"Questionable Color"???

joeykoins

Hi guys,
just recently, I went to a Coin Show to have 5 of my coins Submitted at a on-site PCGS grading table.
To make a long story short. 4 of my 2010p Cents came back,
**"Questionable Color". **
Really???
Why?
What do you guys think?
Thank You!












Do you guys see anything?

Goldbully

I can not see anything from your pics that show questionable color.
So you were looking for MS67 or higher grades, I can see why having viewed the price guide....MS67...$1,800.
Since you have gold shield grading you will be getting TrueView images.....That should be interesting.

Sorry for your awful results.

edited to add: what was the fifth coin?

291fifth

The graders see many, many modern cents. They develop a very good feel for what the original coins should look like. With MS67s bringing very high prices they are going to be very unforgiving.

OAKSTAR

On-site grading table? They grade them on the spot?

The_Dinosaur_Man

I don't see anything out of place. Were the graders under questionable influence?

johnny010

Crack out and mail in.

joeykoins

@Goldbully said:
I can not see anything from your pics that show questionable color.
So you were looking for MS67 or higher grades, I can see why having viewed the price guide....MS67...$1,800.
Since you have gold shield grading you will be getting TrueView images.....That should be interesting.

Sorry for your awful results.

edited to add: what was the fifth coin?

Thanks!
The 5th coin was the saving grace of the whole submission! BIG TIME.
The 2020W Rockefeller "W" Quarter.
It came back a marvelous ms 67.
PCGS price guide = $1000!

joeykoins

One important aspect of the whole matter.
Unfortunately, I did inadverntently, soak each cent in EZEST to remove some haze.
That appears to have been the color problem? Although, not really too bad at all? It did somewhat discolor the original skin?
That was what PCGS probably noticed?
But, once again, not as terrible as to receive that dreaded, "Questionable Color"
Death mark!

OAKSTAR

I was just going to ask you if the grader gave you an explanation.

joeykoins

Guys, these specific coins, I think, had a real shot for the exclusive ms67!
I might break these out and reconsider to have regarded?
This time, not at the high priced $70 per coin but $25, instead.

FullHorn

@joeykoins said:
One important aspect of the whole matter.
Unfortunately, I did ineverntantly, soak each cent in EZEST to remove some haze.
That appears to have been the color problem? Although, not really too bad at all? It did somewhat discolor the original skin?
That was what PCGS probably noticed?
But, once again, not as terrible as to receive that dreaded, "Questionable Color"
Death mark!

Inadvertently soaking in EZEST must have been the problem.

joeykoins

@FullHorn said:
Inadvertently soaking in EZEST must have been the problem.

I know, I know! My BIG mistake!
Kicking myself now.

OAKSTAR

e-Zest on zinc? Yes, that's what did it.

coinbuf

@joeykoins said:
One important aspect of the whole matter.
Unfortunately, I did ineverntantly, soak each cent in EZEST to remove some haze.
That appears to have been the color problem? Although, not really too bad at all? It did somewhat discolor the original skin?
That was what PCGS probably noticed?
But, once again, not as terrible as to receive that dreaded, "Questionable Color"
Death mark!

Why are you starting another thread on these coins. You know the problem you doctored the coins, this is the second or third time you have admitted as much. At least two of the coins show clear signs of dip or surface manipulation, one of the four might have slid by, but once a grader sees a trend the rest are likely guilty by association. My experience is that these will only get worse as time goes by. I think you were very lucky not to have the qtr get caught up in the wash as well.

joeykoins

@OAKSTAR said:
I was just going to ask you if the grader gave you an explanation.

Nope, no explanation.

OAKSTAR

How do you inadvertently soap coins in anything?

joeykoins

@OAKSTAR said:
How do you inadvertently soap coins in anything?

Did not know it would harm the grade.
I do this to 90% of my coins, including the "W" quarters.
This is the FIRST time a coin came back in a detail grade.

OAKSTAR

@joeykoins said:
What do you guys think?

My first thought was; that sucks. My second thought was; how much you paid for that. I've had some hard lessons myself over the years.

OAKSTAR

@joeykoins said:

@OAKSTAR said:
How do you inadvertently soap coins in anything?

Did not know it would harm the grade.
I do this to 90% of my coins, including the "W" quarters.
This is the FIRST time a coin came back in a detail grade.

I've only used e-Zest to quick dip silver, mostly silver Kennedy's I've found. Only acetone on everything else when needed.

FlyingAl

Ezest will work on silver, but it will cause an unnatural color for anything else. A quick search on the forums will likely pop up several threads on the topic.

Goldbully

@joeykoins said:

@FullHorn said:
Inadvertently soaking in EZEST must have been the problem.

I know, I know! My BIG mistake!
Kicking myself now.

At least you're honest.

From what I have learned over the years, dipping Zinc/Copper coins in man made baths is a recipe for disaster.

What was that song from the sixties? I fought the law and the law won.

Fraz

@JoeyCoins —I appreciate you having told your story. There’s no shame in the truth nor teaching by example. I learned. I can move on to some other questionable act due to your sacrifice.

IkesT

@joeykoins said:

@OAKSTAR said:
How do you inadvertently soap coins in anything?

Did not know it would harm the grade.
I do this to 90% of my coins, including the "W" quarters.
This is the FIRST time a coin came back in a detail grade.

IMO, eZest really should not be used as a first resort for most coins - it is an unnecessarily aggressive treatment. There should be no reason to be treating anywhere near 90% of your coins with it (if that's what you meant).

NickelMike

EZest turns copper a funky pink/orange color. They can spot that a mile away.

Maywood

@joeykoins said: Unfortunately, I did inadverntently, soak each cent in EZEST to remove some haze.

And that is the answer to your inquiry. Never, I repeat, NEVER use E-Z-Est on copper/bronze coins because it strips the original red color and tends to render the coin(s) a salmon pink color which is very noticeable. As to the use of the word "inadvertantly" I think you knew exactly what you were doing but were unaware of the results.

On the bright side of things, you seem to becoming more adept at grading and picking coins which are quite nice for certification. Maybe it might be prudent to slow down a little before using chemicals. As a general rule it's always best to use the least reactive substance and that E-Z-Est should always be a last resort.

joeykoins

When I do use the EZEST, I always watered it down. Only to dip for 4-5 seconds!
I even dipped the 5th coin, the 2020W Rockefeller quarter. It hit the ms 67 grade!
I take it carefully. Washing thorough.
Not condoning, just throwing the truth out there in my submissions.
Thanks guys

OAKSTAR

Besides e-Zest (silver only) and acetone, the only other chemical I've used was Verdi-Care. Only on copper. All the copper I've submitted with Verdi-Care have come back straight graded...............thank goodness!

DollarAfterDollar

EZ-Est is like feeding your coins poison. Stop that.

OwenSeymour

Ez est turns copper an artificial “pink” never use ez est on copper

emeraldATV

Dawn
If it's safe for wildlife you must agree with no trouble or strife.
Oh and Dawn dish soap ...Your so cool.

Bochiman

@joeykoins said:
One important aspect of the whole matter.
Unfortunately, I did inadverntently, soak each cent in EZEST to remove some haze.
That appears to have been the color problem? Although, not really too bad at all? It did somewhat discolor the original skin?
That was what PCGS probably noticed?
But, once again, not as terrible as to receive that dreaded, "Questionable Color"
Death mark!

Copper/zinc is very 'touchy'.
Unless you really know what you are doing, you should never do things to it, like any type of dip.

Practice on worthless coins first, if you must try it.

The thing that, perhaps you, and maybe some others, are forgetting is that PCGS has their reputation AND money behind the coins they slab. So, if they slab a coin and it turns in the holder (because you dipped it in something), they are on the hook to pay out for it.
At the higher grades you were going for on these coins, maybe you can see why they didn't "just slab it anyways".

Bochiman

@joeykoins said:
When I do use the EZEST, I always watered it down. Only to dip for 4-5 seconds!
I even dipped the 5th coin, the 2020W Rockefeller quarter. It hit the ms 67 grade!
I take it carefully. Washing thorough.
Not condoning, just throwing the truth out there in my submissions.
Thanks guys

Don't compare copper/zinc to other coin metals. Don't.Do.It.

Jimnight

Questionable color ... On a 2010 cent?

ricko

@JoeyCoins ... You posed the question, and had the answer before you asked. Ezest is a strong solution... and copper is a sensitive element. Cheers, RickO

DCW

At least you got that awesome score with the quarter!
I would have never thought it could bring that kind of money, especially from a dealer. Obviously there is a market for these things.
Happy for you!

Project Numismatics

Congrats on the quarter! First rule of coin collecting - don’t clean your coins! Especially if they are high value and you don’t have experience. Experiment with pocket change and junk first.

jesbroken

Joey,
I feel a message to PCGS with the certification numbers asking for a review and telling them the coins came from new bank roll and if they feel the color is off, why? I definitely would send them back regardless of cost just for satisfaction.
Jim

Tramp

Breaking out and resending would be a waste. If the pennies changed color even slightly because you dipped, graders will see it again, especially given more time than the one day turnaround at a show.

Chalk it up to tuition cost and never dip copper or zinc in e.z.est.

jerseyben

You are seriously going to sink more money into these and try again??? Sorry to be blunt but take the lesson learned (and the L) and move on.

Maywood

@joeykoins said: When I do use the EZEST, I always watered it down. Only to dip for 4-5 seconds! I even dipped the 5th coin, the 2020W Rockefeller quarter.

My question(s) to you is how do you rinse these coins after dipping in E-Z-Est and how soon after dipping are you submitting them to PCGS??

joeykoins

Under hot tap water. For approx 1 minute.
Then, a couple days after to submission.

VanHalen

@joeykoins said:
One important aspect of the whole matter.
Unfortunately, I did inadverntently, soak each cent in EZEST to remove some haze.
That appears to have been the color problem? Although, not really too bad at all? It did somewhat discolor the original skin?
That was what PCGS probably noticed?
But, once again, not as terrible as to receive that dreaded, "Questionable Color"
Death mark!

Using EZEST was the problem. My experience experimenting with EZEST on copper was not good. Cooper coated? Must be not good either.

jesbroken

Oops, I answered before I knew that you had dipped the coins. I thought they were straight out of the bank boxes you always get. I change my statement, do not bother PCGS and do Not return.
Jim

Connecticoin

@joeykoins said:
One important aspect of the whole matter.
Unfortunately, I did inadverntently, soak each cent in EZEST to remove some haze.
That appears to have been the color problem? Although, not really too bad at all? It did somewhat discolor the original skin?
That was what PCGS probably noticed?
But, once again, not as terrible as to receive that dreaded, "Questionable Color"
Death mark!

Yikes, that will result in an unnatural pink. Did you try acetone first? If that does not work, I would try diluted MS70.

coinhack

Just curious. Can you take your graded coins and put them side by side with coins from the roll they came from. How does the color match? Do you feel like the color is the same or do you see a difference?

Maybe you could add a photo of the comparison.

emeraldATV

Question-
Could any type of cleaning with soft solvents surrounding a coin, but not touching a coin, cause a reaction to a coin ?
Example : Leather conditioner

OAKSTAR

@emeraldATV said:
Question-
Could any type of cleaning with soft solvents surrounding a coin, but not touching a coin, cause a reaction to a coin ?
Example : Leather conditioner

I would say yes. Anything that emits fumes, vapors, gas, smoke, exhaust or any type of pollution could or would effect the surface of a coin.

telephoto1

OP I know that you are somewhat newer to the hobby but frankly thought you've been hanging around here enough to learn that dipping any copper coin in compounds like EZest gives it an unnatural look that just screams "cleaned". You got lucky on the quarter because the CN outer layer isn't as reactive. Don't waste any more time or money on resubmission on the cents.

joeykoins

I appreciate all the suggestions and comments guys, really, I do.
Thanks 😊
I'm going g to try it again. With different 2010p cent rolls. The chance to hit that exclusive ms 67, is too good to pass up!