CAC/CACG without JA
cameonut2011
Posts: 10,169 ✭✭✭✭✭
It is true that JA has become a larger than life figure in numismatics and many have attributed CAC’s expertise and prestige directly to him. There is even a post mortem thread around here somewhere contemplating what the market and CAC will look like “post JA” which has me thinking a lot about recent events in New Jersey. It was ultimately revealed JA signed a 10 year contract with CAC the sticker company, and JA will notably remain the finalizer at CAC in New Jersey but not at CACG in Virginia and the rest of the graders will rotate.
1 - Will CACG reach acceptance without JA as its finalizer?
2 - Since it is obvious that CAC is looking to wind down its sticker operation in coming years, is this JA’s soft retirement?
3 - What will happen to CAC and CAC coins “post-JA” especially in light of CACG?
4 - Will CAC continue to be a market maker in stickered coins and if not, will the lack of price floor/CAC bid substantially affect prices for CACed coins?
Comments
It is gonna be a spectacle to watch over the next couple years for sure.
JA and his NJ crew have been remarkably consistent with their application of CAC stickers over the last ~15 years. I think everyone will be watching to see if CACG matches that consistency, and if they do, I predict the market will accept them as a reputable TPG. I have no reason to doubt they will accomplish this, however it is much easier to put a sticker on an existing slab than to put your own grade on a raw coin so I do expect a little bit more variability.
I really hate to see CAC get replaced by CACG. JA built something really special that the hobby needed and I’m not sure CACG provides the same utility to the regular consumer.
Oh, good, another CAC thread.
But at least it is a thoughtful one and meant to have a productive discussion.
And it is also a CACG thread. 🤣
I would continue to have trust & father in JA and his newest venture. He is a helping to make the hobby secure & safe. Give him the opportunity to make it happen. I for one will support his Herculean efforts.
How do you measure that consistency for CAC stickers?
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
JA spoke about carrying on the consistency in grade at the Virginia Beach facility, the training and oversight in a video posted in another thread. He believes the standard set by CAC will be maintained at CACG and they will be able to avoid grade-flation. He also mention a Legacy designation. I wasn't 100% clear on what that meant. Maybe something else more familiar with it can explain.
It will be like where is NTC or ACG.
Wow. Not even ICG or ANACS?
Why would they be - their material on eBay much less than ICG and Anacs. Do the math…ICG and Anacs still very active and the 2 other TPG accepted by ebay.
In case you didn’t know, there’s a lot more to the coin world than eBay and your personal coin dealings.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I have as much right as any other player here express my opinion. By far ebay the worlds largest coin show. Nor is Numismatic investment just about US Classic Coins.
You sure do. So why don’t you express it and quit editing your posts so frequently? Then maybe readers will be able to decipher what your opinion actually is?
If you want to compare CAC to ACG and NTC and to use the number of coins available for sale on eBay to form your opinions about those companies, as well as ICG and ANACS, go for it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes, however, remember that JA is the ultimate finalizer, if there is a tie that the graders at CACG cannot break JA will make the final call. Also He has said that he will spend some time in VA.
Maybe, maybe not, time will tell
Skyrocket to the moon.
I have not heard anything to the contrary so I am assuming that yes CAC will continue to be a market maker. And if not I do not see that affecting the prices of CAC approved coins, I expect them to continue to appreciate.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
4 - Will CAC continue to be a market maker in stickered coins and if not, will the lack of price floor/CAC bid substantially affect prices for CACed coins?
Probably the most salient point of this thread.
Pretty sure CAC will not be dealing in coins, and that JA will continue under his own name. Which doesn’t really matter because, unlike when CAC first opened its doors, there are now thousands of dealers eager to buy and sell the product.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Most of the inputs/opinions on this topic seem to be from a dealer's perspective (JMO). From a collector (rarely a seller), I would say CAC will remain a significant force for the foreseeable future, and based purely on the historical success of JA's business endeavors, I would say that CACG will become a significant player within three to five years. Cheers, RickO
Pcgs was synonymous with David Hall at the helm. We rarely see his name brought up here nowadays.
I would say it will be a similar situation with JA.
Re #1 in the earliest posts, JA said he would be spending a week a month in VA.
In the latest video, he tried to continue to refer to the two operations as NJ and VB (Virginia Beach), but admitted the broader market has been calling them CAC and CACG and he won't win.
Should JA retire, and NJ keep stickering, I'm sure we will start trying to figure out when a coin was stickered so we can timeline them.
L (Legacy) means a coin was stickered in a PCGS/NGC holder before 5 June 2023. It doesn't tell you the color of the bean, nor the grade in the legacy holder.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Perhaps those coins that were never submitted to CAC prior to JA's departure will now have added value since the assumption that any coin of value has already been submitted to CAC will no longer hold true.
How do you know? Same problem as today. CAC knows, but it's non-public proprietary data. Unless the holder is clearly post-CAC/CACG - i.e. whatever evolution is after the NFC chip, it COULD have been submitted...
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
And NGC has done pretty well since JA sold the company.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Some real haters in the coin community.
this is true but he had various leadership roles and public facing endeavors until the brand was significantly more established. They had an almost 20-year transition plan before he was showed the door.
IMHO all parties would be wise to develop a translon plan away from JA as well. Anything too abrupt could reverberate though the brands public perception.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I’m really curious to see if someone will fill the independent third party review void. I bet someone will try.
Oh, come on, be nice. Dislike is a better term....
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
The issue reminds me of a big east FB Natl Champ roster power house. Situation develops - Well liked Natl champ coach leaves, etc. An assistant steps up or they go get a coach off the coach carousel. Life goes on. But in this case coach still there, not to worry.
Gawd the football analogies are played out. So predictable and repetitive.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
That's just how he talks on bourse. He finds undervalued cliches and metaphors and sells for healthy profit on ebay or bourse. Not interested in homilies, not for him, don't do well on bourse.
Also, not interested definite article or indefinite article.
In Texas, and Houston particularly, the only topics worth discussing are football, golf and (sometimes) the weather.
What happens when JA is no longer in good health or in the business?
The thing is JA is linked to all three services including our hosts. The other services not founded by JA don't have the same reputation.
We don't know what we don't know. What we think we may know may change at a moments notice. So I think it is safe to say we don't know a whole lot about how this topic and the future will shape out.
Good point. There is a consistent precedent of coin grading services doing better after JA has left them.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
Ian, my guess is that you meant that to sound nicer than it turned out.🫢
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Doesn't the smiley face solve everything?
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
Not like a winkie would have. 😊
Um, I mean 😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Do you have something that’s better, original or just some borish 2 bit quote garbage. ROFL.
Oh that’s right your jeolous Astros won WS. So if u don’t like HTWN feel sorry for u. Go Astros!
All the better for JA if he remains an owner.
I live in Houston as you well know. Not sure how I would be “jealous” of the Astros. I’ve been to many an Astros game.
Thoughts...of someone who has never seen the inside of a coin show or store....
1)CACG never gets off the ground without JA providing instant credibility.
2)Am I reading that if JA leaves CACG, the biz will boom?
3)Too much speculation in this thread. If CAC stops stickering coins can I buy the remaining stickers?
4)Are the Rumors true that JA might retire to Va beach or the Jersey shore? No one knows where?
5)If JA retires will my DE's with the dark green labels fall in price below the gold melt price?
6)When my daughter inherits my coins will JA still be rating coins?
Finally, does JA really exist or only on videos?
didn't JA say one time that most if not almost all slabbed scarce coins or rarities had been evaluated by CAC? wouldn't that maintain the value of the CAC sticker on old slabs without those coins needing to go through the new service?
That’s actually pretty interesting. If the stickered coins continue to hold their own, it could mean a disproportionate amount of low end material their way. (Why break up the PCGS-CAC combo? ) And I doubt any one will pay to have CACG downgrade their coin unless the lower grade prices will support the current value in current plastic. This remains to be seen. Put another way, CAC/JA’s statement may have sabotaged CACG.
Interestingly Laura has NOT been very vocal about CACG in recent weeks unless I am missing something. I wonder if she too is watching and testing the waters before jumping onboard.
@cameonut2011 I thought it was posted that Laura was out with a serious medical issue.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
She had a kidney transplant. I'm not sure whether she is back to work yet or not.
Apparently, taking time off for surgery should be interpreted as a CACG commentary.
I was unaware. I saw some market reports from not that long ago and assumed she wrote them. I hope she makes a speedy recovery.