When to Insure?

TheCuyunaCollection

At what $$$ value would you consider to start insuring your collection?

I’m starting to toss around the idea and for those that have insured your collection, do you have any recommendations for who to do it through?

Thanks!

erscolo

I recently insured my collection through American Collectors Insurance, an affiliated of USAA. I have had no claims or anything, and did supply them with a detailed collection inventory as well as all items $250 or more in value for the scheduled part of the insurance.

PeakRarities

I have private insurance through Hugh Wood. I think the premium is very reasonable and they have different types of coverage options depending on your circumstances. Part of my coverage includes a certain amount that is covered anywhere in the country, including transit through USPS. If I want to ship a $6,000 coin, the insurance purchased through USPS would be quite expensive ($50+?), but now I can just use priority mail flat rate + signature ($11) rather than registered mail, and sleep well knowing that whatever I ship will be covered and I won't have to ever submit a claim through USPS, which I heard can be brutal.

The lower the value of your collection, the less expensive the premium will be so in all honesty I think it would be wise to just shop for a quote and see if you're comfortable with the price. This is only an estimate on my part, but a low 5 figure collection might cost less than $100 a year to insure.

ricko

Insurance for valuable coins is a wise move. I hear Hugh Wood is excellent. Cheers, RickO

Catbert

https://hwinternational.com/us/industries/fine-art-collectibles/fine-art-collection-insurance/coins-numicatics-paper-money/

johnny9434

this thread i like. ya never know

TomB

When to insure? When you are no longer comfortable or able to afford the loss.

124Spider

@TomB said:
When to insure? When you are no longer comfortable or able to afford the loss.

Yeah, this.

The sole purpose of "insurance" is to protect you from losses you cannot afford to bear.

On one side, most of us would insure our home, because we couldn't afford to bear the loss.

On the other side, most of us wouldn't insure that $50 widget we just bought (so-called "purchase protection,"), because we could afford to buy another one if necessary (and, of course, that "insurance" is always outrageously priced).

So, if it would be a bad blow, financially, to have your collection stolen or destroyed, insure it. If it would be no big deal to you, don't insure it.

MFeld

@124Spider said:

@TomB said:
When to insure? When you are no longer comfortable or able to afford the loss.

Yeah, this.

The sole purpose of "insurance" is to protect you from losses you cannot afford to bear.

On one side, most of us would insure our home, because we couldn't afford to bear the loss.

On the other side, most of us wouldn't insure that $50 widget we just bought (so-called "purchase protection,"), because we could afford to buy another one if necessary (and, of course, that "insurance" is always outrageously priced).

So, if it would be a bad blow, financially, to have your collection stolen or destroyed, insure it. If it would be no big deal to you, don't insure it.

I’d add “peace of mind” as another purpose of insurance. It’s not necessarily the same thing as “to protect you from losses you cannot afford to bear.”

124Spider

@MFeld said:

@124Spider said:

@TomB said:
When to insure? When you are no longer comfortable or able to afford the loss.

Yeah, this.

The sole purpose of "insurance" is to protect you from losses you cannot afford to bear.

On one side, most of us would insure our home, because we couldn't afford to bear the loss.

On the other side, most of us wouldn't insure that $50 widget we just bought (so-called "purchase protection,"), because we could afford to buy another one if necessary (and, of course, that "insurance" is always outrageously priced).

So, if it would be a bad blow, financially, to have your collection stolen or destroyed, insure it. If it would be no big deal to you, don't insure it.

I’d add “peace of mind” as another purpose of insurance. It’s not necessarily the same thing as “to protect you from losses you cannot afford to bear.”

I don't see a difference, in practice, but I don't mind if you do.

Either way, the issue is to make you whole, financially, since insurance doesn't magically replace the coins you took years to acquire. If not being insured causes worry, it's because the financial blow would be too much (especially given how inexpensive it is to insure your collection).

P0CKETCHANGE

@124Spider said:
If not being insured causes worry, it's because the financial blow would be too much (especially given how inexpensive it is to insure your collection).

This is the other important consideration.

If one has a $100k collection and it costs $1k/year to insure, if they have a full loss at least once in 100 years, it’s worth it to insure.

If it costs $10k/year to insure, now you’d have to have a full loss at least once every 10 years to make it worth it.

JW77

While we are in the insurance topic I use to insure my collection through my State Farm agent, but the requirement was that I needed to keep the coins in a bank safe deposit for long term storage, unless I was transporting them, taking them to or back from a coin show, temporarily keeping them in the house, etc. The main no no was permanent storage in the house. My question is whether other coin insurance policies from other carriers are as restrictive?

MFeld

@124Spider said:

@MFeld said:

@124Spider said:

@TomB said:
When to insure? When you are no longer comfortable or able to afford the loss.

Yeah, this.

The sole purpose of "insurance" is to protect you from losses you cannot afford to bear.

On one side, most of us would insure our home, because we couldn't afford to bear the loss.

On the other side, most of us wouldn't insure that $50 widget we just bought (so-called "purchase protection,"), because we could afford to buy another one if necessary (and, of course, that "insurance" is always outrageously priced).

So, if it would be a bad blow, financially, to have your collection stolen or destroyed, insure it. If it would be no big deal to you, don't insure it.

I’d add “peace of mind” as another purpose of insurance. It’s not necessarily the same thing as “to protect you from losses you cannot afford to bear.”

I don't see a difference, in practice, but I don't mind if you do.

Either way, the issue is to make you whole, financially, since insurance doesn't magically replace the coins you took years to acquire. If not being insured causes worry, it's because the financial blow would be too much (especially given how inexpensive it is to insure your collection).

Here are just two examples where to me, at least, there’s a huge difference between paying for peace of mind VS. not being able to afford a loss: I don’t park in no-parking zones or at parking meters, without paying. I could afford a ticket, or if my car were to be towed, the bill to get it out of the impound. But I want the peace of mind not to have to worry about messing with such things.

With respect to insuring coins or other valuables - people often buy insurance for the peace of mind that they will be insured in the event of loss, even if they could afford the loss. I’m guessing that many multi millionaires and billionaire insure their valuables, even though they could easily afford the loss.

So I do see a difference in practice, but I don't mind if you don’t. : )

PeakRarities

@JW77 said:
While we are in the insurance topic I use to insure my collection through my State Farm agent, but the requirement was that I needed to keep the coins in a bank safe deposit for long term storage, unless I was transporting them, taking them to or back from a coin show, temporarily keeping them in the house, etc. The main no no was permanent storage in the house. My question is whether other coin insurance policies from other carriers are as restrictive?

With Hugh wood the majority of my coverage is the "Bronze tier", which covers storage at my house, SDB, or transporting between those two locations. The remaining part of my coverage is the "Gold tier" which covers the coins anywhere in the continental us, if I'm traveling, or shipping. The gold tier is considerably more expensive but that's why you limit that amount to what you might typically travel with or ship at one time, and the less expensive bronze coverage for the bulk of the value. It may not be a concrete requirement, but I know that they much prefer that the coins be stored in a quality safe if you choose to store them at your home rather than a SDB.

TomB

@JW77 said:
While we are in the insurance topic I use to insure my collection through my State Farm agent, but the requirement was that I needed to keep the coins in a bank safe deposit for long term storage, unless I was transporting them, taking them to or back from a coin show, temporarily keeping them in the house, etc. The main no no was permanent storage in the house. My question is whether other coin insurance policies from other carriers are as restrictive?

Get in touch with Hugh Wood, Inc.

TxCollector

I went through Safe Deposit Box Insurance Coverage, LLC as broker and the carrier is XL Specialty Insurance Company. The coverage is very restrictive and only covers contents that are in my SDB but the premium is reflective of that and is only 0.2% of the insured value per year.

ShaunBC5

I don’t have insurance, yet, but have considered once my collection gets close to $100k and has many coins valued over $1000 that it’ll probably be time to insure.
I’m guessing I’m 15yrs away from that and my standards could change in the meantime.
And no, there is no good formula I used to come up with that. Just a feeling at this point since my total and individual values at so low.

124Spider

@MFeld said:

So I do see a difference in practice, but I don't mind if you don’t. : )

Seems fair.

alaura22

How does one insure a collection when the collection is "dynamic"?
Meaning, it's constantly changing.

TomB

@alaura22 said:
How does one insure a collection when the collection is "dynamic"?
Meaning, it's constantly changing.

Use an insurer such as Hugh Wood, Inc where they do not need a detailed spreadsheet of your collection. They need approximate total values and where the breakdown of where the collection might be kept. Contact the potential insurer to get a better answer to your questions.

Catbert

@TomB said:

@alaura22 said:
How does one insure a collection when the collection is "dynamic"?
Meaning, it's constantly changing.

Use an insurer such as Hugh Wood, Inc where they do not need a detailed spreadsheet of your collection. They need approximate total values and where the breakdown of where the collection might be kept. Contact the potential insurer to get a better answer to your questions.

Agree, but would add that any individual coin worth $10,000 or more is required to be detailed. For those who have questions, please see the link I provided previously in this thread.

ProofCollection

@DeplorableDan said:

@JW77 said:
While we are in the insurance topic I use to insure my collection through my State Farm agent, but the requirement was that I needed to keep the coins in a bank safe deposit for long term storage, unless I was transporting them, taking them to or back from a coin show, temporarily keeping them in the house, etc. The main no no was permanent storage in the house. My question is whether other coin insurance policies from other carriers are as restrictive?

With Hugh wood the majority of my coverage is the "Bronze tier", which covers storage at my house, SDB, or transporting between those two locations. The remaining part of my coverage is the "Gold tier" which covers the coins anywhere in the continental us, if I'm traveling, or shipping. The gold tier is considerably more expensive but that's why you limit that amount to what you might typically travel with or ship at one time, and the less expensive bronze coverage for the bulk of the value. It may not be a concrete requirement, but I know that they much prefer that the coins be stored in a quality safe if you choose to store them at your home rather than a SDB.

I thought this sounded great and checked into it. In case anyone is interested, I checked into the Gold tier today and they only cover coins when shipped with US registered mail, which is a significant but understandable limitation.

Glen2022

if you keep your coins in an SDB, why do you need insurance?

I recognize that bank vaults can be robbed and the contents of the SDBs are stolen, but this is extremely rare. I suspect it happens more in movies than in real life but that's only speculation on my part.

alaura22

@Glen2022 said:
if you keep your coins in an SDB, why do you need insurance?

I recognize that bank vaults can be robbed and the contents of the SDBs are stolen, but this is extremely rare. I suspect it happens more in movies than in real life but that's only speculation on my part.

Just keep in mind, your valuables are not insured in a SDB

winesteven

@alaura22 said:

@Glen2022 said:
if you keep your coins in an SDB, why do you need insurance?

I recognize that bank vaults can be robbed and the contents of the SDBs are stolen, but this is extremely rare. I suspect it happens more in movies than in real life but that's only speculation on my part.

Just keep in mind, your valuables are not insured in a SDB

Not insured by the bank, but private insurance does cover it.

@Glen2022 said:
if you keep your coins in an SDB, why do you need insurance?

I recognize that bank vaults can be robbed and the contents of the SDBs are stolen, but this is extremely rare. I suspect it happens more in movies than in real life but that's only speculation on my part.

You can use insurance if you choose to ship coins to or from a TPG, or CAC stickering, or to an auction house, or to a dealer or collector for sale, or bringing coins to a coin show, or buying coins from a coin show and going home.

Steve

TxCollector

@Glen2022 said:
if you keep your coins in an SDB, why do you need insurance?

I recognize that bank vaults can be robbed and the contents of the SDBs are stolen, but this is extremely rare. I suspect it happens more in movies than in real life but that's only speculation on my part.

The insurance agent that I went through told me that the largest source of claims for them came from water damage from instances where the sprinklers went off.

Glen2022

@jeffas1974 said:

@Glen2022 said:
if you keep your coins in an SDB, why do you need insurance?

I recognize that bank vaults can be robbed and the contents of the SDBs are stolen, but this is extremely rare. I suspect it happens more in movies than in real life but that's only speculation on my part.

The insurance agent that I went through told me that the largest source of claims for them came from water damage from instances where the sprinklers went off.

that makes sense. Presumably sprinklers went on due to a possible fire which could also could mess up your coins.

ProofCollection

@Glen2022 said:
if you keep your coins in an SDB, why do you need insurance?

I recognize that bank vaults can be robbed and the contents of the SDBs are stolen, but this is extremely rare. I suspect it happens more in movies than in real life but that's only speculation on my part.

I noted the Hugh Wood has a policy to insure coins stored in SDBs. Also you might have forgotten about the FBI raid on the bank in Beverly Hills a few years ago where they just took everything from all SDBs.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-09-30/judge-backs-fbi-beverly-hills-safe-deposit-box-raid#:~:text=A federal judge ruled Friday,not violate anyone's constitutional rights.

HillbillyCollector

Excellent thread about something I have been considering for a while.
Thanks to all who provided suggestions, I’m making some calls today!
HB

breakdown

@ProofCollection said:

@Glen2022 said:
if you keep your coins in an SDB, why do you need insurance?

I recognize that bank vaults can be robbed and the contents of the SDBs are stolen, but this is extremely rare. I suspect it happens more in movies than in real life but that's only speculation on my part.

I noted the Hugh Wood has a policy to insure coins stored in SDBs. Also you might have forgotten about the FBI raid on the bank in Beverly Hills a few years ago where they just took everything from all SDBs.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-09-30/judge-backs-fbi-beverly-hills-safe-deposit-box-raid#:~:text=A federal judge ruled Friday,not violate anyone's constitutional rights.

Just to clarify, US Private vaults was no bank and later pleaded guilty to money laundering but it is true that the raid was controversial.

Sorry to derail a good thread. I use Hugh Wood and agree with all Deplorable Dan and Mark Feld said above.

horseyride

There have been multiple articles about watches coins and other valuables "disappearing" over time from locked, never visited SDBs, I doubt this is common, but you never know.

edwardjulio

https://bluewater-ins.com/
This company is worth a look.