@daltex said:
Since it doesn't say "COPY" on the coin, isn't that illegal?
Yes, it is illegal. As to the comment not illegal if made before 1973, how would one know if this piece was made before or after 1973? Another case has been presented here for the collector without gobs of experience (which is most of us) to ALWAYS buy only key date coins that have been certified by one of the big four TPG's. I've added ICG to the list of trusted authenticators. ICG can be trusted to do accurate authentication opinions along with PCGS, NGC, and ANACS. Maybe it's just me but I have no sympathy for one who plunks down such serious money (over $1000) for a raw piece like this and later finds out it's fake. If this piece was genuine, it would sell for far more than $1000, raw or slabbed, no matter. That's the first thing for this piece's buyer to learn. The second thing for the buyer to learn is that as a reproduction, legal or not, it's worth no more than $20 or so. $20 to include "free" shipping. My opinion,tifwiw.
And for $20 I need to think it (appears to be a fairly skillfully made casting to me) was made using coin silver. It would be fun to do a specific gravity test on the OP piece to determine if 90% silver, 10% copper. J.P. Martin shows folks how to do their own S.G. test, showing the math calculations involved, in "Detecting Counterfeit and Altered U.S. Coins", a production of The American Numismatic Association. The subject piece of this thread is kind of interesting as a curiousity. That's what would make it worth $20 (tops) to me to own. It's akin to my slabbed 1909-S V.D.B. penny which of course I bought as genuine only to find out later it's a counterfeit (acid etched added V.D.B.) made with a genuine 1909-S without V.D.B. cent. I no longer own this skillfully made counterfeit piece because I needed to surrender it to the TPG that certified it, to take advantage of the TPG's guarantee of authenticity, a forever guarantee. Collecting $1000 cost-to-me curiousities is well above my pay grade. I like to think the S V.D.B. counterfeit I bought and subsequently surrendered to the TPG is still in the slab I bought it in, being used as a teaching tool for new hire professional graders/authenticators.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@CoinHoarder said:
Personally, I still don't understand why somebody would buy a key date coin, or expensive coin, that has not already been certified by a major TPGS.
Some collectors want to purchase coins raw so they can plug them in to their coin books.
Of course, it's a gamble if you don't do a little research about the coin.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
Independence and self sufficiency in all phases of the life of a person (who has full mental and physical abilities) provides one with the best opportunity to "live a good life".
independence and self sufficiency should be encouraged and nurtured so it will grow in number across society (local, national and global). Independence and self sufficiency requires drive, determination, hard work and education.
Education can be obtained through "book learnin" and from "doing".
Everyone who "tries" will fail and will succeed. Those who do not "try" will neither fail or succeed.
People learn more from their failures than they do from their successes.
The best way to "save people from themselves" is to encourage them to "try" (while offering guidance from those with knowledge and experience; without any expectation that the recipient of the guidance will choose to accept same). If one does choose to "try" he/she will benefit and learn from successes and from failure.
You can educate some of the people some of the time, but you can’t educate all of the people all of the time. Just look at some of the lunatics and special needs posters that show up here with “rarities”.
I look at the HPA the same way I look at a padlock; all it does is keep honest people honest. All the makers of the Asian fakes like the one presented in the OP don't know or care about the HPA. Even if it was enforceable, what's to stop someone from saying they're from a hoard from 1958 or something? Ridiculous. The only way to stop these is to cut them off at the source, and as long as their parent country doesn't care...well... the battle rages on.
@johnny9434 said:
Experience can be our best teacher (in most cases)
Many collectors are lost to the hobby forever after they discover that they were ripped-off by someone who sold them a counterfeit rare coin.
Except many of those collectors should look in the mirror. I've met two collectors who bought counterfeit gold coins from Facebook. Both found out AFTER they asked a local dealer to authenticate. Both of them knew about local dealers and the local coin club but preferred to take their chances on a bargain.
The one guy didn't even carry a scale with him. The dealer knew it was fake before looking at it because it was 30% light and he could feel it when just picking it up.
@CoinHoarder said:
Personally, I still don't understand why somebody would buy a key date coin, or expensive coin, that has not already been certified by a major TPGS.
Some collectors want to purchase coins raw so they can plug them in to their coin books.
Of course, it's a gamble if you don't do a little research about the coin.
Pete
There's the Dremel solution for those who want to get that key date coin out of the slab and into their album. Break that piece out of it's slab though the price you pay is losing the forever guarantee of authenticity.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
If you stop someone from sticking the scissors in the live outlet they'll never learn.
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
Comments
Yes, it is illegal. As to the comment not illegal if made before 1973, how would one know if this piece was made before or after 1973? Another case has been presented here for the collector without gobs of experience (which is most of us) to ALWAYS buy only key date coins that have been certified by one of the big four TPG's. I've added ICG to the list of trusted authenticators. ICG can be trusted to do accurate authentication opinions along with PCGS, NGC, and ANACS. Maybe it's just me but I have no sympathy for one who plunks down such serious money (over $1000) for a raw piece like this and later finds out it's fake. If this piece was genuine, it would sell for far more than $1000, raw or slabbed, no matter. That's the first thing for this piece's buyer to learn. The second thing for the buyer to learn is that as a reproduction, legal or not, it's worth no more than $20 or so. $20 to include "free" shipping. My opinion,tifwiw.
And for $20 I need to think it (appears to be a fairly skillfully made casting to me) was made using coin silver. It would be fun to do a specific gravity test on the OP piece to determine if 90% silver, 10% copper. J.P. Martin shows folks how to do their own S.G. test, showing the math calculations involved, in "Detecting Counterfeit and Altered U.S. Coins", a production of The American Numismatic Association. The subject piece of this thread is kind of interesting as a curiousity. That's what would make it worth $20 (tops) to me to own. It's akin to my slabbed 1909-S V.D.B. penny which of course I bought as genuine only to find out later it's a counterfeit (acid etched added V.D.B.) made with a genuine 1909-S without V.D.B. cent. I no longer own this skillfully made counterfeit piece because I needed to surrender it to the TPG that certified it, to take advantage of the TPG's guarantee of authenticity, a forever guarantee. Collecting $1000 cost-to-me curiousities is well above my pay grade. I like to think the S V.D.B. counterfeit I bought and subsequently surrendered to the TPG is still in the slab I bought it in, being used as a teaching tool for new hire professional graders/authenticators.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Some collectors want to purchase coins raw so they can plug them in to their coin books.
Of course, it's a gamble if you don't do a little research about the coin.
Pete
Independence and self sufficiency in all phases of the life of a person (who has full mental and physical abilities) provides one with the best opportunity to "live a good life".
independence and self sufficiency should be encouraged and nurtured so it will grow in number across society (local, national and global). Independence and self sufficiency requires drive, determination, hard work and education.
Education can be obtained through "book learnin" and from "doing".
Everyone who "tries" will fail and will succeed. Those who do not "try" will neither fail or succeed.
People learn more from their failures than they do from their successes.
The best way to "save people from themselves" is to encourage them to "try" (while offering guidance from those with knowledge and experience; without any expectation that the recipient of the guidance will choose to accept same). If one does choose to "try" he/she will benefit and learn from successes and from failure.
My 2 cents.
You can educate some of the people some of the time, but you can’t educate all of the people all of the time. Just look at some of the lunatics and special needs posters that show up here with “rarities”.
I look at the HPA the same way I look at a padlock; all it does is keep honest people honest. All the makers of the Asian fakes like the one presented in the OP don't know or care about the HPA. Even if it was enforceable, what's to stop someone from saying they're from a hoard from 1958 or something? Ridiculous. The only way to stop these is to cut them off at the source, and as long as their parent country doesn't care...well... the battle rages on.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Except many of those collectors should look in the mirror. I've met two collectors who bought counterfeit gold coins from Facebook. Both found out AFTER they asked a local dealer to authenticate. Both of them knew about local dealers and the local coin club but preferred to take their chances on a bargain.
The one guy didn't even carry a scale with him. The dealer knew it was fake before looking at it because it was 30% light and he could feel it when just picking it up.
There's the Dremel solution for those who want to get that key date coin out of the slab and into their album. Break that piece out of it's slab though the price you pay is losing the forever guarantee of authenticity.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
So I suppose many of you would say let the buyer choke on this one?
If you stop someone from sticking the scissors in the live outlet they'll never learn.
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
Sorry, but that is about stupid...
Did it get poofed? I was going to report it but cannot find it.
Yes, reported...
But there are thousands out there just as unwitted. We have the Jefferson Nickel series to see that.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Look at it like this.
...Carma with integrity.
And if you can't ?
Your the one who has to live with it.
Unfortunately many will pay tuition. It’s a constant like gravity - if there is engine failure of the flight it will fall. Many will crash and burn.