Second "VDB V" 2023 Lincoln cent die reported.

CaptHenway

Over on Facebook it is reported that a second 2023 Lincoln cent die with a thin V to the right of the VDB has been reported, this time with the extra V a bit further right.

Does anybody here have the photographic capability to take a closeup of the VDB on a normal 2022 Lincoln cent and the same on a normal 2023 Lincoln cent and do an overlay, using the back point of the shoulder as a reference point? I am not expecting any differences, but am trying to figure out what happened and wish to rule out any possibility that the VDB was moved somehow.

TD

OAKSTAR

CaptHenway

Looking at the pictures on Facebook, if you take the length of the "VDB" as one unit of length, the extra "V" was about 0.6 of that unit to the right of the B on the original variety, while on the new variety the extra "V" is about 1.6 of that unit to the right of the B. These are of course rough estimations eyeballed from the pictures, but the difference is noticeable.

Still no idea what caused the extra "V" markings.

gumby1234

Is there any way you could post the pictures here?

in2Coins

@OAKSTAR said:

+1

CaptHenway

Not my pictures to post.

jesbroken

Here are some terrible photos off google and Coin Community. Evidently their are quite a few. One poster on CC claims to have 20 out of 10 rolls. If you have one, I would sell it quickly if I could. It bothers me when all the photos I can find are blurry, why?
Jim

DCW

The second V looks raised and not incused, no?

emeraldATV

Maybe just my thought, NOT FROM THE SAME FONT !
or their changing it, and they changed their mind in the middle (1/3 rd actually) of the thought.
Don't ask me. I had trouble in first grade with my penmanship of the same standard. Even kept me after school.

ricko

OK... Now I will be hunting through my pocket change and cent jar.... Stay tuned... Cheers, RickO

Manorcourtman

If it’s from one or two dies used there are probably 50,000 plus out there, no? What’s the average die life these days?

TomB

The vertex angle of the V's do not appear to be the same.

coinbuf

Mint employee hijinks??

BuffaloIronTail

@DCW said:
The second V looks raised and not incused, no?

It doesn't look to be the size or shape of the correct "V".

CaptHenway

Does anyone else have one of the "Far V" coins that they can take pictures of?

bigmountainlion

Here is a YouTube video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ndsIV41OMM

bigmountainlion

Seems to be out there for months already.

CaptHenway

That is the original finding. There is a new finding with the apparent extra "V" much further to the right, near Lincoln's lapel. This thread is about the new finding.

PerryHall

Will the major grading services consider this variety significant enough to warrant being shown on the slab label?

CaptHenway

@PerryHall said:
Will the major grading services consider this variety significant enough to warrant being shown on the slab label?

Don't know yet.

DCW

@CaptHenway said:

@PerryHall said:
Will the major grading services consider this variety significant enough to warrant being shown on the slab label?

Don't know yet.

I think we have an answer:

OAKSTAR

Looks like someone requested the rev. of the coin be put on the front of the slab.

BuffaloIronTail

@OAKSTAR said:
Looks like someone requested the rev. of the coin be but on the front of the slab.

I don't get it. Why?

Pete

keyman64

This is interesting to me. I get so little change these days but I checked a small pile of change on my desk and I do not have any 2023 cents.

Without knowing for sure, I would chalk this up to US Mint shenanigans. I wonder if the US Mint Philly Employee was identified and what the repercussions were. Anyone figure this out?

Manifest_Destiny

@BuffaloIronTail said:

@OAKSTAR said:
Looks like someone requested the rev. of the coin be but on the front of the slab.

I don't get it. Why?

Pete

Reverse facing is default for shield cents. You have to request front facing. But your question is valid, it just needs to be aimed at the TPG's.

OAKSTAR

@keyman64 said:
This is interesting to me. I get so little change these days but I checked a small pile of change on my desk and I do not have any 2023 cents.

Without knowing for sure, I would chalk this up to US Mint shenanigans. I wonder if the US Mint Philly Employee was identified and what the repercussions were. Anyone figure this out?

If anyone can figure it out, @CaptHenway can. There have been several "what appear to be" intentional die/design modification during a production of a series over the years, with little to no explanation why.

I've even submitted FOIA requests to the US Treasury and Mint to try and track down information, records or documentation why.

OAKSTAR

@BuffaloIronTail said:

@OAKSTAR said:
Looks like someone requested the rev. of the coin be but on the front of the slab.

I don't get it. Why?

Pete

If @Manifest_Destiny is correct and the Rev. facing is default for shield cents, I would have requested NGC to put the Obv. on the front of that slab.....since that's where the extra V is. I've requested TPG'ers put my speared eagles (reverse of the coin) facing forward on the slabs, since that's where the die gouge is located.

BuffaloIronTail

@Manifest_Destiny said:

@BuffaloIronTail said:

@OAKSTAR said:
Looks like someone requested the rev. of the coin be but on the front of the slab.

I don't get it. Why?

Pete

Reverse facing is default for shield cents. You have to request front facing. But your question is valid, it just needs to be aimed at the TPG's.

I didn't know that......................

Pete

Fraz

From which mint?

CaptHenway

@Fraz said:
From which mint?

Philadelphia

OAKSTAR

I'm still looking and checking.

CaptHenway

Still only the one report of the "Far V" die, and I can't get good pictures of it.

Joe_360

it will be a long time before a 2023 Philly makes its way to CA...

OAKSTAR

Still looking and checking.

jacrispies

@DCW said:

@CaptHenway said:

@PerryHall said:
Will the major grading services consider this variety significant enough to warrant being shown on the slab label?

Don't know yet.

I think we have an answer:

I saw this coin a few days ago, maybe I can snap a few closeups if needed.

The coin is super ugly, it looks like someone sneezed on it.

OAKSTAR

CaptHenway

Whatever happened to the second die with the alleged extra "V" further to the right? I have still not yet seen good pictures of it.

D808LF

I'd be talking to a few Mint employees - specifically Valerie, Vick, Virginia, Vincent, Vanessa, Vernon...

may

Is this one? I found it a couple of months ago and put it in a flip.

asheland

Pretty interesting I must say. 👍

cladking

@Manorcourtman said:
If it’s from one or two dies used there are probably 50,000 plus out there, no? What’s the average die life these days?

Sure, there will probably be nearly million of each produced but the attrition on these little worthless slugs is incredible. Even before production is complete tens of thousands will be tossed in the trash or dropped in parking lots.

It might also be noted that in recent years the vast majority of brand new pennies are badly spotted and tarnished. When interest on these fades because they are too common there will be almost no nice examples and most in circulation will have been destroyed in the intervening months.

may

@cladking said:
It might also be noted that in recent years the vast majority of brand new pennies are badly spotted and tarnished. When interest on these fades because they are too common there will be almost no nice examples and most in circulation will have been destroyed in the intervening months.

That’s the problem with newer coins , they circulate very badly and get ugly fast.

D808LF

There are a bunch of them on eBay. There are smoe that have the V close and far from VDB. I saw one with two V's and one with a V just up on the edge of Lincoln's shoulder.

CaptHenway

@Ownerofawheatiehorde said:
Is this one? I found it a couple of months ago and put it in a flip.

Yes. That is the main variety. Others are reported, and I was hoping to get a picture of the other variety(s).

cladking

@Ownerofawheatiehorde said:

@cladking said:
It might also be noted that in recent years the vast majority of brand new pennies are badly spotted and tarnished. When interest on these fades because they are too common there will be almost no nice examples and most in circulation will have been destroyed in the intervening months.

That’s the problem with newer coins , they circulate very badly and get ugly fast.

Clad never used to do this. In the old days clads wore down very very slowly but most looked better as they circulated because the wear hid the horrible manufacturing defects. Most Fines looked better than most BU's. Now days it looks like almost every clad in circulation has been through a meat grinder, twice. The pennies barely circulate before they are lost but get chewed up as well and then the zinc core evaporates. Of course it hardly matters since they come out of brand new rolls with staining and tarnish.

It's ironic that the mint improved quality so much in 1999 for the states quarters but pocket change looks worse than it ever did. If you want modern coins you better get them before they go into circulation and protect the pennies from corrosion.

OAKSTAR

Bump

Goldminers

This is one I decided to get. The population in MS67 PCGS grades remains fairly low, and it seems like a fun modern die variety. Most all of the other variations of "V"'s that I have looked at on eBay, look homemade and more like post mint chicken scratches.

Russell12

I got this one . . .

coingirl64

Your 2023 extra V looks authentic , it has the tiny die chip on Lincoln's forehead . Looks authentic to me , great find

Namvet69

Has the mint located the tampered die and confirmed the alteration?

OAKSTAR

@Namvet69 said:
Has the mint located the tampered die and confirmed the alteration?

Not a chance!.........ever