1873-CC Trade Dollar (Update Inside!)

DelawareDoons · April 29, 2023 12:20PM

This one gets two neato-burritos.

Update here!

Full res links;
Obverse
Reverse

Ownerofawheatiehorde · April 29, 2023 12:34PM

Love the look.

lermish · April 29, 2023 12:35PM

Very nice, tough year!

SPalladino · April 29, 2023 12:46PM

Nice! Looks like:

7 – I19/I9 : Slanted 1 / CC Low Tilted Right

Obv - Wide centered date with the 1 slanted left. Rev – Medium CC mint mark, wide (just over a C width separates), set low, both titled left but the right C (under the comma) more so. Rev – Medium CC mint mark set low and tilted right. The C on the right is under the comma and tilted further. Struck with a 5° relative die rotation.

http://registry.ssdcvams.com/Trade/1873-CC_Trade.html

gumby1234 · April 29, 2023 12:50PM

Nice looking coin for the grade.

TennesseeDave · April 29, 2023 2:11PM

I like it. That's one date and mintmark combo I don't have. I sold one here several years ago and never replaced it.

DelawareDoons · April 29, 2023 2:30PM

@TennesseeDave said:
I like it. That's one date and mintmark combo I don't have. I sold one here several years ago and never replaced it.

Tough date, yeah. Sorry you haven't replaced yours yet!

TennesseeDave · April 29, 2023 3:01PM

@DelawareDoons said:
Tough date, yeah. Sorry you haven't replaced yours yet!

I just haven't found the right one at the right price. Prices have skyrocketed in the last few years.

Goldbully · April 29, 2023 4:39PM

I like the original look of your 1873-CC.

Is she graded?

vulcanize · April 29, 2023 5:49PM

@DelawareDoons said:
This one gets two neato-burritos.

Beautiful looking coin. Thanks for sharing.

@TennesseeDave said:
I like it. That's one date and mintmark combo I don't have. I sold one here several years ago and never replaced it.

My first one in the raw for the Dansco came with a hole that was given F 12 details designation by ANACS, Got stuck after subsequent upgrade to VF 25 due to the steep price curve and also because the focus had shifted to landing the proofs by then.

DelawareDoons · April 29, 2023 7:14PM

@Goldbully said:
I like the original look of your 1873-CC.

Is she graded?

Raw, actually.

braddick · April 29, 2023 7:17PM

Nice!
I love the hard, dove gray surfaces.

DoubleEagle59 · April 30, 2023 3:48AM

Here's my problem coin 73-CC.

ricko · April 30, 2023 4:55AM

My 1874CC Trade dollar.... Cheers, RickO

Goldbully · April 30, 2023 5:19AM

I have three CC Trade $1's.....1875, 1877, and here's my 1873..................

AU55 with wide CC Mint mark

mbogoman · April 30, 2023 5:26AM

This date/mm has several varieties for the aficionado:

MPD FS-301 VF20 (also the 1.2mm "Wide CC"):

MPD FS-302 VF25:

XF45 CAC:

DelawareDoons · April 30, 2023 6:34AM

Thanks to all for chiming in and/or sharing their own examples of this tough date!

I think enough people have participated for me to now reveal that the example I posted in my first post is a transfer die counterfeit. I was curious to see if anybody would catch it, that's why I directly linked the super high resolution shots.

There are some cropped images below with a brief discussion on what I'm seeing. Though the coin has far more issues than I could highlight, there's repeaters (damage to the host coin that was replicated on the transfer dies) everywhere. As far as transfer die counterfeits go, it's decently well done, but still relatively crude compared to the stuff that comes through the grading rooms these days.

Die scratches coming out of the denticles. Common from tooling the transfer dies prior to production.

While the Sea Foam is a nice touch, it's not part of the original design, and is a remnant of the transfer die process.

Repeaters, or indentations of damage from the original coin that were transferred to the counterfeit dies.

Weird bumps coming out of the denticles, as well as some wormy raised bumps in the fields

Another wormy mark, as well as one of many struck through wire/thread fragments on this example

Raised dots, or pimples, all over the coin. More numerous on the reverse than obverse.

Tooling marks in the denticles. While these do exist on business strikes, they're almost never this prominent nor this concentrated

Relatively large repeater indication, as well as another struck through

Very peculiar area with the rim/denticle deformation. I theorize the host coin had a nasty rim bump here that was repaired on the transfer dies.

Yet another wormy raised mark and more repeaters

This is a fantastic teaching piece due to the preponderance of transfer die issues present, and I'll be keeping it for that purpose.

mbogoman · April 30, 2023 7:18AM

Wow! I didn't even look at the high res pics. Very interesting for sure!

gumby1234 · April 30, 2023 8:32AM

I didn't know there were hi resolution pics. I thought the coin looked a bit too clean for the grade.

lermish · April 30, 2023 9:08AM

@mbogoman said:
Wow! I didn't even look at the high res pics. Very interesting for sure!

+1, but I'm not sure I would have caught it regardless, well done counterfeit.

braddick · April 30, 2023 9:24AM

Well, this is slightly embarrassing. . .

Shurke · April 30, 2023 9:34AM

Maybe it’s just a photo-vs-in-hand thing, but how do you tell a repeater from a legit contact mark?

I’m looking at these photos and thinking—absent the other die transfer indicators—none of repeaters would have raised red flags for me.

Walkerguy21D · April 30, 2023 10:05AM

Extremely deceptive, thank you for posting this.

DelawareDoons · April 30, 2023 10:24AM

@Shurke said:
Maybe it’s just a photo-vs-in-hand thing, but how do you tell a repeater from a legit contact mark?

I’m looking at these photos and thinking—absent the other die transfer indicators—none of repeaters would have raised red flags for me.

Repeaters lack metal movement. Actual hits will have moved metal.

Ownerofawheatiehorde · April 30, 2023 10:44AM

@DelawareDoons said:
Thanks to all for chiming in and/or sharing their own examples of this tough date!

I thought something was off, but I trusted you. (Big mistake!) Very good counterfeit, fooled me.

DelawareDoons · April 30, 2023 10:49AM

@Ownerofawheatiehorde said:

@DelawareDoons said:
Thanks to all for chiming in and/or sharing their own examples of this tough date!

I thought something was off, but I trusted you. (Big mistake!) Very good counterfeit, fooled me.

TennesseeDave · April 30, 2023 1:23PM

It never crossed my mind that it was not a genuine piece. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Shurke · April 30, 2023 2:56PM

@DelawareDoons said:
Repeaters lack metal movement. Actual hits will have moved metal.

Thanks. Appreciate the tip.

jesbroken · April 30, 2023 4:54PM

Never considered it a counterfeit, but thought the face looked mishapen then saw the hires photos and saw it was just beatup. I felt the color somewhat different than most. Thanks for the info.
Jim