worthy of an upgrade. If it green's, the OP and any potential future buyer can be sure it's solid for the grade for minimal cost, and he probably shouldn't spend any more. If it just so happened to gold, then the op might have an argument for a reconsideration, HOWEVER, a gold with rattler could possibly be more valuable to the right buyer than a 67 in a new holder.

It all depends on finding the right buyer ultimately, and that can be tough.

One difficulty in comparing with the coinfacts images is they don't really show the luster, the op can only really compare surface condition (which is made tougher with ones with lots of toning). So just comparing against those photos is still a bit of guesswork in that regard.

BigMoose

Does anyone else think that the cheek and peripheral obverse from 6 to 8 o'clock may have been puttied?

AUandAG

+1, yes, the first thing I saw was a puttied coin.

bob
That makes me believe the seller is not the original owner and submitter.

ChrisH821

Does not look puttied to me. Nice coin