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Does PSA destroy your collectables?….YES

I would think twice to all of you that are sending your most cherished collectibles to PSA. So first, they mis-labeled a rare 1973 Topps Wacky Packages 1st Series Pack in PSA 8 as a 2nd series. Fairly elementary to distinguish between a series 1 and 2 with the card showing through the back, but never-the-less, they did. So I sent the graded PSA 8 pack in to be corrected. Many weeks later, I received an email, thats right, an email advising that they damaged my rare pack and it is now about a PSA 6! Not even the courtesy of a call to a near 20 year customer. That was bad enough but what followed was even more despicable. After a few emails, they finally called to tell me they would like to offer me $200 for destroying my 8, although recent sales of the pack in PSA are consistently $1200 plus tax. They insult you further by reciting, business-like rhetoric like “Terms of Agreement” and declared value, with total disregard for recent sales and the fact you can not find a replacement at the present time. So, as many have asked me throughout the years, can you trust PSA with your cherished collectables? The answer is ABSOLUTELY NOT and if they do destroy your card they have no intention of making things right…I miss Joe Orlando.

Comments

  • pab1969pab1969 Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sorry this happened to you. The damaging of cards seems like an all too regular posting around this forum lately. Reading threads like this make me cringe. I would be very nervous to submit anything raw, especially something of high value or of extreme rarity. I would rather purchase the card I want already graded on eBay than to deal with the submission issues lately (damaged cards, late turnaround times, inconsistent gradings, poor customer service, etc.). I know PSA is the cream of the crop of grading companies but lately it seems like something is not right.

  • jfkheatjfkheat Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭✭✭

    topcat, what value did you put on the submission form when you sent the pack to PSA?

  • topcattopcat Posts: 31 ✭✭

    $1000, recent sales are $1200. Doesnt matter because if i put $3000, they would say recent sales. It should be replacement cost, which at this point you cant even replace.

  • RufussCkingstonRufussCkingston Posts: 1,448 ✭✭✭✭

    what does a PSA 6 pack sell for??

  • topcattopcat Posts: 31 ✭✭

    I cant recall the last psa 6 at auction or ebay. The 8’s are very rare, it just so happens the same seller sold a few 8’s recently at $1200 per. The point is i had an 8 and they took that away from me and i cant replace it right now

  • pdoidoipdoidoi Posts: 439 ✭✭✭

    That sucks and I also would be very upset if that happened to me but you have to realize how much volume PSA must handle and grade every day. Sorry this happened to you.

  • GroceryRackPackGroceryRackPack Posts: 2,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That’s just Awful… :'(:'(:'(

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 7,910 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've had incidents where I got what I thought was fair compensation after they damaged something then other times where I knew that whatever their resolution would be probably wouldn't be enough so I didn't even bother contacting them about it and just sold the items off.
    The last time this happened I just decided that with this hobby, stuff like this can happen at any part of the process. It could be PSA one time then the USPS the next or FedEx on the return. It could be a seller's/buyer's fault that a card got damaged during shipping or even when an item goes through Ebay's authentication process with someone handling it then.

    OP,most of us feel your pain brother,we've unfortunately been in that same situation. We pay good money for certain pieces of cardboard in the best condition possible but once it leaves your hand (or before it gets to it) anything can happen. It really sucks but that's just the reality when you buy then grade cards.

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,674 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The pack topcat is talking about was basically impossible to find for over a decade. Some of the packs from a full box were recently graded and sold. So the only sales data are all very recent.

  • 82FootballWaxMemorys82FootballWaxMemorys Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2023 3:44AM

    This folks is what occurs when there is no viable competition. Sure an accident can happen to anybody, but what I speak of is the company's truly vile responses to their own mistake!

    Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think that considering the number of items handled at PSA, their attrition rate is probably pretty low. whenever humans are involved in a process, there is the potential for error. Have you tried calling and speaking to someone over the phone?

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • MarshallFaulk28MarshallFaulk28 Posts: 377 ✭✭✭

    I agree mistakes are made, but PSA should make you whole when they admit they are responsible for damage. It's only the right thing to do. The amount we're talking about here is peanuts compared to 20 years of business from a customer.

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Erik, nice post.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • JolleyWrencherJolleyWrencher Posts: 596 ✭✭✭

    Did you receive a picture/scan of the damage and verify it's your card on the back? Maybe some random chance another pack was being graded by the same specialist and yours got mixed up. I hope it is made right in the end. It stinks when your nightmares become a reality.

  • daltexdaltex Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you don't know what the pack is worth now, how can you say that $200 is an unfair offer/amount? I completely get your frustration, but these things happen and PSA can't fix your pack. The most it can do is offer you the difference. I'd be surprised if there was no method of appeal, but you don't seem to have a firm grasp of what the pack was worth then or what it's worth now.

  • coinspackscoinspacks Posts: 939 ✭✭✭

    I paid $950 for a psa 7 version

  • FrozencaribouFrozencaribou Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭✭✭

    OP- Brutal that PSA damaged something so special to you. That truly sucks. PSA has got to do a better job.

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,206 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just using APR, there’s been three sold this year for much more than $200.

    Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

  • DBesse27DBesse27 Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:
    Just using APR, there’s been three sold this year for much more than $200.

    Have any PSA 6 packs sold this year?

    Yaz Master Set
    #1 Gino Cappelletti master set
    #1 John Hannah master set

    Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox, 1968 Venz Sox

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,206 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DBesse27 said:

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:
    Just using APR, there’s been three sold this year for much more than $200.

    Have any PSA 6 packs sold this year?

    No - results are very limited. There was one more legitimate 7 listed, sold in 2021 for $1110.01.

    https://www.psacard.com/auctionprices/packs/1973-topps-wacky-packages-wax-pack/wacky-packages/values/721427

    Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,206 ✭✭✭✭✭

    …but I know nothing about 1973 Topps Wacky Packages whatsoever, Dan. Just what I can glean from the PSA data provided.

    Literally.

    From what I understand, the offer from PSA will be along the lines of the difference in value. So I’m guessing a PSA 6 pack is like a $750ish value according to PSA, if they’re using the above.

    I imagine the OP follows these closely if he collects them, and probably has a good handle on the current prices these are going for. And if he’s still got his PSA 6 and hasn’t sold it, it’s probably going to have no sales data associated with it. For what it’s worth, PSA 6 is the lowest graded pack on the pop report, which features 2 9’s, 33 8’s, 12 7’s and 1 PSA 6 for 48 total Series 1 packs graded…

    Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 24, 2023 6:06AM

    @1951WheatiesPremium said:
    …but I know nothing about 1973 Topps Wacky Packages whatsoever, Dan. Just what I can glean from the PSA data provided.

    Literally.

    From what I understand, the offer from PSA will be along the lines of the difference in value. So I’m guessing a PSA 6 pack is like a $750ish value according to PSA, if they’re using the above.

    I imagine the OP follows these closely if he collects them, and probably has a good handle on the current prices these are going for. And if he’s still got his PSA 6 and hasn’t sold it, it’s probably going to have no sales data associated with it. For what it’s worth, PSA 6 is the lowest graded pack on the pop report, which features 2 9’s, 33 8’s, 12 7’s and 1 PSA 6 for 48 total Series 1 packs graded…

    Right, all 48 packs are from the same full box. Before two years ago, there were literally zero packs like his on the census. Before these were graded, this pack was viewed to be worth about $1000 in good shape. Graded packs are very new to the wacky packages hobby and the kind of data PSA would base such a decision on doesn’t really exist.

  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is very unfortunate. I loved them, my dresser drawers had about 20 off them stuck to him!

    I know it wasn't your intent but maybe there could still be a silver lining. What if you ripped it? Now that it's lost over half it's value you could just open it. It might it contains one the big hit cards!

    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
  • topcattopcat Posts: 31 ✭✭

    If they damaged the pack, the cards are most likely damaged

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,674 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @topcat said:
    If they damaged the pack, the cards are most likely damaged

    And the chances of $1000 worth of contents is very slim under the best of circumstances.

  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree with both of you but there is a chance it could just be top card damage, etc. I am just trying to be optimistic.

    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
  • 82FootballWaxMemorys82FootballWaxMemorys Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2023 10:50AM

    @Cakes said:
    I agree with both of you but there is a chance it could just be top card damage, etc. I am just trying to be optimistic.

    The same optimism folks who lay the powerball have :) Although in fairness odds of winning that is greater than this pack having any PSA 10's (or 9's) in it after being damaged. 10's are what you need for those Wacky's BTW. The value of the pack is predicated on it's sealed scarcity and at one time near non-existence in grades above 7

    Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.

  • daltexdaltex Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cakes said:
    I agree with both of you but there is a chance it could just be top card damage, etc. I am just trying to be optimistic.

    Do you have the pack back, or are you just taking PSA's word re the condition?

  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @daltex said:

    @Cakes said:
    I agree with both of you but there is a chance it could just be top card damage, etc. I am just trying to be optimistic.

    Do you have the pack back, or are you just taking PSA's word re the condition?

    I am not the OP. I think it's confusing for people because the OP and I both use the LedZep avatar.

    I am going to bow out on this thread to avoid the confusion.

    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
  • picklepetepicklepete Posts: 414 ✭✭✭✭

    I think PSA should give u the option of letting them keep the PSA 6 pk & paying u market value on the 8 pack.
    IMO..

  • topcattopcat Posts: 31 ✭✭

    I agree with Picklepete...I do not want the 6 back, it is useless to my collection. They have not sent me a picture of the damage and so far they have been "researching" the value for 2 weeks. Not difficult, as Paul Maul pointed out there has only been ones graded from the same ultra rare box and very few have been offered for sale.
    As far as the cards possibly being ok, that is not an option. There are only 2 cards per pack and it would not make sense to crack open the pack especially since the odds are high they are damaged.

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2023 12:13PM

    There is another 8 on eBay, but it’s a well known flipper trying to make a quick $500 profit…

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/225456265045?hash=item347e3d9755

  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2023 1:03PM

    @PaulMaul said:
    There is another 8 on eBay, but it’s a well known flipper trying to make a quick $500 profit…

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/225456265045?hash=item347e3d9755

    US $1,599.95 - Hopefully OP gets that. The $200 amount was laughable and near 20 year customer deserves more.

    Sorry about the suggestion to open the pack but I am a degenerate ripper that can't keep anything unopened for longer than a year. I have tried!

    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
  • yankeeno7yankeeno7 Posts: 9,239 ✭✭✭

    Maybe PSA should keep the 6 and purchase the 8 that is on ebay. Let them negotiate the price and just replace your item. It's them who should be jumping through the hoops to put an 8 back in your hands.

  • JolleyWrencherJolleyWrencher Posts: 596 ✭✭✭

    It's unrealistic, not necessarily unreasonable, to expect to get back what you provided because these items are scarce. Determining the value is somewhat subjective because everyone uses raw auction sales figures but nobody mentions skimming 13%+ for eBay/auction fees.

    Auction prices include a huge service. Try to get auction prices at a garage sale, local convention, or through your social media marketplace. So using ebay isn't necessarily the price it is worth because a service is tied to the value.

    With ebay you may get money back guarantee, authentication guarantee, shipping discounts, and other benefits which should detract from the value odlf the item.

    I'm not looking to rain on a parade. I cannot put myself in your situation and fully understand it but I am trying to understand what a grading company needs to consider when these situations arise because they are likely a case by case scenario. There may be a blanket rule at PSA but that's because a baseline needs established. Do they deviate from the baseline rule when necessary? I'd imagine they are trying to be as fair as possible. If not then I would suspect a lot more PSA bashing on other forums.

  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,528 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PSA should have given you the choice of:

    a) Your pack back as a PSA 6 plus $300 cash.
    b) Your pack back as a PSA 6 plus $500 grading voucher.
    c) $900 cash and PSA keeps the damaged pack.

  • topcattopcat Posts: 31 ✭✭

    This is simple...within their "Terms and Agreement", it states that if they damage your item, they will reimburse the "Fair Market Value" for the item, which legally means the cost to replace at current value determined by recent sales. The last 2 PSA 8's sold for approx $1300 w tax. The problem is they are very rare and currently there is only an 8 for $1600 and a 9 for $3000.

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2023 12:12PM

    @topcat said:
    …..and a 9 for $3000.

    Not to mention that the 9 looks like it may be damaged also.

  • JolleyWrencherJolleyWrencher Posts: 596 ✭✭✭

    @topcat said:
    PSA has been "researching" the value for over 2 weeks, after I laughed at their insulting offer. BTW-I am the same guy that has be identified as their "Wacky Pack Expert" and have assisted them countless times, (pro bono) over the years; providing price valuations (guess when the have to pay out, I am not trusted anymore), card identification and analysis and numerous quotes for their publications. So, this is how they treat a trusted ally?

    Don't lose the faith yet. I imagine your situation is extremely unique, and you may not believe you need to defend your position to the degree that you are, but the goal from a business will be to minimize payouts/claims as you know. I'm not sure what all you had explained to them before they made the offer but I think your credibility with the company will be understood if the right person(s) is reviewing the matter.

  • threeofsixthreeofsix Posts: 563 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2023 12:09PM

    @topcat said:
    PSA has been "researching" the value for over 2 weeks, after I laughed at their insulting offer. BTW-I am the same guy that has be identified as their "Wacky Pack Expert" and have assisted them countless times, (pro bono) over the years; providing price valuations (guess when the have to pay out, I am not trusted anymore), card identification and analysis and numerous quotes for their publications. So, this is how they treat a trusted ally?

    @topcat I would like like to say your comments shock me…. but unfortunately they do not.

    It seems from what I read here and on other forums this sort of thing is becoming very commonplace. There hasn’t been a issue discussed that I have not experienced myself. I can sum it up by saying that it feels that PSA is moving rapidly into the new customer market, very much at the expense of their loyal customer market….and I’ve been around reading it all for the past 20 years.

    I’m sure I’m not smart enough to know why…. but I just felt from reading your note that I would let you know that you are not alone in your experience.

    The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Or the one.
    Live long, and prosper.
  • 82FootballWaxMemorys82FootballWaxMemorys Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JolleyWrencher said:
    Don't lose the faith yet. I imagine your situation is extremely unique, and you may not believe you need to defend your position to the degree that you are, but the goal from a business will be to minimize payouts/claims as you know. I'm not sure what all you had explained to them before they made the offer but I think your credibility with the company will be understood if the right person(s) is reviewing the matter.

    Are you Steve Cohen?

    Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.

  • JolleyWrencherJolleyWrencher Posts: 596 ✭✭✭

    As in the Mets owners? I've seen the name in some threads here and there but I'm not picking up what you just put down.

    Trying to be optimistic. Sometimes positive energy helps. I am a realist and I doubt the situation was escalated far enough when the post was made to achieve the desired results.

    My sisters ex-husband climbed the ranks from being a successful insurance claims adjuster. To be successful in that position then you have an agenda where giving the fair deal is usually the last option. The goal was to avoid escalations and avoid max payouts. Not every insurance company, or adjuster, handles cases the exact same.

    I don't work for PSA, I don't know their SOPs, and I'm not directly involved I. This situation so all I can do is offer some negative vibes or positive vibes.

    You can see which state of being I prefer. Ask my kids, I'm not the friendliest one of the bunch, but I know situations have resolved themselves much better than I anticipated in the past and the stress of worrying caused a lot of unnecessary negativity.

    It's a way of life I've been taught by mentors of mixed religions, and the agnostic, from all over the globe.

    Make no mistake, I'm not saying one should be a weakling and roll over, I'm saying be positive for the good of your own sanity and those around you.

  • DBesse27DBesse27 Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Has this been resolved? If so what was the resolution?

    Yaz Master Set
    #1 Gino Cappelletti master set
    #1 John Hannah master set

    Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox, 1968 Venz Sox

  • topcattopcat Posts: 31 ✭✭

    Unbelievably no….its been 3 weeks and I am still getting the runaround. They play games w terms and agreement bs.

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