NN: "How big of a concern is safety/security to you? Why?"
Goldbully
Posts: 17,532 ✭✭✭✭✭
Sounds like the community is looking for a discussion. I know this topic has been forefront on this forum.
What are your thoughts?
e-letters April 19, 2023
How big of a concern is safety/security to you? Why?
Numismatic News Staff
How big of a concern is safety/security to you? Why?
I am very concerned for my safety/security when attending even a minor coin show.
I believe that there should be a photo I.D. check-in when going in to the show and that there should be an off-duty, uniformed police presence at the check-in point.
George Kissinger
Spooner, Wis.
Very concerned.
Name and address withheld
Safety and security is of a major concern to me because I spend time and money on my collection and don't want to lose it to a thief.
Dave Burdis
Charleroi, Pa.
Being a collector attending shows, to purchase or sell coins, I always travel with a group of collector friends. We park adjacent to the show in well-lit and easily accessible areas. That said, we are always aware of our surroundings. The old adage, "don't walk down a dark alley at night in an area you don't know," still applies. Safety/security is always a consideration. Always be vigilant.
Lorne Lavertu
Herndon, Va.
I have had two occasions when coins were mailed but not received, and I can only conclude they were stolen in the mail.
On one occasion, I was going through my foreign coins and pulled out about 75 common date circulated coins that were duplicates. I decided my grandchildren might enjoy them so I put them in a plastic P.O. mailing envelope and put that in a cardboard flat rate box. They never arrived.
Continues in link.................https://www.numismaticnews.net/community/e-letters-april-18-2023
Comments
I spent 3 years living in Europe and never once felt insecure, nor threatened in any way. That was 50 years ago. I wouldn't go overseas anywhere now for free and there are quite a few states I would no longer visit. That is sad. I hitchhiked several thousand miles in the late 60's early 70's, here and in Europe without a concern. We most certainly live in a different world and most assuredly security is foremost when traveling, at least with me. I think when going to an event that money is the most prevalent purpose, that one should most certainly be concerned with security, as, trust me, the crooks are certainly going to be there.
As to the mail, in the last year I have sold 3 or 4 $400+ coins, I shipped them all in a cardboard tube. All arrived in good condition, even the tubes and not a likely item for a thief to suspect might hold coins. Just a thought.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Morals, Respect and Accountability are slowly dissipating in this country. It seems that safety & security is becoming the new norm for honest citizens. No matter what venue you attend or daily activity you seek, it seems you now have to split your time with enjoyment and watching your surroundings.
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
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I would never attend a show that was recording ID's at the door. Too many unknowns as to who has access to the information, and what they plan to do with it after the show.
Back during the covid nonsense, I went to a show that was having everyone attending sign in on a notebook with your name and phone number, for "contract tracing". Granted, it was most likely a local ordinance that they were being forced to comply with, but I wasn't comfortable putting that info in a notebook that every member of the public attending the show had access to. I ended up putting just my first name and a fake phone number down, and the guy at the table called me back saying he needed a last name. I told him I wasn't comfortable and why. I finally just put Smith or Jones or something just to make him happy, but he was totally clueless as to why I was concerned.
For safety, rule 1911 condition 1 applies.
USAF (Ret) 1974 - 1994 - The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Remembering RickO, a brother in arms.
Every coin show should have some type of law enforcement presence at the door and only one access point for the general public. I would not attend a show which requires an ID recorded to enter.
Slowly??? I agree with your sentiment, but it is rapidly deteriorating. We, as a nation need to correct this trend.
Now that a significant portion of the population is emboldened to break the law with little consequence, security is a big deal for me as a senior citizen. I would be an easy mark outside the venue as I move pretty slow with a bad knee.
There are multiple security situations involved. I don't worry too much inside the venue as security is normal these days. It is the trip to and from the venue that worries me the most. Uncle Sig accompanies me most of the time except for when he is denied entry to a show. In those cases, that show is dropped from my schedule due to discrimination.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Being aware of your surroundings and being vigilant is definitely a key, whether going to a coin show or a gas station.
Photo ID at the door is pretty useless and would be a waste of time. Sort of like still having to take of your shoes at the airport, it doesn't make anything more secure.
As for the posts saying "things ain't like they used to be, everything is going downhill, poor morals", all they made me do is spray coffee thru my nose. It's been going on for generations, going way back:
https://bbc.com/worklife/article/20171003-proof-that-people-have-always-complained-about-young-adults
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
It’s everything. Looking out for number 1 is critical.
At shows loading and unloading my stuff possibly most vulnerable to attack / robbery. Traveling one has to be on the ball. Inside the bourseroom keep cases locked if leaving table. Be in control when behind table at all times. Once their BS starts, it’s time for them to leave.
We live in a different world than decades ago.
Survival the most important of the hierarchy - Survival / Financial / Lifestyle.
It’s worth considering whether the world has really changed that much, or if you and your perceptions have. Do you remember your parents and grandparents lamenting the same thing as they got older? Would 20-year-old you really be scared to go to Europe now?
Safety and security are always important. But as students of history, we should try to avoid falling into generational cliches.
This is no longer your parents or grandparents America!
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
The world has changed a lot since criminals are far less likely to be prosecuted these days than they were in the past and they know that they can get away with a lot more without any serious consequences.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The numismatic hobbyists are pretty much a known entity in a particular area and those really not into the hobby looking for an opportunity to steal should stand out and all necessary measures should be employed to that end. People are at a coin show to either buy or sell with some that go to visit with their friends. Those who are not there for those things should be watched to observe their behavior. I wouldn't want to create a surveillance society but the thefts could ruin the business and hobby if they get much worse.
I just got this update on thefts at the NH show last weekend:
Please don't steal at our shows. We will prosecute fully. Just ask E***** from Vermont who was caught by Granite Security Service LLC officers stealing from 3 different dealers at our Nashua show on April 16. (All individuals are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.)
As concerned as I am about theft, a far greater concern is the flood of quality counterfeits including many in counterfeit slabs that seem to be flooding our hobby. Caveat emptor.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
One chooses to live in fear, and the vast majority of people make that choice. I have been to several parts of Africa, the Middle East, and most of Europe, all without fear. Crime has been a part of humanity since the dawn of time, and simple precautions will keep one away from it in the vast number of cases. When I attend coin shows, which admittingly is not often, I bring no valuables. When I walk or travel, I look ahead and not at the ground. I have no interest in fear, there is a big world out there, get out and see it, and a coin show or two along the way.
As for this country, the lack of moral fiber and the only me mentality has signed the death warrant for the United States of America. It will not live to see the 300th Anniversary. Study your history, all "great" empires fell due in large part to moral and civic decay, this country is no different.
Cliches? Lol We have riots in the streets to stop the building of a criminal center that would help stop crime. We have the generation that lives to video a police officer arresting a criminal in a matter they don't like. Police officers are advised not to chase criminals anymore due to public safety. Where's the safety of the public with letting the criminals go? There are laws being pushed every day to take guns away from law abiding citizens while shootings go on every day by criminals killing law abiding citizens. Ask yourself this, When you can no longer own a self defense weapon, how are you going to protect your home, yourself and/or your family?? When you can no longer own a self defense weapon, what's to stop a criminal from attacking your home, yourself and/or your family?
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
There are levels of security. Show security - provided by the sponsors - is primary, and secures both dealers and attendees while at the show. If done properly, thieves can be apprehended as they operate, but the presence of armed officers deters a lot. Then there is personal security... Awareness, behavior, training, defensive equipment. Up to the individuals, but I recommend it to all, especially those traveling with inventory and sums of money. Without security, you are a target. Cheers, RickO
At coin shows. do any dealers use security cameras at their table to deter theft from their cases?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
the wooster ma. show has 2 retired cops walking around the show (by sponser} its good to know they is there. 1 other show they police them selfs, fwiw. the cyoa policy might be a good thing (bring a buddy)
I went to the spring show in Baltimore, and I would venture to say 50% or more of the tables had security cams.
"How big of a concern is safety/security to you? Why?"
Not much at all. I carry a .45 and a "K-bar" EVERYWHERE I go.
I think this is a far bigger problem.
I would rather join with an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by sheep.
If I were to list 100 things that concern me, my personal safety at coins shows would not make the list.
sounds like you woke up the get off my lawn crowd ....
Along these lines, something I'd like to see. Coin show listings that allow concealed carry providing you follow state laws. I hate to travel several hours to a show to find that although I'm in compliance with the law, the show or venue itself doesn't allow CCW. .45 or 38 stays in the car. Inside the bourse not as concerning. Getting to and from my vehicle is the problem. Issue came up at Baltimore a few years ago. Maybe it was nothing but, while walking to my truck I noticed a couple young men walking paralell to me across the street. When they crossed to my side and still behind me I stopped, backed into a closed store front and had my hand in my jacket pocket as if I was carrying. They walked past without even a glance. Problem was, I had an empty pocket. No issue, but still an uneasy feeling.
Very important and on the forefront of everything I do.
But there’s a difference between vigilance and fear.
Prepare yourself for what you’d do in specific situations and know warning signs and risks.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Stay alert coming and going, especially if you are carrying a backpack full of coins. You’re a potential target.
Stay safe,
Dave
Another important point which should be common sense to most. Before you walk off the show floor for the last time, remove and toss any badge/bracelet they have you wear while inside.
Well, if you're in compliance and the weapon is concealed, who's going to know?
my 2¢...............................
I would rather join with an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by sheep.
I'm surprised that the respondents to the NN e-letter are concerned about security, yet still provide their full name and city of residence.
Apparently the guy who got arrested had a dog in his car. Animal control had to be called. I hope the pup finds a better home than he had with the crook.
He will be having a number of court hearings in his future very likely. Some jurisdictions are harder than others.
We don't know the circumstances that led to this man's acts of desperation. I look forward to his confessing his crimes and a merciful justice system that will try to rehabilitate him and find him work so he stays out of trouble.
none
I invite you to explore a selection of coins for sale at the link provided below.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LmQTZyt2cqSrxqc89
If a venue restricts concealed carry, and one would get discovered carrying they could lose the right to carry concealed and I'm not willing to risk that. Not willing to break the law.
First of all that's not breaking a law, that's breaking a policy. Big difference. If some how your weapon is exposed and you are asked to leave, so be it. I'd still rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
Two more ¢'s...................................
I would rather join with an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by sheep.
Nobody is saying "get off my lawn". Most are saying "Keep your hands off of what's not yours"
Back in the old days, gunslingers kept our towns pretty safe. Thieves were shot on the spot. Shooters were deputized.
I once heard a lawman say: " an armed society is a polite society". Wonder why wonderboy ?
I don't know how many times we have to warn and remind folks.
Please keep your politics off this forum.
THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO RELEASE YOUR POLITICAL FRUSTRATIONS.
This is a place for coin collectors and folks interested in the hobby to congregate and escape the divisive political world that is so easily accessible. Please respect that and take your political concerns to another place online where that culture is nurtured, not this forum.