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Newp 1852-O Double Eagle …raw
johnny010
Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭✭✭
Ordered from an auction house overseas.
Thoughts now that I’ve received it. Any input is welcome.
Hard to pick up the sheen, so I posted it next to two others I have that are slabbed.
How did I do?
11
Comments
Looks nice, but i guess how you did would largely depend upon what you paid, which we don't know.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Looks like a nice AU50 coin. Definitly worth getting slabbed by one of the top tier grading services.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
In hand it looks much more similar to my proof like. I couldn’t get the sheen in a picture or video but it’s there.
I paid $5400 approximately
It looks (approximately) AU55 to me.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You could be right. I'm usually conservative when grading from pics since there may be something not showing up in the pics that may limit the grade.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
It looks mid AU to me as well, and Im not seeing anything that would preclude a straight grade. Definitely get her in some plastic, but I think you may have some nice upside on this one. Overseas auctions.....hmm 🤔
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Understood, but that can always be the case and all we have to go on is the pictures provided.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Those gloves are freaking me out.
DOG acolyte
The gloves remind me of those movies "Hostel something" shot in Europe where the psychos are cutting up their victims, they all are wearing protective covering due to all the blood & guts flying around. The coin however is sweet, take the gloves off and hold the darn coin like a true collector......;).
Looks AU50 to me as well. Definitely get it graded.
Hard to tell from the pics.. Would be in a hurry to get it graded. Express at least. Why didn't they get it graded before selling, there are grading branches in Europe right?
Here's an AU53 that appears to have more wear than the coin in this thread - see slabbed shots:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/liberty-double-eagles/1852-o-20-au53-pcgs-variety-1-pcgs-8907-/a/1347-4115.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
When's the last time he changed them? Probably leaving more funk than a fingerprint at this point.
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
New gloves
My wife put them on to help hold the coin. We didn’t have any cotton ones.
As for getting it graded I’ll get it sent out. I like it much better than expected next to my higher grade coins. 🤔
Here is a picture from the host, which oddly enough doesn’t look much like the coin in hand.
The auction images are overexposed.
However, I am honestly curious why you would wear gloves when handling coins. I've never worn gloves when handling coins and think they might actually make me more likely to drop a coin if I would handle them that way. At least, I would suspect cotton gloves would make it more likely to drop a coin. Laboratory gloves, which I have worn for decades in labs, are not something I would use, either.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Do you mind telling us the auction house, nice coin.
I've often wondered what our fellow forumites do for entertainment when they're not here. This seems like about what I would have guessed.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
If it were my coin, I would conserve it by carefully soaking it in some pure acetone to get rid of the dirt and grime. Acetone won't hurt the coin and if it's on the borderline between two grades such as between AU53 and AU55, the resulting brighter luster and the improved appearance may bump it to the higher grade. After you get it graded, please let us know the results.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
It has the look of old European bag-handled gold coins.
Visually it would fit right in with the Fairmont coins recently on the market.
The photos are overexposed indeed. Overexposed photos tend to hide small marks, which this coin seems to have an abundance of. I would call the coin AU with excessive marks for the grade.
I've heard this dirty look as being called "Euro-dirt" and it's not unusual to be found on gold coins repatriated from Europe. I'm not certain how popular this dirty look is with collectors though. Also, it makes me wonder about the hygiene of Europeans.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Nice old gold.... Give it a good acetone bath and send it off to be graded. Good luck and be sure to report back here when done. Cheers, RickO
In regards to “why the gloves” I did a quick search (two minutes worth) and didn’t find much other than one post where someone has gloves on (here) so I went with it. Assuming gloves aren’t necessary. Thanks for the call out.
As for the acetone, I’ve read it needs to be pure acetone and I’ve not found any that seemingly meets the requirements of what I’ve seen described here. If someone has a recommendation on a product you’ve used successfully I’ll take the information.
To check the purity of acetone, you can put a drop of the acetone on a mirror and check the surface after it evaporates. If it doesn't leave any residue, it's pure enough to conserve coins. If you want to be super cautious, you can always rinse the coin with distilled water after the acetone conservation.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Thank you @PerryHall
Will post updated photos.
the thing about gloves is that it's easier to drop a coin with them on i think.
as for the double eagle, it looks like you got a solid buy. it's a nice looking coin and you paid a decent price. i would definitely get it in a slab. maybe this is a good one to send to CAC when they start grading? i mean PCGS...yeah. PCGS. 👀
You can get acetone at Home Depot or other hardware store.
It's beautiful as is. Please don't acetone it.
Disagree. That coin's real beauty is hiding under that dirt and grime. Acetone will not hurt a gold coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
It might be an enormous mistake to treat that coin with acetone.
While acetone itself will do nothing to the metal, you will irreversibly alter the appearance of the coin by removing the thin layer of dirt or grime on it. I am a big fan of non-invasive handling and owning of coins, and while removing a thin layer of surface dirt might be completely non-invasive, it also changes the appearance in a way you can't change back. Essentially, you will be taking a coin with light dirt and a large collector base to a coin that may look processed with a different collector base. You can't go back.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Please leave this one as it is...
If you enhance it, it becomes one of the many that suffered a similar fate. This is a great coin as it stands in its original state of preservation.
If you don't like it please sell it to someone else that will appreciate this coin for what it is. Don't destroy the coin by doing something that is literally stupid and ill-advised.
A no-motto gold coin with an undisturbed look has it a respected place in numismatics.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
@PerryHall
LOL sadly was the only option... how can you write something as subjective and ridiculous when the original surviving population of coins such as this is nearly extinct? Would it not have been far more responsible to suggest selling this coin instead of trying to enhance it to make it look like all the other processed No Motto gold that already exists?
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I guess some people like dirt on their coins. I'm against removing toning from old silver coins because it's part of the coin's surface. The dirt and grime on this coin are resting on the surface of the coin and isn't really a part of the coin like toning would be. One option would be to let the experts at PCGS conserve it since you will be sending it there anyway for grading and slabbing. It wouldn't surprise if there wasn't some brilliant luster hiding under that grime.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
leave it as is. we don't need to mess with coins like this. what's on it is what gives it character...this coin is not in high grade condition so it doesn't need to be shiny. it should be as is
Nice job @johnny010, I'm stoked it arrived safely and worked out well for you. Make sure to update us when it gets back from PCGS.
It looks a bit scuffy. If you acetone it may reveal deeper scuffs. I would leave it alone.
A circulated coin is a circulated coin and no restoration will change that. Instead and in this instance, any effort to enhance it merely strips the coin of its its DNA- where it has been and why it looks the way it does. It has nothing to do with liking dirt but everything to do with owning a coin in its original state that served its intended purpose-entering commerce and essentially making history. Some prefer this look over the sterile look of a coin that has been processed. And processed seems to be a more fitting term than enhanced.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Exactly what I was thinking as I rolled over the post!
I am thinking AU-55 no CAC.
Edited to add: After re-examining after a couple months, I think I am going to revise my estimate to AU53.
Although it is a really nice coin, just don’t think it will sticker.
I would leave the coin alone and submit as is. I don’t see any dirt or black stuff on your pictures. You always have the option to dip it in acetone at a later point.
Europe is the only place (with a few exceptions such as one instance in Argentina) where bags of US gold coins have been kicked around a vault for 100+ years. This coin has the typical look of that. Such things didn't exist in the United States after April 1933.
Looks like you did well. Nice old gold. It sounds like you may have to be patient but it will be interested in your resulting grade... Good luck on your submission.
Mark
I hope you haven't bought the acetone yet... as someone mentioned already, there is a solid collector base for "dirty old gold".
Clean it and it'll never be a dog again.
I think it is an AU53, I like old dirty girls. Remember someone can always clean it but you can't reverse it. I would keep her the same - just my take.
Here is an AU55 that is a little better:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/liberty-double-eagles/double-eagles/1852-o-20-au55-pcgs-variety-1-pcgs-8907-/a/1316-3742.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
CDN is around $7600 in AU53 and $9000 in 55 with cac coins bringing significantly more.
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1852-o-20/8907#:~:text=The 1852-O is the second most available double,and it is very scarce in About Uncirculated-58.
No acetone yet. I was on the way to the store and saw more opinions which make sense, so I’ll send in as is.
Your link at the end explains why it looks more similar to my proof like.
I'd send it either express or registered to PCGS and mark outside of the package "Walkthrough" or "Express" so they open it quickly and get it in cue.
So... was this coin submitted and graded?
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
No, not yet.
I put it in my life chest at home. Unfortunately between work and life and more work I haven’t gotten to much lately.
It’s on my to do list after we get moved in June.
Nice looking coin!