1962-D Roosevelt GTG - Answer Posted! *Update July 3 2023 - It sold*
keyman64
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This is not my coin, just something I discovered in my cyber-sleuthing. This is a trick question of sorts. It is no longer in this holder. Feel free to guess the grade it was in and the grade/holder it is in now. 
I recommend right clicking on the image below, copying the url to the full sized image and pasting that into another browser window to view it larger.
ANSWER: Was PCGS MS66 Now NGC MS68*FB
Update: It sold. $2,880 is a lot of clams for a PCGS MS 66 Roosevelt. I wonder what would happen if the new owner tries to cross it back to PCGS
https://coins.ha.com/itm/roosevelt-dimes/1962-d-10c-ms68and-9733-full-bands-ngc-ngc-census-1-0-and-2-0-pcgs-population-2-0-and-2-0-cdn-5-000-whsle-bid/a/60326-50076.s
Here's the link to the original PCGS True View: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/36856748
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Comments
NGC MS 66 to PCGS MS 68
(guessing based on the "trick" comment)
PCGS64, NGC 65.
Edit:
PCGS MS 67+ To NGC 68* edit again for FS.
PCGS 66+, maybe 67. Not fb
Here's the hint. It is no longer in the PCGS plastic.
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66+
bob
66
PCGS 67 to NGC 68*.
Coin Photographer.
No one has it yet.
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My WAG.... 65 to 67..... Cheers, RickO
If graded recently then 64, weak reverse.
No clue why you removed it from host slab, oh well, it looks to me 66+.
Cool piece!
PC 65+ for color; now NGC 67* no FB
Total guess, as this is not a series I collect.
Tom
I did not. Not my coin. It was the first thing I said in the original post.
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Answer posted in original post. What are your thoughts?
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Looks like I actually had it correct. Except for the steps thing lol.
Thoughts you say, I would guess it’s still worth the same amount of moolah.
According to the PCGS price guide, MS66 is $21 and MS68FB (only 2 examples have graded this high with none finer) is $8000.
I don’t know that many people will believe this is a real 68FB and I suspect any buyer will be challenged to cross it as a 68 or 68FB.
A 67+ is $450 and a 67+FB is $900. Would it even grade that high in a cross situation? Not the point, just providing context.
That said, the value is almost exclusively attributed to the toning which is very nice.
It will be entertaining to see where this one ends up.
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For what it's worth, I like it better than the PCGS MS68FB coin, which coincidentally has three TVs on Coinfacts - two in 67+ non FB holders, and one in the 68FB holder. The reverse spots are super unattractive on that coin.
Coin Photographer.
@keyman64
A question for you since this is your area of expertise. Whether it should be valued as a 66 or 68, how much of an increase do you believe the toning adds?
Missed that, you're correct.
I look at a lot of Large Cents in NGC holders that are graded MS66. Less than 10% IMO would cross to PCGS at MS66. The vast majority are priced at PCGS MS65+ money. I have yet to purchase an NGC coin. I am no expert on Roosevelt dimes...but apparently PCGS missed on the low side by 2 full points according to NGC....nah...PCGS doesn't give away 68's like NGC is more likely.
I know toned Mercury Dimes pretty darn well. I dabble in toned Roosevelts a little and know a bit but not everything. I have a few and have owned several. I do know that toned Roosevelts are much more common. I have even auctioned some recently and been pretty disappointed. The market seems to be on the softer side and might speak to the population of nicely toned examples. As for the value of this coin, it is not $21 and never has been. It’s not $8000, far from it, in my opinion. However when a couple bidders go nuts, just about anything is possible.
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Well, here's the PCGS 68FB.
I'll take the OP coin. I don't like spots.
Coin Photographer.
I think our host had this one correct.
Seeing as how the answer was "Was PCGS MS66 Now NGC MS68FB", how were you correct (even for just the grade part)? You guessed "PCGS MS 67+ To NGC 68 edit again for FS."
And it's "FB", not "FS"
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Coinscratch said:
» show previous quotes
Looks like I actually had it correct. Except for the steps thing lol.
Thoughts you say, I would guess it’s still worth the same amount of moolah..
>
Seeing as how the answer was "Was PCGS MS66 Now NGC MS68FB", how were you correct (even for just the grade part)? You guessed "PCGS MS 67+ To NGC 68 edit again for FS."
And it's "FB", not "FS"
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I believe I corrected myself on that but just the 68* part I believe was correct.
And interestingly enough that 68fb used to be a 67+ non-fb
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1962-d-10c/5125
Wow, you may want to enlarge your D mintmark. Looks similar to VV's RPM-001 D/D North.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Numbers don't lie....PCGS has graded 6793 coins MS68 or higher....NGC has graded 11057 coins MS68 or higher in the entire Roosevelt dime series.
Did you take into account how many Roosevelt dimes each company has graded?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld Even more striking..PCGS has graded 179,365 Roosevelt dimes and NGC has graded 156,834 Roosevelt dimes . PCGS gives a 68 or higher 0.037 percent of the time while NGC gives a 68 or higher 0.070 percent of the time. That means you are almost twice as likely to get MS68 or higher from NGC versus PCGS in the Roosevelt dime series.
Now do the calculations for FB, please. I'm curious as to the percent that get FB out of all each service has graded in MS. Yippeee, this is getting interesting.
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Thank you.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld technically its not FB at NGC it is FT.
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Would you settle on FB/PCGS, FT/NGC and FS/neither?😀
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes. I was just pointing that out.
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The OP coin is definitely a 66 maybe a plus for color. NGC tends to do a good job with the high grade Roosies. Somehow this one they failed on. I have seen and still own many high grade Roosies from NGC , PCGS and old ANACS. You couldn't tell the difference in grade between them PCGS and NGC 67 or 68 Roosies tend to be accurately graded. Old ANACS were accurately graded as well but some were undergraded. I currently have 46 to 64 PDS in PCGS and NGC holders and if I showed just pics of the coin without who slabbed them you could not tell me for certain which company slabbed it.
Edit for an error and to add I have seen overgraded coins in every type of slab. I don't recall the coin , but there was a severely overgraded coin in our hosts slab and the thread was crazy busy with replies from people here. It was sometime last year.
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@FlyingAl I hate spots as well, but the other coin you show is a higher grade than the OP coin because it has many less marks on it. Edit to add a much better strike as well.
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I just looked at the PCGS pic of the reverse on the coin @FlyingAl posted and the coin should be no higher than a 67+ There is a small horizontal scratch going across the torch that I think excludes it from the 68 grade.
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Update in first post. It sold. What do you think would happen if the new owner tried to cross it back to PCGS at any grade?
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I say it comes back PCGS MS67+FB.
Coin Photographer.
The owner will most likely resubmit the coin to PCGS, that's the game being played. Get the coin graded higher at NGC and then cross back to PCGS, believing it now has a better chance to cross back since it's now graded higher.
While this is interesting (and from my experience I agree that NGC gives out the 68 grade more readily), you can’t conclude this solely from the data above. We don’t know the quality of the coins submitted. We also don’t know about the status of currently graded coins vs. submissions.
Correct: NGC has almost twice the relative population at the 68 grade as PCGS.
Incorrect: a coin is twice as likely to get a 68 grade at NGC.
Conditioned on the sample of coins at each being the same and the current grades being representative of submissions, both statements are true but the second relies on those two assumptions.
Honestly, I think NGC is even more liberal than the data suggests because if you get a 68FB at PCGS you are probably going to stop. I suspect the top coins are tried far more often at PCGS (so the coins they see are better) and the current grades understate the number of submissions at that level.
As for the OP coin, I guessed 67+FB so the NGC 68*FT doesn’t surprise me too much. I think the original 66 grade was doubly wrong and I think it would cross at 67+FB but unlikely at 68FB. I’ve found that it’s hard to cross 68FTs.
Serious question... if this was your coin to submit, what tier (level) would the submission be submitted?
Seems there might not be a good answer especially if the grade misses the mark
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That's a really high grade for a coin that looks nothing like a 68 coin, let alone having a +.
Just my opinion, folks.
Pete
for those who keep getting it backwards pcgs graded it a 66 ngc graded 68 he put the link right below it
but honestly i have my doubts about ngc but hey good on you