What stopped this coin from receiving CAC sticker?
coinguy96
Posts: 44 ✭✭✭
I've been grading coins for 8 years now and I've learned to always assume that I missed something on the coin (spot, hairline, gouge, etc.) rather than the graders made a mistake. However, when I originally sent this coin to PCGS I thought it had a solid chance of 68+DCAM. Well it graded 68DCAM and I decided to not play the crack out/regrade game and just send to GreatCollections and have them send to CAC as I assumed it was a lock for the grade. It came back from CAC with "Not CAC" and to say I was surprised is an understatement. I know it's nearly impossible to grade proof coins from photo's but I have two questions. Do you see something that's holding this coin back from being CAC'd and do you think it's likely that CAC may have missed this one?
Here is the URL to the GC listing
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1363727/1958-Franklin-Half-Dollar-PCGS-Proof-68-DCAM
Comments
I don't know that much about proofs, but if the photos are accurate, the frost around "UNITED STATES OF" seems a little weak. The value difference between 68 and 68+ is enormous so they're going to be pretty careful with it.
I'm guessing the problem wasn't with the numeric grade so much as the DCAM designation.
Edited to add: I looked at the photos from GC's auction. They're different, and now other parts of the lettering look to be weak on cameo..... so I dunno. Strike detail also seems to be weak compared to the other images of 68+ and 68 coins. That's not usually a discussion point with proofs, but it could be that as well. I'm interested to see what the Frankie experts think.
The simple answer is, JA didn't think it was
Sorry,
Edited to add: I blew it up and I didn't see anything, but that's just me.
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Can't answer the "why not" question. But the photographer needs additional lighting if those dark areas in the photo are truly frosty white.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
You will have a super hard time getting a coherent why, no one can tell imho from this TV.
The grade is too high, and as graded, only in hand can someone really advise you.
I suggest you take it with you to the next major show and have knowledgeable dealers advise you further, just my 2 cents.
I'm gonna guess there's a hairline in a prominent spot that isn't showing in the images.
Coin Photographer.
Maybe CAC ran out of stickers.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
IMO, had it been a CAM it would have a sticker. Some iffy spots regarding the DCAM from the TV.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
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Scrutiny, people. SCRUTINY !!
I would think the right side of the bell where the frosting is a little lacking may have held it back. It probably would have CAC'd if it was a CAM but probably not as a DCAM with that area the way it is. Still a really nice coin nonetheless.
Collector
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The coin looks weak as a DCAM. The GC images make it look even weaker.
P.S. I wouldn’t have posted the “it failed CAC” thread until after the sale and after the return privilege had ended. There are always time wasters that want CAC coins at non CAC prices and will abuse returns.
The coin doesn’t look DCAM to me, so that’s my guess as to why it didn’t sticker. Of course, if it has hairlines that prevented a sticker, not surprisingly, they’re not apparent in the images.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Based on the TV alone, it looks to me like it is - at best - an average DCAM. Thus no bean as it is not premium for the grade.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Not PQ enough.
I was going to write something snarky, yet now I realize the price difference between a 68 and a 68+ (in DCAM) is 20K.
peacockcoins
Thank you all for your responses.
I think the argument that this coin didn't receive a CAC sticker because it wasn't frosty enough doesn't hold weight when you look at these two 1958's in 68+DCAM that sold on GreatCollections in March of this year, they were both CAC'd, and in my opinion these two coins were struck from the exact same die as my coin. Take a look at the GC photo's where I've compared mine to theirs. The frost breaks are in the exact same spots on all three coins.
I know this conversation is to no avail but I couldn't help expressing my thoughts on the decision to not CAC.
MY COIN
GC COIN #1
GC COIN #2
Thoughts?
Just by scrolling, look at the frost on " AMERICA " slightly weaker on the 3rd coin VS yours.
GC photos and $2 gets me a cup of coffee with my senior discount.
FYI, a CAC sticker means the coin is solid for the grade, not necessarily premium for the grade.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
It's hard judging CAM and DCAM based on photo so I have no idea on that front. Just looking at the bell details the other two look crisper or more defined to me. People looking at coins at CAC are human so some results are on the money and I'm sure some are off in either a positive or negative direction. I know I've seen some coins that are stickered which made me wonder what they were thinking to sticker that example.
It's hard judging CAM and DCAM based on photo so I have no idea on that front.
I completely agree with @mtn_scout on that statement. Photos by themselves are subjective so no cigar judging a coin from these or any other pics, especially what you’re asking. This must be done in hand. I will say that if you’re convinced it should sticker send it in again for a second look, if that’s even possible.
Good luck,
Joe
PVC?
You could send it to CAC again, and ask for a detailed response regarding their decision. Cheers, RickO
I'm one of those rare numismatists who would be more than happy with a 66 or 67 at a TINY FRACTION of the price. Think of how much money you'd have left for other coins.
Thoughts - All we can do is speculate, based on the images provided. And by far, the two most likely reasons why the coin didn't sticker are that in the opinion of CAC, either it didn't merit the DCAM designation or it wasn't considered to be a solid 68. Images don't provide the answer you're looking for.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Interesting / Took a good look but
Based on just the images will leave to other posters.
FWIW and if you want another data point here is the one I sold on GC a couple years ago.
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/968468/1958-Franklin-Half-Dollar-PCGS-Proof-68-DCAM-CAC
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/40893014
To answer your question- I don't know.
Collector, occasional seller
On second thought, maybe it has to do with the fields. I see some more "starburst" luster in the TV for your coin compared to the others. It could be that JA looks for truly liquid fields in DCAM Franklins.
Collector, occasional seller
Just cuz I enjoy sharing it. Here's my 68 DCAM...with a bean. From a $35 Ebay proof set.
Thanks Steve, I should have used the standard wording. Solid is not the same as premium.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!