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Suggest an undervalued country to collect?

atomatom Posts: 428 ✭✭✭✭
edited June 8, 2023 8:14AM in World & Ancient Coins Forum

Looking for opportunity, with low competition in assembling sets from any non-US coinage.
Affordable coins, with potential for value appreciation. Even medals under consideration.
Could be of any era, any country, any series, any condition.

Would be appreciative of serious recommendations

Comments

  • RelaxnRelaxn Posts: 838 ✭✭✭✭

    Lol
    Don't think we all look for this?

    Look at growing and expanding 2nd and 3rd world countries.

  • PillarDollarCollectorPillarDollarCollector Posts: 4,599 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 8, 2023 11:56AM

    All I can say is look at the USA and analyze what racial group is rising in numbers and maybe just maybe one day (who knows if it will ever happen) this group will want to collect coins outside of the USA aka their ''mother country'' once they get better paying jobs.

    The Latino population seems to be on the rise in the USA maybe start there.

    It will have to start there with Americans collecting other countries. I doubt many in poorer nations care much for coin collecting when food and water are in short supply.

    This is just a possibility no one knows what will happen for sure. If you don't enjoy collect it I would suggest just not collecting them and find other investment avenues.

    Collecting interests: Mexico & Peru early milled 1 reales + 1796-1891 US dimes

    Sports: NHL & NFL

    Thank you Lord for another beautiful day!!!

  • PillarDollarCollectorPillarDollarCollector Posts: 4,599 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 8, 2023 11:51AM

    Getting a felling of a certain market can be a long long learning curve. Books can be expensive but worth it. And some books are rare and hence hard to locate.

    I would suggest collect ''dollars'' since this seems to always be the most in demand denomination even in the USA.

    Maybe look into Mexican 8 reales from 1732-1771. These are the earliest milled dollars (before that they are called cobs) from Mexico. Take time to analyze sales and use auction house like Heritage to collect data on past sales. The book to own for this series is Brad Yonaka's latest book. Will cost you about 150$-200$ only a few hundred were made. Maybe post a want to buy add for this book maybe someone here can help you land a copy.

    The key date is obviously the 1732 about 45 are known to exist in all grades. One just sold on Ebay in authentic grade for
    13 500$ US a little high in my opinion but they seem to pop only once every few years in any grade.

    Collecting interests: Mexico & Peru early milled 1 reales + 1796-1891 US dimes

    Sports: NHL & NFL

    Thank you Lord for another beautiful day!!!

  • PillarDollarCollectorPillarDollarCollector Posts: 4,599 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 8, 2023 2:21PM

    I like Russia as well they have great looking coins and early rubles aka dollars seem like a good series (find the right series you enjoy). But I don't think many Russians collect coins. I like those from the early 1700's up to a little before the 1800's. Learn the history of the country then decide what you like.

    Collecting interests: Mexico & Peru early milled 1 reales + 1796-1891 US dimes

    Sports: NHL & NFL

    Thank you Lord for another beautiful day!!!

  • PillarDollarCollectorPillarDollarCollector Posts: 4,599 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How about India I mean they have the 2nd worlds largest population. China coins went insane and still are in high demand. I know India has a lot of poverty and maybe it is not in their culture to collect coins. But if that ever changed that would be a massive market. I have zero experience with their coinage but I am sure there are ways to get information on their rarest and in most demand coins that are still cheap.

    Collecting interests: Mexico & Peru early milled 1 reales + 1796-1891 US dimes

    Sports: NHL & NFL

    Thank you Lord for another beautiful day!!!

  • tcollectstcollects Posts: 736 ✭✭✭✭

    @PillarDollarCollector said:
    I like Russia as well they have great looking coins and early rubles aka dollars seem like a good series (find the right series you enjoy). But I don't think many Russians collect coins. I like those from the early 1700's up to a little before the 1800's. Learn the history of the country then decide what you like.

    there are tons of rich collectors in Russia and the wealthy diaspora collect, too - not a cheap country to collect

    I've always thought Austrian coins were cheap for an already wealthy European country

  • IVBIVB Posts: 248 ✭✭✭

    What you guys think about Balkan countries (Kingdom of Yugoslavia, Montenegro, Albania)?

  • neildrobertsonneildrobertson Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Most of the countries are undervalued.

    IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
    "Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Rarity is where you don't find it! It is very difficult to see because it is rare. If you look at a small mountain of coins you just won't notice the coins that aren't there. Instead you'll see lots and lots of very common coins. As soon as people start looking for the coins that aren't there the price skyrockets.

    Right now I'm selling Russian, Chinese, and Indian coins that have skyrocketed and trying to hold the rest of my rarities for stronger prices. I'm a huge fan of rare moderns and especially in chU and Gem. Almost every country has made quite a few of these rarities. Right now my favorite are Brazil, most of Africa, and much of Europe. I believe the next prices to sky rocket will be in these areas.

    If I were younger I'd be trading and collecting Soviet coins since these have a lot of room left but it will be rockier going forward since some are relatively overpriced and many are underpriced. I'd be buying US clad Gem. In terms of moderns eastern Europe is OK but some have gone up quite a bit already.

    Moderns are trickier because attrition has been very hard on them but some were saved in massive quantities. A collector (or investor) must learn what's available and what isn't.

    Tempus fugit.
  • ELuisELuis Posts: 769 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2023 10:59AM

    I will go by a connection to the country or roots, in my case I tend to buy coins from Mexico because I like the old coins starting from Reales and up to some modern coins too. Then I will go for coins from Italy, then to Spain for any of the old peninsular coins Duros/Reales and others.

    I have had the chance in the past to buy in decent quantities like 60 coins the 1935 Mo 10 centavos.
    Have seen boxes with those Mexico 20 Centavos Teotihuacan, that back then I did not know or like, so I passed.
    On my last visit to a coin show, there was a guy with a large box with those 8 Reales Oaxaca and was selling each at 50 bucks.

    Lately I been buying modern coins in gem from different countries nothing specific.

    My 2ct.

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,671 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fair question with unlimited possibilities. I am not one to look in the crystal ball and suggest that the coinage of one country is more deserving than another. Art, history and design and capturing that moment in time when they were minted is a priority for me. And one needs a huge net to serve justice as to the totality of what really exists.

    Think about what survived as so much more of modern coinage has simply been prematurely melted in part because a market/demand did not exist. At some point that changes and timing is critical.

    Then there is the older coinage from 17th through 19th centuries. And while there is interest, that interest really does not drill down into what survived and in what state of preservation. It would appear that various regions of the world have attracted interested, but it seems somewhat problematic if that interest is more of a heard mentality based on what can be promoted or what is truly rare. And that is a distinction worth making.

    Turning full circle back to art and design, some coins have what almost can be described as a cult following for what it is based on artistic merit. The Gothic Crown and Florin are among the big winners here but there are others that should be easily recognized for what they are... A numismatic/artistic masterpiece that withstands the test of time...A coin as well as various art medals that speak volumes for what was possible. And such items should capture the attention and imagination as to where we have been collectively and what is truly possible.

    I will look back at this post with regret that I did not spend more time on Art Medals which really is the sleeping giant in the question posed in the OP.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • kruegerkrueger Posts: 792 ✭✭✭

    British Honduras. Latin American country, very low mintages . Challenge to find. Raredates still can be seen.
    Once the rare dates disappear it's too late to accumulate as what few rare dates were seen today are gone tomorrow. Then much hunt time, competion ,and money will be required.
    Go for the rare dates first as time will make them rarer and more unavailable. If not then All that you will find with much looking will be scratchy /details pieces at high prices.

  • FrazFraz Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We’re I to look for an under appreciated set to start, I would consider the population of coin collectors in a country, the market for the target currency there, the disposable wealth in that country, and where the coins are minted.

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Japan's economy has been stagnating for decades. If they come roaring back now we'll learn that many of their moderns are grossly underappreciated.

    Tempus fugit.
  • jgennjgenn Posts: 734 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Why would you consider collecting coins from some place and time just because you think they are undervalued? Are you just in it for the potential appreciation?

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tcollects said:

    @PillarDollarCollector said:
    I like Russia as well they have great looking coins and early rubles aka dollars seem like a good series (find the right series you enjoy). But I don't think many Russians collect coins. I like those from the early 1700's up to a little before the 1800's. Learn the history of the country then decide what you like.

    there are tons of rich collectors in Russia and the wealthy diaspora collect, too - not a cheap country to collect

    I've always thought Austrian coins were cheap for an already wealthy European country

    There is no demonstrated causation between the price level and economic affluence. Some level of affluence is a necessary pre-condition, but no amount of money will make someone an actual coin collector, only a buyer for financial speculation. It's a commonly believed myth but easily refuted. There is and has been no shortage of affluent people in every country in the world, especially in most of the developing world where the supply of better quality most preferred coinage is so pitifully low.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Fraz said:
    We’re I to look for an under appreciated set to start, I would consider the population of coin collectors in a country, the market for the target currency there, the disposable wealth in that country, and where the coins are minted.

    The size of the collector base matters, somewhat - but it's mostly if not entirely the collecting culture. That's the primary difference between US collecting and most everywhere else.

    In most or all developing countries, there is an insufficient supply of "investment" type quality coinage due to the lack of collecting in the past. There won't be any meaningful scale within a relevant timeframe to anyone reading this thread because it doesn't exist in any meaningful supply. In most of Europe, the supply is too large for the local collector base, depending upon someone's definition of "investment" eligible coinage.

    One strategy would be to buy coins most preferred by US collectors, since they are the primary buyers for most of it anyway. Financially, this also depends upon how much it's already increased.

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,818 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Israel

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2023 5:00PM

    @Fraz said:
    We’re I to look for an under appreciated set to start, I would consider the population of coin collectors in a country, the market for the target currency there, the disposable wealth in that country, and where the coins are minted.

    And had you done that 40 years ago (heck, even 20 years ago), you would not have started collecting Mexico and missed out on a great run. I'm not saying that the financial aspect is top of mind for everyone, however. I'm just refuting your suggestion that current events imply future events.

  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2023 5:12PM

    @WCC said:

    @Fraz said:
    We’re I to look for an under appreciated set to start, I would consider the population of coin collectors in a country, the market for the target currency there, the disposable wealth in that country, and where the coins are minted.

    The size of the collector base matters, somewhat - but it's mostly if not entirely the collecting culture. That's the primary difference between US collecting and most everywhere else.

    In most or all developing countries, there is an insufficient supply of "investment" type quality coinage due to the lack of collecting in the past. There won't be any meaningful scale within a relevant timeframe to anyone reading this thread because it doesn't exist in any meaningful supply. In most of Europe, the supply is too large for the local collector base, depending upon someone's definition of "investment" eligible coinage.

    One strategy would be to buy coins most preferred by US collectors, since they are the primary buyers for most of it anyway. Financially, this also depends upon how much it's already increased.

    I don't even think it's "collecting culture." More like interest in their own history.

    The collecting gene is something that you have or don't have. And it spans cultures and geographies. But if people are interested in their own history, then the collectors among them will collect that history.

    One thing to think about when collecting undervalued areas is: is the country undervalued due to the unavailability of coins in your geography (not as critical now with online auctions) or is it undervalued due to lack of interest? If the former, it might not be fun to collect since you will not be buying many coins to feed your addiction. Ideally, you want the later, and hoping that popularity will come later (or not if you don't care about the economic angle).

    How about India? While it's not particularly undervalued, it's generally not crazy expensive either. Not that there are not rarities. There are plenty. But it's such an expansive area, you can do it for the rest of your life.

    And it has a very rich numismatic history (and history in general, for that matter). It has multitudes of objects and avenues to collect. And it has economic potential due to it's population and rising economic tide.

    Another thing going for India is an abundance of references--books and auction catalogs of reference collections.

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,818 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe French :)

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,818 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2023 10:00PM

    @bidask said:
    Maybe French :)

    For example I just purchased this french crown:

    What to like about it ?

    Napoleon 5 Francs L'An 12 (1803/1804)-D AU55 NGC, Lyon mint, KM659.1, Gad-577. One-year type struck during Napoleon's time as Premier Consul. One of only three examples graded at NGC and the first we have brought to auction, this example displays a retoned patina of amber, cobalt, and anthracite and a near comprehensive strike save for a moment of weakness on the central reverse. We note some adjustment marks in that area, as well as a die crack on the bust, issues easily overlooked in light of the scarcity of this mint/date issue.

    Mintage ...14,000 plus.

    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/de-la-madeleine-napolon-ier--580823683195111868/

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Collect coin just like buying stock, the low will go lower the high will go higher because that’s where the money flow

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2023 5:49PM

    If you really want under value you can buy Iran or Cuba. No one wants to buy them

  • ElmhurstElmhurst Posts: 767 ✭✭✭

    Maybe Uruguay. A lot of wealthy Americans and Europeans are moving to there. I was going to do it myself, but decided at my age it’s not worth the bother. But I’ll still keep my coins from there.

  • 1984worldcoins1984worldcoins Posts: 595 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2023 9:04PM

    @bidask said:
    Maybe French :)

    Oh yeah, I have lots of almost rare piedforts and other stuff! Beautiful and undervalued coins, ESSAI's with low mintage, piedforts with very low mintage and in precious metals and so on. (all 1984 ofcourse). I got ESSAI's (trial strikes) from other yeras too, if those are the trials for the 1984 coins. For the moment, those are still affordable.

    Coinsof1984@martinb6830 on twitter

  • PillarDollarCollectorPillarDollarCollector Posts: 4,599 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Germany

    Collecting interests: Mexico & Peru early milled 1 reales + 1796-1891 US dimes

    Sports: NHL & NFL

    Thank you Lord for another beautiful day!!!

  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,663 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Portugal, Spain, a lot of old world gold coins can be had for just above melt. Poland is an unusual country, I don't know if anyone collects polish coins.

    image
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rec78 said:
    Portugal, Spain, a lot of old world gold coins can be had for just above melt. Poland is an unusual country, I don't know if anyone collects polish coins.

    I don't normally think of junk world silver as a good place to buy but many modern silver coins are being destroyed. Central banks often end up with most of the circulating coinage and then it is melted. Even the Spanish 100P is a case in point.

    Of course the more collectable and better date coins always have potential but these do require a lot of new interest. Even the massive amount of new interest in Indian coins has had very little effect on the older silver coins because they tend to be widely available.

    Tempus fugit.
  • sylsyl Posts: 885 ✭✭✭

    Late 19th and early 20th century Philippines

  • RegistryCoinRegistryCoin Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭✭

    Some U. S. Philippines Coins

  • SimonWSimonW Posts: 563 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bolivia

    I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pruebas said:

    I don't even think it's "collecting culture." More like interest in their own history.

    The collecting gene is something that you have or don't have. And it spans cultures and geographies. But if people are interested in their own history, then the collectors among them will collect that history.

    I use collecting culture as I cannot think of another term. This is a financially directed thread, so I don't think it's primarily history. The difference in the price level between the US and most other developed country coin markets has to be more than that. I'm not aware that US collectors find their history more interesting than say, Europeans. In Europe, there is (usually) more or far more variety to choose from, so the demand for an individual coin, series or segment is usually lower. But the price variance seems to be predominantly due to financially motivated buying which exists minimally to not at all in these markets and where it's evident, it's probably substantially if not mostly attributable to US based buyers outbidding local collectors.

    @pruebas said:

    One thing to think about when collecting undervalued areas is: is the country undervalued due to the unavailability of coins in your geography (not as critical now with online auctions) or is it undervalued due to lack of interest? If the former, it might not be fun to collect since you will not be buying many coins to feed your addiction. Ideally, you want the later, and hoping that popularity will come later (or not if you don't care about the economic angle).

    Extreme scarcity is a negative for prices most of the time because most coins lack sufficient collector appeal and aren't candidates for financially motivated buying. I believe this to be true (at least somewhat) for the coinage I primarily collect and others with a similar profile. Most collectors may not want to collect really common coins (however they define it - whether generically, some specialization, or specific quality) but they usually aren't interested in collecting an area where there is little or nothing to buy either. Or, it's overwhelmingly "dreck" as it is with much of Latin coinage.

    Bolivia Republic decimal coinage is an example of "lack of interest", though much of it is not common either.

    @pruebas said:

    How about India? While it's not particularly undervalued, it's generally not crazy expensive either. Not that there are not rarities. There are plenty. But it's such an expansive area, you can do it for the rest of your life.

    And it has a very rich numismatic history (and history in general, for that matter). It has multitudes of objects and avenues to collect. And it has economic potential due to it's population and rising economic tide.

    Another thing going for India is an abundance of references--books and auction catalogs of reference collections.

    I have agreed in the past that India has potential, maybe even for some Republic (1950 and later) coinage.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SimonW said:
    Bolivia

    Maybe the Bolivar portrait coinage somewhat, primarily gold and 8 soles.

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,818 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2023 3:31PM

    I have had ( through the make an offer program Heritage ) 4 offers on crowns II bought in the last 2-21/2 years by auction .

    I made about a 35% profit on each coin and reluctantly sold them all .

    That is after paying Heritage their 10%

    Peru , Italy ,Spain , Uruguay crowns

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,818 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To me it doesn’t matter whether there is little or more demand from US collectors or collectors from a particular country in which a coin was minted .

    I truly believe classic gem crowns are a bargain to buy at these levels 😄

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




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