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Can anybody spot the problem with this beautiful 1837 Large Cent ?
WingedLiberty1957
Posts: 2,961 ✭✭✭✭✭
i saw this very pretty large cent coming up for auction and could not find any sign of the "Altered Surface" that PCGS designated. Interesting that PCGS did not assign a "Questionable Color" or "Cleaned" designation.. I could not spot any problem from the TrueView photos. Can any experts out there spot anything? I am scratching my head.
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Looks like it my have been chemically treated with something. Color looks off to me.
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It's possible there was an alteration done to make the coin appear more red. That's what I think the most likely explanation is based on the photos.
Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.
Very skillfully whizzed and retoned. I was fooled by a similar coin back in the mid-1990's.
According to the PCGS website, the “Altered Surfaces” designation (with the complete definition/explanation linked below) involves “Adding anything to the surface of the coin to either ‘improve’ its appearance or to cover marks.”
https://www.pcgs.com/grades#grade94
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Whizzed obverse is my guess, based on the “luster” and color.
Very dangerous as a raw coin, as the eye appeal seems nice at first glance.
The obverse field looks suspiciously different than the reverse field.
Smitten with DBLCs.
No cac either 😖
This. Look at the texture of the obverse fields compared to the reverse. There appear faint little lines in the same direction. I think it has been whizzed and retoned as suggested earlier. The slab shot accentuates the artificial look.
I hope not, since they don’t sticker details-grade coins.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Unfortunately I envision a knucklehead cracking the coin out and selling it raw.
Curiously- Have you heard whether CACG will use details grading or if it will body bag coins like in the good old days?
You can see the difference between the fields and the cheeks. Still a pretty coin.
Funny that everyone else doesn’t like the obverse side, whereas I think the reverse side was messed with. Polish, lacquer, stained. Something happened to that coin and it will not straight grade ever.
great comments. i learned a few things.
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I'm not sure I would have quickly seen the issue in-hand, but from the first photo, "cleaned/whizzed" jumped right out at me.
Something appears definitely done to the surface to make it smoother/sleeker than it should be.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I know the trained eye wouldn’t touch this coin but I think it has great eye appeal and in a price range I could afford if I collected this issue
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
As long as you know what you’re buying and pay a price in line with the details designation, I think it’s perfectly fine to buy and enjoy this coin. The problem comes in when coins like this are misrepresented or sneak past the TPG.
Doesn't look whizzed to me. If you look at the other 1837 N-13s on CoinFacts you'll see similar die abrasion on the obverse. According to Wright, this is the later use of the obverse and earlier use of the reverse dies which would account for the difference in appearance.
Guessing from the images, I'd go with some type of dipping or chemical alteration. Doesn't have an original look, especially on the obverse.
https://pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1837-1c-n-13-medium-letters-bn/37165
It definitely looks recolored to me, maybe to cover up a harsh cleaning or even a quickie-whiz.
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
I don't see the lines that appear to some as whizzing lines, running thru the star in the photo. I also don't see the usual halo affect of doing that. My guess is some sort of chemical application happened.
Louis Armstrong
There's definitely something going on with the obverse color... it's not a natural color for this issue. The reverse actually looks ok to me. I wonder if someone used some sort of chemical treatment to enhance a mint red and then tried to mute the color... too bad. Beautiful coin otherwise.
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The lines on the obverse that some attribute to whizzing appear to be normal metal flow from striking. I believe the coin has been chemically doctored. They did a good job, but the color and texture on the reverse are more bothersome to me. I have to wonder if the appearance was really improved.
It looks to me, that something was done to minimize those hits on the cheek.... Chemical treatment perhaps... They seem to be 'smoothed' with no upraised edges one would expect.. and looking at the incursion to the hair curl, it seems to still have the disturbed edge, but due to the position, not as obvious as it would be on the cheek. Cheers, RickO